Supreme Court decisions

[CowboyJD]

I assume I am probably in the lowest decile of being religious on this board, but that is questioning someone’s faith.

No it’s not.

What it was is pointing out that it was a statement of faith. A metaphysical statement. A statement of belief.

That it was not a statement of objective, physical fact.

And even if it was, so what?

Your boy Gogetem is openly mocking others’ faith in this thread. The poster I asked this question to was alreading questioning other people’s faith.

But suddenly you got a problem with it when I do it.

At least you’re consistent.

 

[GratefulPoke]

If you don’t believe in God why not just end the argument there? Just say there is no God and be done with it. My, and several others, problem with homosexuality is obviously based on our Christian faith and confidence in his word that you obviously don’t share and our opinions are mute from the get go. For those that claim to be Christian but want to twist the scriptures to allow for their sin it’s a completely different argument.

1) Just because I don't believe doesn't mean I should skip theological topics, especially since I spent a good deal of time studying them. If I see theological or hermenutical errors, I'm going to point them out.
2) I like to debate.

And for the last part:

 

[andylicious]

1) You do realize that the very same can be said for you, right? One of us tried to overplay their expertise on this issue, do you remember who did that? Just own your error: you appealed to authority when you didn't have it in the first place. I was happy to debate facts regardless of qualification and still am.
2) Your statement is verifiably false. There are more than two biological sexes in humans. There are male, female and intersex people. The latter group is a very small minority--anywhere between .018% to 1.7% of the population depending on ones definition of what constitutes someone who is intersex. This variance is based on prevalence and function of physiological and genital features. (Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3813612)
3) My challenge was the use of the genesis passage to support one male one female marriage. That is an eisegetical reading of the passage--period. The author of Genesis is not concerned with the concept of marriage--not culturally, not legally not anything. Its a creation story. For the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, the text isn't super clear. One thing is for certain is that reading ones own point of view into that passage happens both ways, and the stronger evidence points toward what @Polds4OSU cited. FWIW, I do think that Paul directly condemns homosexuality in the NT. My counter to that is that the Bible is not a reliable or consistent source of ethics: sexual or otherwise. If one believes in biblical inerrancy, we are taking about a literal genocidal God. I'm happy to provide references if you want them.

God is a jealous God, and the world is not a soft place. I’m a lot more liberal than my ancestors, but I’m obviously much more conservative than you are. I will respect you and your views but I don’t agree with you.

You are incorrect on intersex, that is a social scientist construct. There is a dominant sex organ that places us in one of two sexes. There may be vestigal type organs that have no function and to say that 5% of the human race is intersex is like saying 5 out of every 100 people are intersex. How many true hermaphrodites with both both sets of sex organs functioning have you ever met? My number is 0.0. The numbers don’t add up. Until the last five years this wasn’t even a discussion.

 

[andylicious]

I can’t.

I’ve said so in this thread.

BUT….

You’re the one that said “Of course God is the Divine Creator”.

If it’s that obvious and evident as you proclaim, you should be able to prove it objectively and factually.

And…..you can’t. Nobody can.

That’s why it’s called faith.

I just want to see if you will acknowledge that very simple fact.

I bet you won’t.

I had a comparative anatomy professor that was one of my favorite professors I ever had. The freshman level Zoology professor was running his mouth about evolution one day when we had our twice a year capstone class. I wish I were as eloquent in stating my beliefs as our comparative anatomy prof, he kindly told the guy to get a life and get to church and gave real reasons that I can’t match in how gentlemanly and incredibly awesome his reasoning was. I knew then I didn’t need to be ashamed of my faith anymore because my prof was the smartest guy I ever met and if he could continue to believe then I could quit doubting.

My prof didn’t persuade the zoology prof, no more than I could persuade you. I love science, I love the precision and how one thing builds to the next thing and trying to figure out why some things just are. To me it’s the delicate handiwork of a Divine Creator, to you it may just be a lot of happenstance.

That’s ok with me. You don’t have to believe as I do. I can share my views and my faith, but I can’t pull out an elaborate chart or equation to prove it. I look forward to one day knowing the answers and that my faith is proven. If I’m proven wrong one day so be it, but I’m going to hang on to what I have faith in because for me it’s right.

