Trump 2024 Run Thread
- Thread starter Polds4OSU
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Good thing he didn't typo that last word.
GREAT Outline and walkthrough for those who don't want to read all the legal jargon in the Indictment
I wanted to explain the Georgia indictment as clearly and succinctly as possible. I come to this with a unique perspective. I was involved in Republican politics for decades and monitored this scheme as it was unfolding in real time. I am also a former federal prosecutor in Georgia, and am one of the few lawyers in America who has defended a huge, complex RICO jury trial and won.
RICO LAW
Most people know that Congress enacted the RICO statute decades ago as a powerful tool to break up the mafia families. However, it has also been used in state and federal courts to prosecute white collar fraud, criminal street gangs, drug trafficking organizations and a host of other criminal enterprises.
Many criminal organizations, such as the mafia, are set up by a leader who doesn't necessarily do the dirty work themselves. People are recruited by others to engage in criminal conduct in furtherance of the conspiracy. A mob boss typically doesn't commit the murders, rob the banks, or sell the drugs himself. Other people do that for them. The leaders may not even know many of the people in their organization because they make sure that they have direct contact with as few people as possible.
The RICO statute is designed to be able to convict the leaders of criminal enterprises and hold them accountable for the crimes committed by their underlings, even though on a daily basis they didn't directly order each specific crime. The "soldiers" or "workers" are expected to "earn" by committing crimes. The boss doesn't want or need to know what those crimes are, just that a percentage of the proceeds is paid up to the bosses.
To prove RICO, you have to prove that a group of individuals were organized and put together to accomplish an unlawful objective. You then have to prove that there was some kind of structure or organization, with various people receiving direction from above and carrying out certain missions "in furtherance" of the criminal objective. RICO statutes typically require 2-3 "predicate acts" be committed by each of the charged defendants.
In the Trump RICO indictment, he is charged with organizing a criminal conspiracy to attempt to overturn the 2020 election. His co-defendants are charged with joining that conspiracy and committing unlawful acts to accomplish the goal. These acts included false statements and perjury, impersonating public officials, forgery, filing false documents, computer theft and hacking, fraud, theft of documents, and tampering with witnesses.
THE TRUMP RICO INDICTMENT
This is how the conspiracy played out according to the indictment:
Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis and Sidney Powell made false statements at a press conference in Nov 2020 with wild accusations of fraud.
Trump, Mark Meadows, and John McEntee draft a memo for their plan to disrupt and delay counting electoral votes from 6 states on J6. Pence was to refuse to count those states and return the issue to the state legislatures who would the adopt the alternate slate of Trump electors, citing "fraud."
Rudy, Jenna, John Eastman and Atlanta lawyer Ray Smith solicited 14 GA Senators to sign off on their fake electors based on voter fraud.
Rudy and Trump made separate phone calls to the President of the GA Senate claiming voter fraud.
Trump calls Gov Brian Kemp to pressure him to call a Special Session. Kemp refused.
Trump then tweets that Kemp and Lt. Gov Duncan are ignoring fraud and refusing to call a Special Session. This begins a pattern where Trump would lie, GA officials would say he is wrong, then Trump would tweet to his millions of followers that they are being traitors and the public should pressure them to go along with the scheme. This happens over and over.
Powell hires a firm to illegally breach voting machines to collect data to try to show votes were "flipped."
Eastman and GA lawyer Robert Cheeley plan to set up meetings in 6 states where alternate slates of electors would be selected and would sign false certificates for Trump.
Cheeley sends an email to a GA Senator saying Eastman told him a Special Session must be called immediately where the GA legislature would approve the alternate electors on the grounds of fraud.
A "Patriot Call to Action" is tweeted calling on people to pressure GA officials to call a Special Session.
Trump has campaign official Bill White get personal and contact info on the GA Senate President and Majority Leader. White sends the info to Rudy.
Trump then calls the Speaker of the House to demand a Special Session.
Trump then calls the GA AG asking him to investigate false claims of fraud and to join the lawsuit filed by other state AGs in Texas.
Trump and Eastman call Ronna McDaniel to ask her to help them recruit people to serve as fake electors.
Trump attorney Kenneth Chesebro writes a memo to Trump campaign attorney outlining how the fake elector scheme would work.
