Official Game Thread: Oklahoma State vs. Tulsa

[EdmondPoke]

Maybe its just chess & checkers right now.
Utah may have delusional fans but their coaches are not. Gundy and company may work on things for ooc and then have the new wrinkles for conf play. Alot of the Arky game was execution from Bowman & the rec'rs. I think for ooc they were just taking what the defense was scheming for while aiming for Gundy's hardheaded attachment to "balance".

I genuinely hope so, but I guess we'll see. The truth is that OOC means absolutely nothing anymore, so maybe we are holding things back. You could go 0-3 in OOC and still make the playoffs. I just don't know- it seems like we're not executing some pretty basic things. The good news is that our receivers did really well yesterday. I think I counted one dropped pass? That was good to see and I was happy to see Stribling go off yesterday on what could've been an even bigger day had his first 30 yard catch not been called back for holding.

 

[OrangeFanatic2]

The only problem with that theory is the ILB wasn't even in the play. The DE is the one who made the TFL. There were also no pullers for Ollie to follow. This is a pretty standard "power read" run play in the gap scheme. Michalski was in a bad position, almost as if he forgot that he had a TE coming across the formation to seal off the high side, the DE got under him and was able to hit Ollie in the backfield.

Ultimately, my point is though that our fan base has had the same three criticisms for years now: o-line, the use of the Cowboy Back/TE, and an uninspiring and at times predictable offensive scheme. All three of those were on display yesterday. If we want to win the B12, there's going to need to be substantial improvement on the offensive side of the ball.

Oh, and one last thought: Ollie is absolutely missing the lanes when they do open up. I don't know if it's because he's not confident in his o-line that they'll be there, or what it is, but he's missing the mark. He's got all the talent you could want, and we're largely not taking full advantage of what he's capable of doing, but he needs to improve in that regard.

Yes, there was. The TE comes in motion, ball snaps and guard pulls to kick the DE (DE closes down hard) which tells the guard to pin him. The TE (other puller) now needs to widen to roll up to playside IlB, who is in fact standing right there, as he scraped over. If the TE does widens and Ollie adjust his path to follow him, it’s set up for a really nice gain.

The scheme was good. Part of the execution was good and part wasn’t. Lots of areas to improve in. Better get some of it fixed this week or Utah will be an L. Have to be able to run the ball some.

 

[Herecomesbullet]

Podcast covering The Tulsa game just Dropped. OSU had a big day, but there are still some questions that need to get answered as they enter a HUGE part of their schedule.

Chase Wetwiska joins & we talk all about it, would love for you to check it out.
Link

#GoPokes #OkState

 

[EdmondPoke]

Yes, there was. The TE comes in motion, ball snaps and guard pulls to kick the DE (DE closes down hard) which tells the guard to pin him. The TE (other puller) now needs to widen to roll up to playside IlB, who is in fact standing right there, as he scraped over. If the TE does widens and Ollie adjust his path to follow him, it’s set up for a really nice gain.

The scheme was good. Part of the execution was good and part wasn’t. Lots of areas to improve in. Better get some of it fixed this week or Utah will be an L. Have to be able to run the ball some.

My brother in Christ.. the LB is right here:

If, as you say, the design is to have the TE go outside of the seal block to get to the LB, then that's the worst design ever. But the fact of the matter is that he's still not even beyond the LOS. By the time he gets to the backfield, the DE is already in contact with Ollie.

 

[OrangeFanatic2]

My brother in Christ.. the LB is right here:
View attachment 7203
If, as you say, the design is to have the TE go outside of the seal block to get to the LB, then that's the worst design ever. But the fact of the matter is that he's still not even beyond the LOS. By the time he gets to the backfield, the DE is already in contact with Ollie.

My brother in Christ, I’m not saying the ILB made the TFL. I’m saying that the TE is responsible for him. When DE close down the line of scrimmage on down blocks, the pulling guard has to now pin him inside due to not being able to kick him out. The OTHER puller (TE in this case) now has to go around the guard who pinned the DE inside to roll up to that ILB. If you want to say that the pulling guard did a bad job of pinning the DE, I’d agree. Hence me saying earlier that I agree we have to get better. But scheme wise and responsibility, they did what they were suppose to do. EXCEPT the TE did get wide enough and Ollie didn’t either.

No, it’s not the worst scheme in the world. Because you can’t simply understand it doesn’t mean it’s a bad scheme.

I’m not arguing anymore, you’re flat out wrong. No other way to put it. And it also wasn’t power read.

 

[Osucowboy79]

My brother in Christ, I’m not saying the ILB made the TFL. I’m saying that the TE is responsible for him. When DE close down the line of scrimmage on down blocks, the pulling guard has to now pin him inside due to not being able to kick him out. The OTHER puller (TE in this case) now has to go around the guard who pinned the DE inside to roll up to that ILB. If you want to say that the pulling guard did a bad job of pinning the DE, I’d agree. Hence me saying earlier that I agree we have to get better. But scheme wise and responsibility, they did what they were suppose to do. EXCEPT the TE did get wide enough and Ollie didn’t either.