I can’t replicate my faith in an experiment that can be repeated over and over. I can’t put it on paper for you, but I really wish I could because it is an incredible life. I really wish I could represent my Lord and Savior better, but my nature is to be a smart ass that curses way to much. I’m a work in progress but no I can’t prove it to you.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

I'm curious: Do you believe there is some issue with politely questioning someone's faith or lack of faith?

No. No. No. I think you’re misunderstanding. It’s perfectly ok to question another person’s faith if that person is LGBTQ+. It’s not ok to question another person’s faith if they are a conservative evangelical gatekeeper.

 

[GratefulPoke]

God is a jealous God, and the world is not a soft place. I’m a lot more liberal than my ancestors, but I’m obviously much more conservative than you are. I will respect you and your views but I don’t agree with you.

You are incorrect on intersex, that is a social scientist construct. There is a dominant sex organ that places us in one of two sexes. There may be vestigal type organs that have no function and to say that 5% of the human race is intersex is like saying 5 out of every 100 people are intersex. How many true hermaphrodites with both both sets of sex organs functioning have you ever met? My number is 0.0. The numbers don’t add up. Until the last five years this wasn’t even a discussion.

You could not be more wrong on this issue and are at odds with the medical field. Intersex people may have both chromosomes and both genitalia. Just becuase anecdotally nobody has personally told you or showed you that they are intersex is completely immaterial to this discussion. Data on this stretches back decades too.

Intersex​

Intersex is a group of conditions in which there is a discrepancy between the external genitals and the internal genitals (the testes and ovaries).
The older term for this condition is hermaphroditism. Although the older terms are still included in this article for reference, they have been replaced by most experts, patients, and families. Increasingly, this group of conditions is being called disorders of sex development (DSDs).

Causes​

Intersex can be divided into 4 categories:

• 46, XX intersex
• 46, XY intersex
• True gonadal intersex
• Complex or undetermined intersex

Each one is discussed in more detail below.
Note: In many children, the cause of intersex may remain undetermined, even with modern diagnostic techniques.
46, XX INTERSEX
The person has the chromosomes of a woman, the ovaries of a woman, but external (outside) genitals that appear male. This most often is the result of a female fetus having been exposed to excess male hormones before birth. The labia ("lips" or folds of skin of the external female genitals) fuse, and the clitoris enlarges to appear like a penis. In most cases, this person has a normal uterus and fallopian tubes. This condition is also called 46, XX with virilization. It used to be called female pseudohermaphroditism. There are several possible causes:

• Congenital adrenal hyperplasia (the most common cause).
• Male hormones (such as testosterone) taken or encountered by the mother during pregnancy.
• Male hormone-producing tumors in the mother: These are most often ovarian tumors. Mothers who have children with 46, XX intersex should be checked unless there is another clear cause.
• Aromatase deficiency: This one may not be noticeable until puberty. Aromatase is an enzyme that normally converts male hormones to female hormones. Too much aromatase activity can lead to excess estrogen (female hormone); too little to 46, XX intersex. At puberty, these XX children, who had been raised as girls, may begin to take on male characteristics.

46, XY INTERSEX
The person has the chromosomes of a man, but the external genitals are incompletely formed, ambiguous, or clearly female. Internally, testes may be normal, malformed, or absent. This condition is also called 46, XY with undervirilization. It used to be called male pseudohermaphroditism. Formation of normal male external genitals depends on the appropriate balance between male and female hormones. Therefore, it requires the adequate production and function of male hormones. 46, XY intersex has many possible causes:

• Problems with the testes: The testes normally produce male hormones. If the testes do not form properly, it will lead to undervirilization. There are a number of possible causes for this, including XY pure gonadal dysgenesis.
• Problems with testosterone formation: Testosterone is formed through a series of steps. Each of these steps requires a different enzyme. Deficiencies in any of these enzymes can result in inadequate testosterone and produce a different syndrome of 46, XY intersex. Different types of congenital adrenal hyperplasia can fall in this category.
• Problems with using testosterone: Some people have normal testes and make adequate amounts of testosterone, but still have 46, XY intersex due to conditions such as 5-alpha-reductase deficiency or androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS).
• People with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency lack the enzyme needed to convert testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). There are at least 5 different types of 5-alpha-reductase deficiency. Some of the babies have normal male genitalia, some have normal female genitalia, and many have something in between. Most change to external male genitalia around the time of puberty.
• AIS is the most common cause of 46, XY intersex. It has also been called testicular feminization. Here, the hormones are all normal, but the receptors to male hormones don't function properly. There are over 150 different defects that have been identified so far, and each causes a different type of AIS.