Documents were then sent out to the state GOP Chairs for the 6 contested states for the fake electors to sign.
Rudy then testifies to the GA House the following fabricated things: Video showed election workers stealing votes, Ruby Freeman was using USB ports to flip votes, 96,000 fraudulent mail-in ballots were counted. This was all made up.
Rudy calls WI GOP official to tell him to keep the fake elector scheme secret.
Chesebro sends email to Rudy with multiple different plans to disrupt or delay counting the electoral votes on J6.
Rudy sends email telling everyone in each state to keep the fake elector meetings secret.
Trump tweets out, "Demand this clown call a special session now!" referring to Kemp.
Fake electors in 6 states meet and sign the false certificates under oath that they were "the duly elected and qualified electors" for their states.
Illinois pastor Stephen Lee is recruited to drive to Ruby Freeman's house in an attempt to coerce her into falsely confessing to fraud.
When Freeman refused to speak to Lee, he asked Harrison Floyd with Black Voices for Trump to help him. He said he thought Freeman wouldn't speak to him because he was white.
Rudy and Powell meet with Trump at the WH to discuss strategy, which included seizing voting machines and appointing Powell as Special Counsel to investigate fraud.
Powell hires a firm to hack and copy voting data from Dominion machines.
Meadows flies to GA and attempts to observe an audit of signature-verification ballots by investigators. He is denied entry because it isn't a public meeting.
Trump then calls the Chief Investigator, tells him that he won, and pressures him to find fraud: "When the right answer comes out, you'll be praised."
Eastman then sends email to Chesbro saying that the best plan was to get Pence (or Grassley if Pence was absent for some reason) to "act boldly and be challenged," because that would cause a delay that could throw things back to state legislatures.
I wanted to explain the Georgia indictment as clearly and succinctly as possible. I come to this with a unique perspective. I was involved in Republican politics for decades and monitored this scheme as it was unfolding in real time. I am also a former federal prosecutor in Georgia, and am one of the few lawyers in America who has defended a huge, complex RICO jury trial and won.
RICO LAW
Most people know that Congress enacted the RICO statute decades ago as a powerful tool to break up the mafia families. However, it has also been used in state and federal courts to prosecute white collar fraud, criminal street gangs, drug trafficking organizations and a host of other criminal enterprises.
Many criminal organizations, such as the mafia, are set up by a leader who doesn't necessarily do the dirty work themselves. People are recruited by others to engage in criminal conduct in furtherance of the conspiracy. A mob boss typically doesn't commit the murders, rob the banks, or sell the drugs himself. Other people do that for them. The leaders may not even know many of the people in their organization because they make sure that they have direct contact with as few people as possible.
The RICO statute is designed to be able to convict the leaders of criminal enterprises and hold them accountable for the crimes committed by their underlings, even though on a daily basis they didn't directly order each specific crime. The "soldiers" or "workers" are expected to "earn" by committing crimes. The boss doesn't want or need to know what those crimes are, just that a percentage of the proceeds is paid up to the bosses.
To prove RICO, you have to prove that a group of individuals were organized and put together to accomplish an unlawful objective. You then have to prove that there was some kind of structure or organization, with various people receiving direction from above and carrying out certain missions "in furtherance" of the criminal objective. RICO statutes typically require 2-3 "predicate acts" be committed by each of the charged defendants.
In the Trump RICO indictment, he is charged with organizing a criminal conspiracy to attempt to overturn the 2020 election. His co-defendants are charged with joining that conspiracy and committing unlawful acts to accomplish the goal. These acts included false statements and perjury, impersonating public officials, forgery, filing false documents, computer theft and hacking, fraud, theft of documents, and tampering with witnesses.
THE TRUMP RICO INDICTMENT
This is how the conspiracy played out according to the indictment:
Rudy Giuliani, Jenna Ellis and Sidney Powell made false statements at a press conference in Nov 2020 with wild accusations of fraud.
Trump, Mark Meadows, and John McEntee draft a memo for their plan to disrupt and delay counting electoral votes from 6 states on J6. Pence was to refuse to count those states and return the issue to the state legislatures who would the adopt the alternate slate of Trump electors, citing "fraud."