No, it’s not the worst scheme in the world. Because you can’t simply understand it doesn’t mean it’s a bad scheme.

I’m not arguing anymore, you’re flat out wrong. No other way to put it. And it also wasn’t power read.

TE play should improve the most as the weeks go by. Both Ford and Foster will get better with reps in our offense. JJ took a few weeks before he turned into a weapon last year. Just need one of them to get there.

 

[EdmondPoke]

My brother in Christ, I’m not saying the ILB made the TFL. I’m saying that the TE is responsible for him. When DE close down the line of scrimmage on down blocks, the pulling guard has to now pin him inside due to not being able to kick him out. The OTHER puller (TE in this case) now has to go around the guard who pinned the DE inside to roll up to that ILB. If you want to say that the pulling guard did a bad job of pinning the DE, I’d agree. Hence me saying earlier that I agree we have to get better. But scheme wise and responsibility, they did what they were suppose to do. EXCEPT the TE did get wide enough and Ollie didn’t either.

No, it’s not the worst scheme in the world. Because you can’t simply understand it doesn’t mean it’s a bad scheme.

I’m not arguing anymore, you’re flat out wrong. No other way to put it. And it also wasn’t power read.

Okay.. that literally was my initial statement. Michalski did a piss poor job sealing the back end. You started critiquing that and saying stuff that wasn't relevant to the play at hand.

It's not the worst scheme, but the point you were illiterately trying to make was what I was pointing out would be the worst scheme in the world. I understand the gap scheme, thank you. We executed it poorly, which was stated very clearly in my first post. I'm glad you're doing arguing because whatever point you're trying to make is not forming coherently.

 

[OrangeFanatic2]

TE play should improve the most as the weeks go by. Both Ford and Foster will get better with reps in our offense. JJ took a few weeks before he turned into a weapon last year. Just need one of them to get there.

I think Ford will be an NFL guy. Very impressed with him.

 

[Poke Rocker]

Rewatching this game and a few things stand out on the O-line:
1) Glass did not look good. He got pushed backwards pretty much all day and against a much smaller DE/LB. The snaps he actually did well on were the ones he went against Tulsa's bigger DE #92. I don't know much about o-line play, but it looked like when he had the chance to set his feet, he was fine. When the DE was fast off the ball and could get to him before he was set, he just lost all leverage.
2) We are a senior laden team, and our seniors are playing really poorly. Michalski and Cooper struggled to find the right guy to block, or even get there in time. It's hard to see, so I'm not going to post many gifs, but this is an example. Michalski was supposed to pull and seal the back side with the help of the TE, both miss and #55, who was their responsibility, is able to hit Ollie behind the LOS.

3) We have the physical ability upfront, what seems to be lacking is technique and/or knowing assignments. This is a coaching issue. I've not been happy with Dickey for a long time, and I am not seeing anything that justifies keeping him around. The simple fact of the matter is that this line is largely the same from last year. How have they gotten worse at run blocking? What is being done in the offseason? We desperately need a change.
4) Tulsa seemed to know our offensive cadence. I'll have to rewatch the Arkansas game to see if this was happening last week as well, but Tulsa were often faster off the snap than we were. I don't know if there's a "tell" before we snap the ball, or if they just figured out the cadence, but in the defense of our blockers, it's hard to stop a guy who's already running downhill at you when the ball is snapped. This is on Dunn. We have got to change our rhythm/cadence. Watching the safety cheat down and then start sprinting right before we snap the ball only to hit Ollie in the backfield was frustrating.

I understand your angst, we are OSU fans, we were born with angst! One of the problems that I see goes back to the first four games of last season, TOO MUCH RELIANCE ON ZONE PLAYS AND ZONE BLOCKING, GUNDY IS SO WEDDED TO ZONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group, in my opinion needs to utilize the gap scheme probably 50% of the time much like we saw from the Kansas State game on last season! We don’t have a blocking machine to destroy the edge like we did last season with Josiah Johnson but I think Ford will be a stud in time!!! On the bright side Bowman has rarely been touched and no one, not even the Arkansas athletes on defense, could really get near Bowman! Heck I almost welcome a return to the 2010 and 2011 Holgersen/ Monken style offenses with an emphasis on a very good passing attack!

 

[Osucowboys344]

I understand your angst, we are OSU fans, we were born with angst! One of the problems that I see goes back to the first four games of last season, TOO MUCH RELIANCE ON ZONE PLAYS AND ZONE BLOCKING, GUNDY IS SO WEDDED TO ZONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This group, in my opinion needs to utilize the gap scheme probably 50% of the time much like we saw from the Kansas State game on last season! We don’t have a blocking machine to destroy the edge like we did last season with Josiah Johnson but I think Ford will be a stud in time!!! On the bright side Bowman has rarely been touched and no one, not even the Arkansas athletes on defense, could really get near Bowman! Heck I almost welcome a return to the 2010 and 2011 Holgersen/ Monken style offenses with an emphasis on a very good passing attack!