TRUE GONADAL INTERSEX
The person must have both ovarian and testicular tissue. This may be in the same gonad (an ovotestis), or the person might have 1 ovary and 1 testis. The person may have XX chromosomes, XY chromosomes, or both. The external genitals may be ambiguous or may appear to be female or male. This condition used to be called true hermaphroditism. In most people with true gonadal intersex, the underlying cause is unknown, although in some animal studies it has been linked to exposure to common agricultural pesticides.
COMPLEX OR UNDETERMINED INTERSEX DISORDERS OF SEXUAL DEVELOPMENT
Many chromosome configurations other than simple 46, XX or 46, XY can result in disorders of sex development. These include 45, XO (only one X chromosome), and 47, XXY, 47, XXX - both cases have an extra sex chromosome, either an X or a Y. These disorders do not result in a condition in which there is a discrepancy between internal and external genitalia. However, there may be problems with sex hormone levels, overall sexual development, and altered numbers of sex chromosomes.

Source: https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001669.htm

 

[andylicious]

You could not be more wrong on this issue and are at odds with the medical field. Intersex people may have both chromosomes and both genitalia. Just becuase anecdotally nobody has personally told you or showed you that they are intersex is completely immaterial to this discussion. Data on this stretches back decades too.

Intersex​

Intersex is a group of conditions in which there is a discrepancy between the external genitals and the internal genitals (the testes and ovaries).
The older term for this condition is hermaphroditism. Although the older terms are still included in this article for reference, they have been replaced by most experts, patients, and families. Increasingly, this group of conditions is being called disorders of sex development (DSDs).

Causes​

Intersex can be divided into 4 categories:

• 46, XX intersex
• 46, XY intersex
• True gonadal intersex
• Complex or undetermined intersex

Each one is discussed in more detail below.
Note: In many children, the cause of intersex may remain undetermined, even with modern diagnostic techniques.
46, XX INTERSEX
The person has the chromosomes of a woman, the ovaries of a woman, but external (outside) genitals that appear male. This most often is the result of a female fetus having been exposed to excess male hormones before birth. The labia ("lips" or folds of skin of the external female genitals) fuse, and the clitoris enlarges to appear like a penis. In most cases, this person has a normal uterus and fallopian tubes. This condition is also called 46, XX with virilization. It used to be called female pseudohermaphroditism. There are several possible causes:

• Congenital adrenal hyperplasia (the most common cause).
• Male hormones (such as testosterone) taken or encountered by the mother during pregnancy.
• Male hormone-producing tumors in the mother: These are most often ovarian tumors. Mothers who have children with 46, XX intersex should be checked unless there is another clear cause.
• Aromatase deficiency: This one may not be noticeable until puberty. Aromatase is an enzyme that normally converts male hormones to female hormones. Too much aromatase activity can lead to excess estrogen (female hormone); too little to 46, XX intersex. At puberty, these XX children, who had been raised as girls, may begin to take on male characteristics.

46, XY INTERSEX
The person has the chromosomes of a man, but the external genitals are incompletely formed, ambiguous, or clearly female. Internally, testes may be normal, malformed, or absent. This condition is also called 46, XY with undervirilization. It used to be called male pseudohermaphroditism. Formation of normal male external genitals depends on the appropriate balance between male and female hormones. Therefore, it requires the adequate production and function of male hormones. 46, XY intersex has many possible causes:

• Problems with the testes: The testes normally produce male hormones. If the testes do not form properly, it will lead to undervirilization. There are a number of possible causes for this, including XY pure gonadal dysgenesis.
• Problems with testosterone formation: Testosterone is formed through a series of steps. Each of these steps requires a different enzyme. Deficiencies in any of these enzymes can result in inadequate testosterone and produce a different syndrome of 46, XY intersex. Different types of congenital adrenal hyperplasia can fall in this category.
• Problems with using testosterone: Some people have normal testes and make adequate amounts of testosterone, but still have 46, XY intersex due to conditions such as 5-alpha-reductase deficiency or androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS).
• People with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency lack the enzyme needed to convert testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). There are at least 5 different types of 5-alpha-reductase deficiency. Some of the babies have normal male genitalia, some have normal female genitalia, and many have something in between. Most change to external male genitalia around the time of puberty.
• AIS is the most common cause of 46, XY intersex. It has also been called testicular feminization. Here, the hormones are all normal, but the receptors to male hormones don't function properly. There are over 150 different defects that have been identified so far, and each causes a different type of AIS.