Rudy, Jenna, John Eastman and Atlanta lawyer Ray Smith solicited 14 GA Senators to sign off on their fake electors based on voter fraud.
Rudy and Trump made separate phone calls to the President of the GA Senate claiming voter fraud.
Trump calls Gov Brian Kemp to pressure him to call a Special Session. Kemp refused.
Trump then tweets that Kemp and Lt. Gov Duncan are ignoring fraud and refusing to call a Special Session. This begins a pattern where Trump would lie, GA officials would say he is wrong, then Trump would tweet to his millions of followers that they are being traitors and the public should pressure them to go along with the scheme. This happens over and over.
Powell hires a firm to illegally breach voting machines to collect data to try to show votes were "flipped."
Eastman and GA lawyer Robert Cheeley plan to set up meetings in 6 states where alternate slates of electors would be selected and would sign false certificates for Trump.
Cheeley sends an email to a GA Senator saying Eastman told him a Special Session must be called immediately where the GA legislature would approve the alternate electors on the grounds of fraud.
A "Patriot Call to Action" is tweeted calling on people to pressure GA officials to call a Special Session.
Trump has campaign official Bill White get personal and contact info on the GA Senate President and Majority Leader. White sends the info to Rudy.
Trump then calls the Speaker of the House to demand a Special Session.
Trump then calls the GA AG asking him to investigate false claims of fraud and to join the lawsuit filed by other state AGs in Texas.
Trump and Eastman call Ronna McDaniel to ask her to help them recruit people to serve as fake electors.
Trump attorney Kenneth Chesebro writes a memo to Trump campaign attorney outlining how the fake elector scheme would work.
Documents were then sent out to the state GOP Chairs for the 6 contested states for the fake electors to sign.
Rudy then testifies to the GA House the following fabricated things: Video showed election workers stealing votes, Ruby Freeman was using USB ports to flip votes, 96,000 fraudulent mail-in ballots were counted. This was all made up.
Rudy calls WI GOP official to tell him to keep the fake elector scheme secret.
Chesebro sends email to Rudy with multiple different plans to disrupt or delay counting the electoral votes on J6.
Rudy sends email telling everyone in each state to keep the fake elector meetings secret.
Trump tweets out, "Demand this clown call a special session now!" referring to Kemp.
Fake electors in 6 states meet and sign the false certificates under oath that they were "the duly elected and qualified electors" for their states.
Illinois pastor Stephen Lee is recruited to drive to Ruby Freeman's house in an attempt to coerce her into falsely confessing to fraud.
When Freeman refused to speak to Lee, he asked Harrison Floyd with Black Voices for Trump to help him. He said he thought Freeman wouldn't speak to him because he was white.
Rudy and Powell meet with Trump at the WH to discuss strategy, which included seizing voting machines and appointing Powell as Special Counsel to investigate fraud.
Powell hires a firm to hack and copy voting data from Dominion machines.
Meadows flies to GA and attempts to observe an audit of signature-verification ballots by investigators. He is denied entry because it isn't a public meeting.
Trump then calls the Chief Investigator, tells him that he won, and pressures him to find fraud: "When the right answer comes out, you'll be praised."
Eastman then sends email to Chesbro saying that the best plan was to get Pence (or Grassley if Pence was absent for some reason) to "act boldly and be challenged," because that would cause a delay that could throw things back to state legislatures.
Contd
Meadows then offers to pay the Chief Investigator out of Trump campaign funds if he will speed up the audit.
Trump then asks AG Jeffrey Rosen and Dep. AG Richard Donoghue to "just say the election was corrupt, and leave the rest to me and GOP congressmen." They refuse.
Jeff Clark writes up a document falsely claiming that DOJ "identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome" of the election. Clark then asks Rosen and Donoghue to sign it so he can send it to Kemp. They refuse.
Trump then tweets that Kemp should resign.
A hearing is then held before the GA Senate, where three Trump witnesses gave the following false testimony:
Rudy testified falsely that the same ballots were counted 5 times, 2,560 felons voted, and 10,315 dead people voted.
Ray Smith testified falsely that the Sect of State admitted 8,000 people voted illegally and claimed the Sec of State said the election was only 90% accurate.
