Official Game Thread: Oklahoma State vs. Kansas State

[007Poke]

I can promise you that is in jeopardy if we continue to play this poorly. Nothing leads me to believe we won’t play poorly.

Guaranteed losses: @ CU, @byu, and @tcu

Tossups: WVU, @baylor, Texas tech and Arizona State

If I was betting we win 2 of the tossups and end the season with 5 wins.

5 & 7 are the numbers.

 

[Osucowboys344]

5 & 7 are the numbers.

Honestly if that what it takes to get gundys stubborn arrogant ego to be humbled then so be it

 

[DCowboy]

I'm not saying we can't, but the scheme is a small portion of the reason for a defense's success or failure. Recruiting and talent is much more important. That's why the last season under Knowles was so good- our defense had never been more talented or more experienced. That's not where we are right now.

I'd much rather worry about getting rid of the coordinator who's been here for 5 years and proven to be worthless instead of worrying about the coordinator who's been here for less than 1.5 seasons. Maybe we'll need to replace him too. Right now, however, our focus should be fixing the one thing we know we can do around here, which is having a potent offense.

I really think the 3-3-5 scheme is a big reason why we aren't very good against the run. We possibly have 3 NFL players on this defense(Martin,Rucker,and Oliver) but if you can't stop the run consistently nothing else matters.
Every team we play puts 7-8 in the box and presses coverage. Let's try that

 

[Poke Skywalker]

I really think the 3-3-5 scheme is a big reason why we aren't very good against the run. We possibly have 3 NFL players on this defense(Martin,Rucker,and Oliver) but if you can't stop the run consistently nothing else matters.
Every team we play puts 7-8 in the box and presses coverage. Let's try that

Yes, in most cases you can see what the objective of the D is in the first couple of possessions. For our opponents it’s been committing extra guys to stop the run and make Bowman beat you. We look like a jumbled mess though on D and don’t focus on doing anything well. We get gashed by the run, can’t rush the passer, give up big chunk pass plays, what is our philosophy?

 

[DCowboy]

Yes, in most cases you can see what the objective of the D is in the first couple of possessions. For our opponents it’s been committing extra guys to stop the run and make Bowman beat you. We look like a jumbled mess though on D and don’t focus on doing anything well. We get gashed by the run, can’t rush the passer, give up big chunk pass plays, what is our philosophy?

More often than not we are beaten by being out of position. Let's simplify it, play man coverage, rush the QB and if we get beat so be it.

 

[PokeBloke]

We may not have Okungs across the line but We do have a good enough line to win in the Big 12. I believe we have the best receiving Corp and best running back in the Big 12 as well.
Our offensive impotence comes down to Kasey Dunn and Bowman. I don't think either is solely to blame. Bowman flat out missed multiple open receivers today. Dunn should have ran the effing ball more and not run qb draws in the red zone and for the love of God stop throwing the WR fade down the sideline seemingly every 3rd down. We had control of this game and a chance to land the KO blow in the 1st half. I believe we could should have been up 3Tds with better play calling and execution. The offense just looks unorganized and has since Dunn took over.

Do you not watch linebackers plant linemen on their ass every other snap? They are terrible and most should be at a school like Tulsa or Ark State not OSU.

 

[Chairman of the Board]

How was he so good for so long at KSU? It's like he's stopped trying, things have moved past him, or he's being asked to teach something he doesn't like/agree with.

I don't think Dunn knows how to call an effective run game.

Example: on the first drive we hit a nice misdirection pitch to Ollie to the boundary and he picked up 10 and a first down. Nice call. But it was a call based on deception, not necessary great blocking.

Then on first and goal at the 11 he calls it again.

The field is condensed, KSU is playing tighter everywhere, we toss it and two unblocked \wildcats are there to make it a 4 yard loss. He was simply guessing that would work, the alignment of KSU"s defense definitely didn't dicrate that call.

(maybe he called it again because it worked on the first drive and Gundy's motrher said call it again)

You'd think Dickey could help him set it up, and Miles was a master of setting up the run game and Gundy OC'd under him--but that knowledge does not seem to make its way to Dunn.

 

[cowboyinexile]

My son and money go to Bama so first time in my life I get to root for a consistent winner! Roll Damn Tide!

 

[DCowboy]

Do you not watch linebackers plant linemen on their ass every other snap? They are terrible and most should be at a school like Tulsa or Ark State not OSU.

We've been decent at pass blocking and Bowman has time to throw. Run blocking has been a disaster and I blame Dunn for that

 

[Backin82]

Shrum ain’t scared, Gundy gets in gear or he won’t be around

I tend to agree that "Shrum ain't scared", but also think it would take several losing seasons in a row to force a changes. If we're making bowl games (even trash ones), then he'll continue to collect his checks. And now that we're in an weaker conference, it should, in theory, be even easier to win games than it was previously. I believe we're stuck with Gundy for better or worse, and all will go according to his fancy. If he's cool winning 8-9 games a year and making mediocre bowls, then that's what we'll get until he retires.

 

[Georgia Poke]

My son and money go to Bama so first time in my life I get to root for a consistent winner! Roll Damn Tide!

I'm also a UGA grad. I knew when UGA scored the go-ahead TD with over two minutes left that Bama was going to score. I just figured it would be a last second FG.

 

[Poke Skywalker]

We've been decent at pass blocking and Bowman has time to throw. Run blocking has been a disaster and I blame Dunn for that

All the more reason to throw Flores out there now, he’s not going to be sacked a bunch dropping back to pass and gives the running game another option.