TRUE GONADAL INTERSEX
The person must have both ovarian and testicular tissue. This may be in the same gonad (an ovotestis), or the person might have 1 ovary and 1 testis. The person may have XX chromosomes, XY chromosomes, or both. The external genitals may be ambiguous or may appear to be female or male. This condition used to be called true hermaphroditism. In most people with true gonadal intersex, the underlying cause is unknown, although in some animal studies it has been linked to exposure to common agricultural pesticides.
COMPLEX OR UNDETERMINED INTERSEX DISORDERS OF SEXUAL DEVELOPMENT
Many chromosome configurations other than simple 46, XX or 46, XY can result in disorders of sex development. These include 45, XO (only one X chromosome), and 47, XXY, 47, XXX - both cases have an extra sex chromosome, either an X or a Y. These disorders do not result in a condition in which there is a discrepancy between internal and external genitalia. However, there may be problems with sex hormone levels, overall sexual development, and altered numbers of sex chromosomes.

Source: https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001669.htm

I give up, you are so hung up on this it doesn’t matter. Did I not say there is a problem in the reproductive system? That’s the definition of hermaphroditism.

 

[JTOSU]

You didn’t answer my question.

Your premise was that I “disparaged a large group of people”. I haven’t.

You are either confusing me with someone or you are making something up.

 

[CowboyJD]

I had a comparative anatomy professor that was one of my favorite professors I ever had. The freshman level Zoology professor was running his mouth about evolution one day when we had our twice a year capstone class. I wish I were as eloquent in stating my beliefs as our comparative anatomy prof, he kindly told the guy to get a life and get to church and gave real reasons that I can’t match in how gentlemanly and incredibly awesome his reasoning was. I knew then I didn’t need to be ashamed of my faith anymore because my prof was the smartest guy I ever met and if he could continue to believe then I could quit doubting.

My prof didn’t persuade the zoology prof, no more than I could persuade you. I love science, I love the precision and how one thing builds to the next thing and trying to figure out why some things just are. To me it’s the delicate handiwork of a Divine Creator, to you it may just be a lot of happenstance.

That’s ok with me. You don’t have to believe as I do. I can share my views and my faith, but I can’t pull out an elaborate chart or equation to prove it. I look forward to one day knowing the answers and that my faith is proven. If I’m proven wrong one day so be it, but I’m going to hang on to what I have faith in because for me it’s right.

I can’t replicate my faith in an experiment that can be repeated over and over. I can’t put it on paper for you, but I really wish I could because it is an incredible life. I really wish I could represent my Lord and Savior better, but my nature is to be a smart ass that curses way to much. I’m a work in progress but no I can’t prove it to you.

I respect that.

I really do.

As long as you respect that others may have different faiths than you and treat them with the same dignity that you would hope to receive.

After all, none of our faith positions can be objectively, factually be proven to be the “right” or “correct” one.

 

[JTOSU]

No it’s not.

What it was is pointing out that it was a statement of faith. A metaphysical statement. A statement of belief.

That it was not a statement of objective, physical fact.

And even if it was, so what?

I like how you change even in mid-post.

EDIT: I see your post above. Well done. If I misinterpreted the point of your faith question, which it appears I may well have, my apologies.

 

[Stillwater Townie]

Easy. All sin can be washed away through the blood of Christ. The argument from the gay movement is that homosexuality is not a sin at all.

True, but why should homosexuality be a sin? Is it because very long ago most straights and God found that the anal and oral sex acts that homosexuals engage in to be quite incredibly gross, unsanitary and offensive? Therefore, it was reasoned that such people should be treated as sinful, third-class people even worthy of death? Surely many straights find such sex acts also too offensive to engage in even with the opposite sex. So that must have been where sodomy laws came from. For these modern times, though, many people have a let and let live attitude toward consensual adult sex as long as somebody doesn't try to draw them into something offensive.

