Sunday Morning Coaches Week 4: Stranded in Iowa edition
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Scared money don’t make money.
The door opens, the door closes.
Fear is very unattractive.
I’m sure the Kim family has done some great things for North Korea in the past, but the country may benefit from some different ideologies.
The door opens, the door closes.
Fear is very unattractive.
I’m sure the Kim family has done some great things for North Korea in the past, but the country may benefit from some different ideologies.
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There’s a lot of fearless leader types on this board
That hasn't actually been our history or their history either. Losing our coaches to better programs has actually been a rare occurrence. What usually happens is we hire a new coach, have a few good years, slide back into mediocrity or worse, fire the coach, rinse repeat. The Miles-Gundy years have gotten us so accustomed to success that we now have an entire generation of fans who really don't know anything about our history have absolutely no perspective. At one point in time Kansas State was the worse program in FBS, right down there with Rutgers. They were everyones' homecoming invite. Iowa State's history is not much better.
What on earth do you see that tells you this, because I can't see it. What I see: flushes from the pocket when he doesn't need to, gives up ground when he doesn't need to, throws off his back foot when he doesn't need to, throws the ball away. That's about half of his throws. Not sure how you see his pre-snap reads and command of the O out of that.
People keep talking about our head coaches being hired away by bigger programs. It isn't our history. In our modern history, since 1939 it's happened three times: Jennings Whitworth, Jimmy Johnson and Les Miles.++
Jim Lookabaugh 1939–1949 0.581 retired
*Jennings B. Whitworth 1950–1954 0.451 Alabama, Georgia (assistant)
Cliff Speegle 1955–1962 0.463 Toronto Argonauts (asst), Texas Western (asst)
Phil Cutchin 1963–1968 0.339 didn't coach after this
Floyd Gass 1969–1971 0.422 OSU AD 1971-1978, didn't coach after this
Dave Smith 1972 0.636 SMU, Garland HS (TX) OC
Jim Stanley 1973–1978 0.529 asst coach with Giants, Falcons, Bucs and Oilers
*Jimmy Johnson 1979–1983 0.535 Miami U, Cowboys, Dolphins
Pat Jones 1984–1994 0.508 asst with Dolphins, Raiders
Bob Simmons 1995–2000 0.441 asst at Notre Dame, Washington, HC Boulder HS (CO)
*Les Miles 2001–2004 0.571 LSU, Kansas
Mike Gundy 2005–present 0.675
What is more typical is that we hire a coach, have a good year or two, return to mediocrity or worse, the coach resigns or is fired, then rinse repeat. I say again, we have had so much success the past 20 some-odd years that we have an entire generation of fans who don't know our history and have absolutely no perspective.
++I didn't count Dave Smith. He only coached a year and you can argue that SMU was a lateral move, though SMU wouldn't argue that.
Jim Lookabaugh 1939–1949 0.581 retired
*Jennings B. Whitworth 1950–1954 0.451 Alabama, Georgia (assistant)
Cliff Speegle 1955–1962 0.463 Toronto Argonauts (asst), Texas Western (asst)
Phil Cutchin 1963–1968 0.339 didn't coach after this
Floyd Gass 1969–1971 0.422 OSU AD 1971-1978, didn't coach after this
Dave Smith 1972 0.636 SMU, Garland HS (TX) OC
Jim Stanley 1973–1978 0.529 asst coach with Giants, Falcons, Bucs and Oilers
*Jimmy Johnson 1979–1983 0.535 Miami U, Cowboys, Dolphins
Pat Jones 1984–1994 0.508 asst with Dolphins, Raiders
Bob Simmons 1995–2000 0.441 asst at Notre Dame, Washington, HC Boulder HS (CO)
*Les Miles 2001–2004 0.571 LSU, Kansas
Mike Gundy 2005–present 0.675
What is more typical is that we hire a coach, have a good year or two, return to mediocrity or worse, the coach resigns or is fired, then rinse repeat. I say again, we have had so much success the past 20 some-odd years that we have an entire generation of fans who don't know our history and have absolutely no perspective.
++I didn't count Dave Smith. He only coached a year and you can argue that SMU was a lateral move, though SMU wouldn't argue that.
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There's no rule that says we must repeat our history. Also, the last 20 years represent 23.8% of your history range presented above. At this point, wouldn't you consider that "part of our history"? The generation of fans that have seen high levels of success are just as valid of fans as those who saw us perpetually suck for most of their lives.
Point being; our football program isn't destined to be anything or resigned to a particular fate. We control our destiny. The last 20 years should be a springboard that elevates our program to a new level, not an outlier against an assured fate based on historical data.
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Perspective and objectivity. The two rarest things in the OSU universe.
So everything being discussed recently about why realignment shifted as it did has no influence on the way prospective coaches view OSU/Stillwater?
With more changes looming and fewer seats being left at the table, where does that leave a small market, land grant school?
Only part of it is history...the other half is geography...both physical & political (realignment, etc)...
Soothsayer
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It just a little funny that you list Jimmy Johnson's next jobs as Miami and the Dolphins while leaving out the Cowboys. LOL.
I wasn't presenting an exhaustive list of all factors. I was primarily addressing how "history" shapes our present and future, and arguing that we actually aren't doomed to repeat it.
Of course there are many other factors that will influence our future....geography being one of them...
Beg to differ. With our size, donor base and location I think our destiny is pretty much set. We can’t compete with any of the top tier programs because we just don’t have a set up to pay the players enough to stay. Sucks but that’s the way it is unless we find another TBP, or a super collective and that’s kind of unlikely. PWAP is great, but it’s just not enough. I see our future as a perennial stepping stone school for the 3 stars or small program portal gets we’re able to recruit that turn out to be hidden gems. Not just us, I think there’s going to wind up being an entire minor league of schools that just exist to feed the big dogs but will be able to surprise the elites once in awhile and keep some type of respect. It’s just the opening salvo’s but war’s been declared and college football as we knew it 6 years ago is dead. But what the hell do I know?
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Oops.
Herecomesbullet
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Les Miles went to LSU. Jimmy Johnson went to Miami. Before Gundy, that's 50% of our coaches since the early 80's. And, Pat Jones was having great success until probation brought his tenure down. Again, see post on how places like KState, OSU, Iowa State etc... aren't losing coaches to bigger schools like they have in the past, like the past given above and the evidence provided.
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I think we're saying the same thing. Everything you described is post-snap.
The true freshman is the future and they don't want him hitting the portal because a young guy is the starter.
If you only count Jimmy Johnson and Les Miles that’s 100% of our coaches. That’s called “cherry picking” data. It actually disproves your point rather than proving it.
I don’t think KState has EVER lost a coach to a bigger program in their entire history. They have had an N=1 of great coaches, Bill Snyder, and he has retired there now twice. And for my money he might just be the greatest coach in FBS history for the turn around he engineered at KSU.
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SMU raised $100 million NIL in 7 days. I don’t know that we have those kind of donors.
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