Cheeley testified falsely that election workers counted some ballots over and over again.
Jenna then wrote a memo to Trump that Pence should not open the envelopes with the votes from the 6 states because they were "in dispute."
Trump and Eastman then file an injunction against Kemp citing multiple false claims of fraud. Earlier that day, Eastman had sent a memo to Trump campaign attorneys that he knew that some of the allegations of fraud in the lawsuit were false.
Trump and Meadows then call Brad Raffensperger on the recorded call. Trump makes 12 different false statements in that call.
Trump then tweets out that Raffensperger won't listen to him. "He has no clue!"
Lee, Harrison Floyd, and Kanye West publicist Trevian Kutti all make 11 different phone calls to Ruby Freeman. She won't talk to them.
Kutti then flies to GA from Chicago and drives to Freeman's house. He told the neighbor he was a "crisis manager" and was there to help her.
Kutti finally meets with Freeman for an hour and offers her "protection and help" if she will confess to fraud. He asks her to sign a statement that she committed fraud. She refuses.
Trump then tweets, "The VP has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors."
Eastman then meets with Pence Chief of Staff Marc Short to get Pence to reject electors.
Trump then meets with Pence. Pence refuses to go along with it. Trump told him he was naïve and lacked courage.
Trump later calls Pence and tried again.
Trump then calls Pence another time and tells him "you got to be tough tomorrow."
Trump then puts out a statement falsely claiming that Pence agreed with him that he has the power to reject electors.
Then the indictment details what happened on J6.
The indictment then lays out the scheme orchestrated by Sidney Powell where they hacked voting machines in Coffee County, took ballots, took confidential voter info, data and software illegally.
The bottom line is that the proof in this case is overwhelming. The fact that this trial is going to be public and televised will be extremely valuable. The American public can see and hear and all facts, and don't have to rely on media filters. The evidence in this case is devastating for Trump and his co-conspirators. I fully expect many of them to cut deals to testify against Trump, where even more incriminating evidence will come to light.
Meadows then offers to pay the Chief Investigator out of Trump campaign funds if he will speed up the audit.
Trump then asks AG Jeffrey Rosen and Dep. AG Richard Donoghue to "just say the election was corrupt, and leave the rest to me and GOP congressmen." They refuse.
Jeff Clark writes up a document falsely claiming that DOJ "identified significant concerns that may have impacted the outcome" of the election. Clark then asks Rosen and Donoghue to sign it so he can send it to Kemp. They refuse.
Trump then tweets that Kemp should resign.
A hearing is then held before the GA Senate, where three Trump witnesses gave the following false testimony:
Rudy testified falsely that the same ballots were counted 5 times, 2,560 felons voted, and 10,315 dead people voted.
Ray Smith testified falsely that the Sect of State admitted 8,000 people voted illegally and claimed the Sec of State said the election was only 90% accurate.
Cheeley testified falsely that election workers counted some ballots over and over again.
Jenna then wrote a memo to Trump that Pence should not open the envelopes with the votes from the 6 states because they were "in dispute."
Trump and Eastman then file an injunction against Kemp citing multiple false claims of fraud. Earlier that day, Eastman had sent a memo to Trump campaign attorneys that he knew that some of the allegations of fraud in the lawsuit were false.
Trump and Meadows then call Brad Raffensperger on the recorded call. Trump makes 12 different false statements in that call.
Trump then tweets out that Raffensperger won't listen to him. "He has no clue!"
Lee, Harrison Floyd, and Kanye West publicist Trevian Kutti all make 11 different phone calls to Ruby Freeman. She won't talk to them.
Kutti then flies to GA from Chicago and drives to Freeman's house. He told the neighbor he was a "crisis manager" and was there to help her.
Kutti finally meets with Freeman for an hour and offers her "protection and help" if she will confess to fraud. He asks her to sign a statement that she committed fraud. She refuses.
Trump then tweets, "The VP has the power to reject fraudulently chosen electors."
Eastman then meets with Pence Chief of Staff Marc Short to get Pence to reject electors.
Trump then meets with Pence. Pence refuses to go along with it. Trump told him he was naïve and lacked courage.
Trump later calls Pence and tried again.