 

[PF5]

My, and several others, problem with homosexuality is obviously based on our Christian faith

because it's a sin? (your words, not mine)

 

[GOGETUMPOKE]

because it's a sin? (your words, not mine)

Yes, obviously.

 

[CowboyJD]

I like how you change even in mid-post.

EDIT: I see your post above. Well done. If I misinterpreted the point of your faith question, which it appears I may well have, my apologies.

Not my problem that you seem to be unable to deal with alternate propositions and two concepts within a single post.

I said I wasn't questioning his faith, but IF I was....there is nothing wrong with that either.

Now a conditional non-apology apology.

At least you're consistent.

 

[PF5]

Yes, obviously.

so then do you also shun people 'committing' these sins that are mentioned in the Bible?!
Adultery—Matthew 5:27-28, 32; 19:9, 18; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Hebrews 13:4; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Mark 7:21; John 8:1-11

Anger—Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 4:26, 31; 6:4; Colossians 3:8; James 1:19-20

Anger with one’s brother—Matthew 5:22

Arrogance—2 Timothy 3:2; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Corinthians 4:6, 18,19; 5:2; 8:1; 13:4

Bitterness—Ephesians 4:31; Hebrews 12:15; Romans 2:24; 3:14; Acts 8:23; James 2:7

Blasphemy—Mark 8:38; Acts 18:6

Boasting—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Galatians 5:26; 1 Corinthians 4:7; 5:6

Brutality—2 Timothy 3:3

Brother going to Law against brother—1 Corinthians 6:1-7

Carousing—Romans 13:13; Galatians 5:21; 1 Peter 4:3

Clamor—Ephesians 4:31

Complaining—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Conceit—2 Timothy 3:4

Coveting—Mark 7:22; Ephesians 5:5; Acts 20:33; Romans 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:1

Cowardice—Revelation 21:8

Deceit—Mark 7:22; Acts 13:10; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:10

Defrauding—1 Corinthians 6:7-8

Denying Christ—Matthew 10:33; Luke 12:9; 1 John 2:22-23

Desiring praise of men—John 12:43

Disobedience to parents—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Titus 3:3

Divisions—1 Corinthians 1:10

Divorce—Matthew 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18

Drinking parties—1 Peter 4:3

Drunkenness—Romans 13:13; 15: 13; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:10; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:3

Eating the Bread or drinking the Cup unworthily—1 Corinthians 11:27

Effeminacy—1 Corinthians 6:9

Enmities—Galatians 5:20

Envy—Mark 7:22; Galatians 5:26; Titus 3:3

Evil thoughts—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19

False witnessing—Matthew 15:19

Fathers, provoking children to wrath—Colossians 3:21

Fearfulness—Matthew 10:26, 28

Filthiness—Ephesians 4:3

Fleshliness–1 Corinthians 3:3

Foolishness—Mark 7:22; Titus 3:3

Foolish talking—Ephesians 5:4

Fornication (or sexual immorality)—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:19

Greed—Ephesians 4:19; 5:3; 2 Peter 2:14

Lust, lusting—1 Peter 4:3; Titus 3:3

Haters of God—Romans 1:30

Hatred—2 Timothy 3:3; Titus 3:3

Hypocrisy—Matthew 23:13,23, 25; 23, 27,28, 29; Mark 12:15; Luke 12:1; Romans 12:9

Idolatry—1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9; Galatians 5:20; Revelations 21:8; Ephesians 5:5

Immorality (see also Fornication)—Galatians 5:19; Revelation 21:8; Ephesians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; 6:13, 18

Impurity—Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5: 3, 5

Jealousy—Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; James 3:16

Jesting—Ephesians 5:4

Judging—Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 2:1; 14:13; Luke 6:37 James 4:11

Knowing to do good but not doing it—James 4:17

Laying up treasures on earth—Matthew 6:19-21; 19:21; 1 Timothy 6:9-10; Luke 12:21, 33; 18:22