 

[Poke Skywalker]

I tend to agree that "Shrum ain't scared", but also think it would take several losing seasons in a row to force a changes. If we're making bowl games (even trash ones), then he'll continue to collect his checks. And now that we're in a weaker conference, it should, in theory, be even easier to win games than it was previously. I believe we're stuck with Gundy for better or worse, and all will go according to his fancy. If he's cool winning 8-9 games a year and making mediocre bowls, then that's what we'll get until he retires.

Only time will tell. If we roll into next season with the same staff intact, and specifically coordinators, we’ll have our answer.

 

[Georgia Poke]

All the more reason to throw Flores out there now, he’s not going to be sacked a bunch dropping back to pass and gives the running game another option.

Perhaps after the bye week would be better so as to give him two weeks of practice as the #1.

 

[EdmondPoke]

I really think the 3-3-5 scheme is a big reason why we aren't very good against the run. We possibly have 3 NFL players on this defense(Martin,Rucker,and Oliver) but if you can't stop the run consistently nothing else matters.
Every team we play puts 7-8 in the box and presses coverage. Let's try that

Well, the reality was that we aligned in a 4-2-5 most of yesterday.

 

[EdmondPoke]

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Dunn will never be a good coordinator, we have plenty of evidence. He needs to go.

Nardo is a LONG way from being a good coordinator and can't even develop a scheme to slow down a team from rushing the football all over us. OSU football should not be on the job training. Gundy tried this with the Princeton dude and it was a huge failure. This looks the same.

You can't win with three turnovers, an erratic QB, and no run game....but you also can't win by allowing over 200 yards (or 300) over and over and getting beat deep in just about every game.

Neither is close to even competing for a championship which was more than reasonable to expect.

I'm not necessarily saying we have to have one or the other. What I'm saying is that right now, Nardo is still an unknown variable. He took over a crappy defense, and that defense hasn't improved much. However, there have been moments of improvement. For example, much of the first half of this week and the first half of last week. The defense played really well.

Ultimately, we can't fix both problems simultaneously. We need to address the glaringly obvious problem first, which is that Dunn is a God-awful OC. While we're doing that, we can continue to evaluate Nardo and see what he can or can't do. He deserves at least a 2nd full season before people start casting him off. However, it's tough to be great on defense when your offense is this pathetic.

 

[Poke Skywalker]

However, there have been moments of improvement. For example, much of the first half of this week and the first half of last week. The defense played really well.

You must have missed the late news from last night…the utes with their true freshman qb are terrible on offense. 10 points at home against AZ. We wondered last week but it is now very clear any success was more about Utah’s limitations, and they still ran the ball all over us BTW. We are currently 129th of 133 teams in total D. It’s very evident that this job is way above Nardo, OCs on this level are making a fool of him.

 

[EdmondPoke]

You must have missed the late news from last night…the utes with their true freshman qb are terrible on offense. 10 points at home against AZ. We wondered last week but it is now very clear any success was more about Utah’s limitations, and they still ran the ball all over us BTW. We are currently 129th of 133 teams in total D. It’s very evident that this job is way above Nardo, OCs on this level are making a fool of him.

We also contained their offense, however terrible. It wasn't until we repeatedly asked our defense to go back out onto the field every 45 seconds of game clock until they started to wear down. Arizona had the ball for 28 minutes on offense. We had it for 17, and a scary amount of that came in the 4th quarter when the game was already decided.

Edit: Look, people need to understand something. Two things can be wrong here: 1) Nardo should never have been hired, and 2) It's way too damn early to fire him. You are not going to see drastic changes in performance in less than a year and a half, not at this level of program.

It's hard enough to keep coordinators here. Why on earth would you want to set a standard of firing coordinators before they even get a full year with their own recruits? Nardo should never have been hired, but it's waaaayy to early to fire him now. That's just the reality of the situation.

 

[Chairman of the Board]

I'm not necessarily saying we have to have one or the other. What I'm saying is that right now, Nardo is still an unknown variable. He took over a crappy defense, and that defense hasn't improved much. However, there have been moments of improvement. For example, much of the first half of this week and the first half of last week. The defense played really well.

Ultimately, we can't fix box problems simultaneously. We need to address the glaringly obvious problem first, which is that Dunn is a God-awful OC. While we're doing that, we can continue to evaluate Nardo and see what he can or can't do. He deserves at least a 2nd full season before people start casting him off. However, it's tough to be great on defense when your offense is this pathetic.

We can agree on that

 

[Backin82]

We also contained their offense, however terrible. It wasn't until we repeatedly asked our defense to go back out onto the field every 45 seconds of game clock until they started to wear down. Arizona had the ball for 28 minutes on offense. We had it for 17, and a scary amount of that came in the 4th quarter when the game was already decided.

Edit: Look, people need to understand something. Two things can be wrong here: 1) Nardo should never have been hired, and 2) It's way too damn early to fire him. You are not going to see drastic changes in performance in less than a year and a half, not at this level of program.

It's hard enough to keep coordinators here. Why on earth would you want to set a standard of firing coordinators before they even get a full year with their own recruits? Nardo should never have been hired, but it's waaaayy to early to fire him now. That's just the reality of the situation.

I don't disagree on Nardo now that he's been hired, but... Hard enough to keep coordinators here? What...?