Exactly. Keep letting bowman air it out like weeden. If they keep loading up the box then torch them with bowman’s arrows. We have so many good WRs and tight ends that we can go toe to toe with any of these suckers.

There is zero reason for us to worry right now especially with josh ford coming a weapon. Our offense is absolutely filthy.

If our defense can just get some stops and we can get a small lead then it puts a lot of pressure on opposing teams because physically we can wear them down

 

[DxCowboy]

Exactly. Keep letting bowman air it out like weeden. If they keep loading up the box then torch them with bowman’s arrows. We have so many good WRs and tight ends that we can go toe to toe with any of these suckers.

There is zero reason for us to worry right now especially with josh ford coming a weapon. Our offense is absolutely filthy.

If our defense can just get some stops and we can get a small lead then it puts a lot of pressure on opposing teams because physically we can wear them down

Your last paragraph spells out exactly why we need balance-have we forgotten last week?

Love Bowman, but Weeden he’s not, nor is there a Blackmon on the other end.

Hope we can figure out the run game, tomorrow, because it’s our best chance of success when the other team’s offense hits us early.

 

[Osucowboys344]

Your last paragraph spells out exactly why we need balance-have we forgotten last week?

Love Bowman, but Weeden he’s not, nor is there a Blackmon on the other end.

Hope we can figure out the run game, tomorrow, because it’s our best chance of success when the other team’s offense hits us early.

I think we are very balanced and that is why teams load the box becuse they are terrified of ollie Gordon running on them. They think bowman can’t beat them and he is proving he can

 

[Poke Rocker]

I think we are very balanced and that is why teams load the box becuse they are terrified of ollie Gordon running on them. They think bowman can’t beat them and he is proving he can

 

[PokeJ]

My brother in Christ.. the LB is right here:
View attachment 7203
If, as you say, the design is to have the TE go outside of the seal block to get to the LB, then that's the worst design ever. But the fact of the matter is that he's still not even beyond the LOS. By the time he gets to the backfield, the DE is already in contact with Ollie.

That picture is very revealing. A lot of Cowboys giving ground behind the line of scrimmage. Oliiehas to break a tackle to get back to the line of scrimmage


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[Backin82]

Exactly. Keep letting bowman air it out like weeden. If they keep loading up the box then torch them with bowman’s arrows. We have so many good WRs and tight ends that we can go toe to toe with any of these suckers.

There is zero reason for us to worry right now especially with josh ford coming a weapon. Our offense is absolutely filthy.

If our defense can just get some stops and we can get a small lead then it puts a lot of pressure on opposing teams because physically we can wear them down

Tony Romo had a great quote during an NFL game yesterday where he mentioned "aggressively take what the defense gives you". I've never heard it stated that way. Typically people interpret "take what the defense gives" as a reactionary, passive, conservative approach.

I fully support airing it out if the opponent loads the box. There's no reason for us to bash our heads against the wall trying to prove points to our linemen or "establish the run" if its ineffective. The point is to win the game, not establish the run. So far this season, we've been slightly more effective passing, and seem less inclined to run up the middle for no gain. So that's a step forward, I guess.

 

[PokeJ]

Tony Romo had a great quote during an NFL game yesterday where he mentioned "aggressively take what the defense gives you". I've never heard it stated that way. Typically people interpret "take what the defense gives" as a reactionary, passive, conservative approach.

I fully support airing it out if the opponent loads the box. There's no reason for us to bash our heads against the wall trying to prove points to our linemen or "establish the run" if its ineffective. The point is to win the game, not establish the run. So far this season, we've been slightly more effective passing, and seem less inclined to run up the middle for no gain. So that's a step forward, I guess.

When does the opposing defense come to the conclusion that they are slitting their own throw by continually loading the box?


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[74072 Poke]

When does the opposing defense come to the conclusion that they are slitting their own throw by continually loading the box?


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Hopefully February

 

[GratefulPoke]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1835739469149827129

 

[Backin82]

When does the opposing defense come to the conclusion that they are slitting their own throw by continually loading the box?


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Will depend on the team and the game flow. So far everyone has loaded up to stop Ollie (and mostly done so), and our passing game has executed effectively enough to burn them for that decision. As long as we're willing to adjust to the situation, I couldn't care less what our run/pass balance is on offense. If they load up to stop Ollie the whole game, we should pass a ton and burn them through the air.

 

[Osucowboys344]

When does the opposing defense come to the conclusion that they are slitting their own throw by continually loading the box?


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Not our problem. I say we just continue to do what works. Let them fry if they want too.