Legal matters, court–1 Corinthians 6:1-6

Living for pleasure—2 Timothy 3:4

Lovers of self—2 Timothy 3:2

Loving another person more than Jesus—Matthew 10:37; Luke 14:26

Lusting after a woman—Matthew 5:27-28; 1 Peter 4:3; Matthew 18:9

Lying—Revelation 21:8, 27; 22:15; Ephesians 4:25; Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:7

Malice—Romans 1:29; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 5:8; Titus 3:3; 2 Peter 2:1

Man praying or prophesying with head covered—1 Corinthians 11:4-16

Murder—Revelation 21:8; Mark 7:21; 5:21; 10: 19; 19:18; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Murmuring, complaining—Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Pride—Mark 7:22; 1 Peter 5:5, 6; James 4:6; Matthew 23:12; Luke 14:11; 18;14

Prostitution–1 Corinthians 615-16

Quarrels—James 4:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:11; 2 Timothy 2:23

Reviling—1 Corinthians 4:17; 5:11; 6:10; 5:11; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Peter 2:23

Sensuality—Galatians 5:19; Mark 7:22; Romans 13:13; 2 Corinthians 12:21; 1 Peter 4:3; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:2

Slander—Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Corinthians 4:13; Romans 1:30

Sorcery—Galatians 5:20; Revelation 21:8, 15; 9:21; 18:23

Speaking against the Holy Spirit—Matthew 12:32; Luke 12:10

Stealing—Ephesians 4:28; 13:9; Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 2:21; 13:9

Strife, quarreling—Galatians 5:20; Romans 1:29; 13:13; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 1 Timothy 6:4

Swearing an oath—Matthew 6:34-37; James 5:12

Swindling—1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10

Thievery, theft—1 Corinthians 6:10; Mark 7:21; John 10:1, 8; 1 Peter 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Treachery—2 Timothy 3:4

Unbelief, lack of faith—James 1:6; Mark 9:24; Hebrews 3:12, 19; 1 Timothy 5:8; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15; 7:13; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Titus 1:15; Revelation 21:8

Unforgiveness—Matthew 6:14-15; Mark 11:25-26

Ungodliness—Romans 1:18; 4:5; 5:6; 1 Timothy 1:9; 2 Timothy 2:16; Titus 2:12; 2 Peter 2:5, 6, 7

Ungratefulness—2 Tmothy 3:2; Romans 1:21; Luke 6:35; 2 Timothy 3:2

Unholiness—2 Timothy 3:2; Hebrews 12:14

Unrighteousness—Romans 1:18, 29; 2:8; 6:13; 1 John 1:9; 5:17; 1 Corinthians 6:9

Wickedness—Mark 7:22; Luke 11:39; Acts 8:22; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:8, 13; Ephesians 6:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 12; 2 Timothy 2:19

Woman cutting her hair short—1 Corinthians 1:14-15

Woman with her Head uncovered—1 Corinthians 11:5-16

Woman speaking or teaching in public—1 Timothy 2:11-15; 1 Corinthians 11:33-37

Wrath—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 1 Timothy 2:8

Wrong–1 Corinthians 6:8

 

[GOGETUMPOKE]

so then do you also shun people 'committing' these sins that are mentioned in the Bible?!
Adultery—Matthew 5:27-28, 32; 19:9, 18; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Hebrews 13:4; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Mark 7:21; John 8:1-11

Anger—Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 4:26, 31; 6:4; Colossians 3:8; James 1:19-20

Anger with one’s brother—Matthew 5:22

Arrogance—2 Timothy 3:2; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Corinthians 4:6, 18,19; 5:2; 8:1; 13:4

Bitterness—Ephesians 4:31; Hebrews 12:15; Romans 2:24; 3:14; Acts 8:23; James 2:7

Blasphemy—Mark 8:38; Acts 18:6

Boasting—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Galatians 5:26; 1 Corinthians 4:7; 5:6

Brutality—2 Timothy 3:3

Brother going to Law against brother—1 Corinthians 6:1-7

Carousing—Romans 13:13; Galatians 5:21; 1 Peter 4:3

Clamor—Ephesians 4:31

Complaining—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Conceit—2 Timothy 3:4

Coveting—Mark 7:22; Ephesians 5:5; Acts 20:33; Romans 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:1

Cowardice—Revelation 21:8

Deceit—Mark 7:22; Acts 13:10; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:10