Trump then calls Pence another time and tells him "you got to be tough tomorrow."
Trump then puts out a statement falsely claiming that Pence agreed with him that he has the power to reject electors.
Then the indictment details what happened on J6.
The indictment then lays out the scheme orchestrated by Sidney Powell where they hacked voting machines in Coffee County, took ballots, took confidential voter info, data and software illegally.
The bottom line is that the proof in this case is overwhelming. The fact that this trial is going to be public and televised will be extremely valuable. The American public can see and hear and all facts, and don't have to rely on media filters. The evidence in this case is devastating for Trump and his co-conspirators. I fully expect many of them to cut deals to testify against Trump, where even more incriminating evidence will come to light.
HacklemanPoke
Deputy
I don’t think it’s an accident he used that word.
Good grief, you truly are delusional.
I really don’t want to read all of that. Just give it to me straight. Have they really, really, really, got him this time?
One woman was killed by police, one died of a drug overdose, and three of natural causes on or within a few days of Jan 6th. I’m absolutely no J6 apologist but get your facts straight. Jan 6th was probably the darkest incident on American soil since MacArthur used tanks and cavalry against the veterans of the Bonus Army. Jan 6 is the absolute main reason Trump should be disqualified for any elected office, but that doesn’t make what’s happening in GA true or right. And I’m not “latching on” to any tweet, I’m saying that it’s asinine to use an innocuous tweet in an indictment. And demented and dishonest way I see the world? Just how drunk are you? You know absolutely nothing about me other than I said this is an overreach political move that could hurt actual winnable cases against Trump. Crawl back into your hole son, adults are trying to talk.
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Good to know you've seen all the evidence available, are an expert in Georgia RICO statutes, and an experienced criminal defense lawyer or prosecutor that is fully qualified to issue an opinion about the merits of an indictment that was JUST FILED YESTERDAY.
UrbanCowboy
New member
"I think I know the answer, but I don't want to say it"
Good to know you've seen all the evidence available, are an expert in Georgia RICO statutes, and an experienced criminal defense lawyer or prosecutor that is fully qualified to issue an opinion about the merits of an indictment that was JUST FILED YESTERDAY.
Sure, I can offer an opinion on just about anything, that’s how opinions work. The main thing that amazes me about this is from what I’m reading Trump really believed he somehow had hundreds of thousands of more votes in every state. Delusional. I still stand by my statement that including a just wait I’ll have an announcement coming soon tweet included as proof of organized crime is really stupid.
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You absolutely can offer an opinion about anything. You can stand by whatever you want. Not all opinions are of equal or even any value or due consideration.
I can justifiably dismiss it as the opinion of someone that knows nothing or next to nothing about what is relevant evidence in a RICO trial…..that knows nothing or next to nothing about criminal prosecutions…..that knows nothing or next to nothing about how that tweet fits in with the rest of the evidence (context).
Just like I could issue a medical opinion about someone‘s best course of treatment for lung cancer. I’m not really qualified to do so, and if they seriously consider following my opinion they’re a fool.
So, you’re verifying my point? Just making sure. Yesterday you gave an opinion on a shirt I looked at. I felt it was a really good opinion and I appreciated the input, don’t get me wrong!! But I didn’t discount your opinion out of hand because you’re not a clothing designer or tailor.
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No, I am most assuredly not verifying your point.
And your analogy/comparison between the two is terribly flawed as well.
If you had asked for an opinion about the quality of the construction of the shirt and you decided to dismiss my opinion out of hand because I'm not a tailor or clothing designer, they would be much closer. You didn't do that. You asked for an opinion of personal taste.
But if you wanted to discount my opinion for whatever reason....cool.
But in areas of specialized knowledge and experience....like the law....like medicine....hell, like plumbing or electrical work....the opinion of someone not trained and experienced in the area of expertise really isn't all that worthy of serious consideration...particularly by someone who is trained and experienced in the area of expertise.
So if you asked for a medical opinion, or a plumbing opinion, or whatever....and I somehow decide to give it to you (I wouldn't because I have no level of competence to issue one)....by all means, dismiss it out of hand.
You're completely entitled to your opinion, and I'm completely entitled to point out why I or anyone else don't need to seriously consider your opinion.
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