Defrauding—1 Corinthians 6:7-8

Denying Christ—Matthew 10:33; Luke 12:9; 1 John 2:22-23

Desiring praise of men—John 12:43

Disobedience to parents—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Titus 3:3

Divisions—1 Corinthians 1:10

Divorce—Matthew 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18

Drinking parties—1 Peter 4:3

Drunkenness—Romans 13:13; 15: 13; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:10; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:3

Eating the Bread or drinking the Cup unworthily—1 Corinthians 11:27

Effeminacy—1 Corinthians 6:9

Enmities—Galatians 5:20

Envy—Mark 7:22; Galatians 5:26; Titus 3:3

Evil thoughts—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19

False witnessing—Matthew 15:19

Fathers, provoking children to wrath—Colossians 3:21

Fearfulness—Matthew 10:26, 28

Filthiness—Ephesians 4:3

Fleshliness–1 Corinthians 3:3

Foolishness—Mark 7:22; Titus 3:3

Foolish talking—Ephesians 5:4

Fornication (or sexual immorality)—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:19

Greed—Ephesians 4:19; 5:3; 2 Peter 2:14

Lust, lusting—1 Peter 4:3; Titus 3:3

Haters of God—Romans 1:30

Hatred—2 Timothy 3:3; Titus 3:3

Hypocrisy—Matthew 23:13,23, 25; 23, 27,28, 29; Mark 12:15; Luke 12:1; Romans 12:9

Idolatry—1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9; Galatians 5:20; Revelations 21:8; Ephesians 5:5

Immorality (see also Fornication)—Galatians 5:19; Revelation 21:8; Ephesians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; 6:13, 18

Impurity—Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5: 3, 5

Jealousy—Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; James 3:16

Jesting—Ephesians 5:4

Judging—Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 2:1; 14:13; Luke 6:37 James 4:11

Knowing to do good but not doing it—James 4:17

Laying up treasures on earth—Matthew 6:19-21; 19:21; 1 Timothy 6:9-10; Luke 12:21, 33; 18:22

Legal matters, court–1 Corinthians 6:1-6

Living for pleasure—2 Timothy 3:4

Lovers of self—2 Timothy 3:2

Loving another person more than Jesus—Matthew 10:37; Luke 14:26

Lusting after a woman—Matthew 5:27-28; 1 Peter 4:3; Matthew 18:9

Lying—Revelation 21:8, 27; 22:15; Ephesians 4:25; Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:7

Malice—Romans 1:29; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 5:8; Titus 3:3; 2 Peter 2:1

Man praying or prophesying with head covered—1 Corinthians 11:4-16

Murder—Revelation 21:8; Mark 7:21; 5:21; 10: 19; 19:18; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Murmuring, complaining—Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9

Pride—Mark 7:22; 1 Peter 5:5, 6; James 4:6; Matthew 23:12; Luke 14:11; 18;14

Prostitution–1 Corinthians 615-16

Quarrels—James 4:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:11; 2 Timothy 2:23

Reviling—1 Corinthians 4:17; 5:11; 6:10; 5:11; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Peter 2:23

Sensuality—Galatians 5:19; Mark 7:22; Romans 13:13; 2 Corinthians 12:21; 1 Peter 4:3; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:2

Slander—Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Corinthians 4:13; Romans 1:30

Sorcery—Galatians 5:20; Revelation 21:8, 15; 9:21; 18:23

Speaking against the Holy Spirit—Matthew 12:32; Luke 12:10

Stealing—Ephesians 4:28; 13:9; Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 2:21; 13:9

Strife, quarreling—Galatians 5:20; Romans 1:29; 13:13; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 1 Timothy 6:4

Swearing an oath—Matthew 6:34-37; James 5:12

Swindling—1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10

Thievery, theft—1 Corinthians 6:10; Mark 7:21; John 10:1, 8; 1 Peter 4:15; Matthew 15:19

Treachery—2 Timothy 3:4

Unbelief, lack of faith—James 1:6; Mark 9:24; Hebrews 3:12, 19; 1 Timothy 5:8; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15; 7:13; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Titus 1:15; Revelation 21:8

Unforgiveness—Matthew 6:14-15; Mark 11:25-26

Ungodliness—Romans 1:18; 4:5; 5:6; 1 Timothy 1:9; 2 Timothy 2:16; Titus 2:12; 2 Peter 2:5, 6, 7

Ungratefulness—2 Tmothy 3:2; Romans 1:21; Luke 6:35; 2 Timothy 3:2

Unholiness—2 Timothy 3:2; Hebrews 12:14

Unrighteousness—Romans 1:18, 29; 2:8; 6:13; 1 John 1:9; 5:17; 1 Corinthians 6:9

Wickedness—Mark 7:22; Luke 11:39; Acts 8:22; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:8, 13; Ephesians 6:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 12; 2 Timothy 2:19

Woman cutting her hair short—1 Corinthians 1:14-15

Woman with her Head uncovered—1 Corinthians 11:5-16

Woman speaking or teaching in public—1 Timothy 2:11-15; 1 Corinthians 11:33-37

Wrath—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 1 Timothy 2:8

Wrong–1 Corinthians 6:8

I'm not shunning anyone. Homosexuality is a sin just like all of the things you listed are sins. I sin about 100 times a day so I consider myself sort of an expert. What exactly is your point?

 

[GratefulPoke]

I give up, you are so hung up on this it doesn’t matter. Did I not say there is a problem in the reproductive system? That’s the definition of hermaphroditism.

You cant just acknowledge the facts here, so of course there ia going to be a hang up.

 

[PF5]

I'm not shunning anyone. Homosexuality is a sin just like all of the things you listed are sins. I sin about 100 times a day so I consider myself sort of an expert. What exactly is your point?

Your reputation (on this board) precedes you...you have a major problem with LGBTQ+ people and so I was wondering if you maybe think their 'sin' is bigger than your 100 sins you commit daily? And why do some churches not accept LGBTQ+, but accept gamblers, divorcees, adulterers, drunks, cussers, etc...last question not really directed at you, just thought you and/or others would have an opinion about it...

 

[Polds4OSU]

Your reputation (on this board) precedes you...you have a major problem with LGBTQ+ people and so I was wondering if you maybe think their 'sin' is bigger than your 100 sins you commit daily? And why do some churches not accept LGBTQ+, but accept gamblers, divorcees, adulterers, drunks, cussers, etc...last question not really directed at you, just thought you and/or others would have an opinion about it...

come on you know the answer to that. Humans have created Socially Accepted Sins which won't even stop you from being a pastor and leading a church every day. They Invite daily sinners into their midst as long as it was socially acceptable sins and publicly praise them and honor them. Give them leadership positions in church.

However, they also have a list of Non Socially Accepted Sins which they refuse to let those people enter their buildings and publicly attack them as abominations to God.

You know....just exactly how the Bible explains it

Catholics used to make you pay for the Church to look the other way and still allow you be part of the Church. They called it indulgences, but you had to pay the Church for them to Socially accept your Sins..and it was UNLIMITED and Sanctioned by the Pope.

People don't even have to pay anymore for the Church to look the other way on a whole LIST of Sins....


I guess back in the day you could. PAY AWAY THE GAY

 

[GOGETUMPOKE]

Your reputation (on this board) precedes you...you have a major problem with LGBTQ+ people and so I was wondering if you maybe think their 'sin' is bigger than your 100 sins you commit daily? And why do some churches not accept LGBTQ+, but accept gamblers, divorcees, adulterers, drunks, cussers, etc...last question not really directed at you, just thought you and/or others would have an opinion about it...

My major problem with LGBTQ+, as you put it, is that they expect (demand) that we not only accept their sin but celebrate it. Name one other sin that we do that for or take "Pride" in. Are we going to have "Adulterers Pride Month" in August? I don't think that being gay or even practicing homosexuality is a bigger sin than any one of the sins that I commit daily . The difference is that I'm convicted of my sin and I repent and confess and ask for forgiveness . I certainly wouldn't expect you to look the other way, or even worse condone, my alcoholism or adultery, just because it makes me uncomfortable. Sin is sin and it is the duty of Christ following churches to call it out not promote it. As far as churches not accepting gays I will tell you that I go to church with a congregation completely full of sinners every single Sunday. No person ever has been or ever will be turned away regardless of their sin. Will we tell them that their particular sin is ok? Absolutely not. Make sense?