Sunday Morning Coaches: The Final Bedlam Edition

[Backin82]

I don’t think it clearly shows that at all. To me, the defender grabbed him and pulled him out of bounds. If you watch the video it looks pretty obvious that his trajectory was changed. It was just a missed call like the no call on a face mask and when they shoved Ollie hard after the whistle. No calls are part of the game and if it ends close it’s easy for fans to focus on one thing.

They lost because they turned it over 3 times (and even more on downs). With all that, they still had the ball with plenty of time to win it at the end. They weren’t good enough and lost. That’s it

Looked to me like that crew decided to let them play from the outset, and were pretty consistent calling it as such.

That play where Ollie got "shoved hard" was more of a flop on his part. Yes, the defender shoved him, but nothing like his flailing indicated, and the ref actually chewed him out for the flop. He's done it several times in earlier games as well. I was surprised HE didn't get flagged based on how the ref wasn't having it.

The play where Bowman got knocked down out of bounds WAS 100% a missed call. Should have been a 15 yard penalty on the sideline staff for that garbage. I recall seeing it live, but couldn't see exactly why he flew sideways like that. It didn't look like he slipped. I thought a player actually hit him late, and assumed a flag was coming (none came).

They also missed several holding calls, one obvious/egregious one on a WR screen. I have no idea how it wasn't called (against OU).

They also seemed to let the WR/CB battles play out, and didn't call many interference calls all game (both ways).

Personally, I think that play against Stoops was one of the most blatant non-calls I've seen in a long time. I also don't care at all, because we've been on the receiving end of that many times in the past. Glad they get to live with that bitterness for eternity... They deserve it.

 

[PokitN]

Just a reminder of this absolutely egregious reversal from 2017:

https://x.com/TBGoPokes/status/1721521980581568789?s=20

 

[orngblkzebra]

Well, actually, no, it was not pass interference. According to a Big 12 official, Stoops stepped out of bounds with his right heel before being interfered with. Anything that happens after that point does not constitute pass interference. The second that his heel went out of bounds, he became an ineligible receiver. The only thing that could’ve been called at that point is unnecessary roughness and the play was not egregious enough to constitute unnecessary roughness. Everyone is up in arms because the play happens so quickly and in real time speed it does appear to be pass interference. The media and those calling the game could’ve easily shown this shot that I’m posting but instead they chose to go with the controversy. This is a whole lot of fuss about nothing because the play happens so fast and it was not reviewed by ABC closely enough. Here’s a picture that I paused on my TV and took with my phone clearly showing that his heel was out of bounds before being interfered with.

I don’t think it clearly shows that at all. To me, the defender grabbed him and pulled him out of bounds. If you watch the video it looks pretty obvious that his trajectory was changed. It was just a missed call like the no call on a face mask and when they shoved Ollie hard after the whistle. No calls are part of the game and if it ends close it’s easy for fans to focus on one thing.

They lost because they turned it over 3 times (and even more on downs). With all that, they still had the ball with plenty of time to win it at the end. They weren’t good enough and lost. That’s it

I was toying around with the what-ifs last night as well. Watching the play at half speed, there is no question: PI. However, at full speed there is so much going on, there's no wonder the flag wasn't thrown. 11 has an inside position but has lost a step to Stoops. As he catches up to make the play Stoops puts out his arm into Smith's chest and you can see his body change direction to the outside of Stoops (trips, stumbles, whatever). Simultaneously, Smith has turned his head toward the ball. As Smith begins to fall away from Stoops, he does begin to grab at Stoops' arms, but also, Stoops almost stops to change his orientation and speed to the trajectory of the ball. Stoops nearly catches it because he falls and it falls into his arm (out of bounds). This is in addition to Stoops stepping out of bounds.
Also, what is lost in the conversation is the position of the ref. Because of our sideline, there is only so much of an angle that he can take to the play. In the replay it appears as though he is within 10ft of the players (could be wrong). At that angle, his field of vision may be narrowed and he simply saw what he saw. Either the foot out of bounds, Smith's head turned toward the ball, etc. and did not see (in real time, and the angle of bodies) Stoops' change of body orientation as a result of Smith pulling him down. From one angle it could appear as incidental feet tangling or something...
Anyway, sweet/salty tears...

 

[DxCowboy]

Just a reminder of this absolutely egregious reversal from 2017:

https://x.com/TBGoPokes/status/1721521980581568789?s=20

Thank you, that one was as bad as it gets.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

I was toying around with the what-ifs last night as well. Watching the play at half speed, there is no question: PI. However, at full speed there is so much going on, there's no wonder the flag wasn't thrown. 11 has an inside position but has lost a step to Stoops. As he catches up to make the play Stoops puts out his arm into Smith's chest and you can see his body change direction to the outside of Stoops (trips, stumbles, whatever). Simultaneously, Smith has turned his head toward the ball. As Smith begins to fall away from Stoops, he does begin to grab at Stoops' arms, but also, Stoops almost stops to change his orientation and speed to the trajectory of the ball. Stoops nearly catches it because he falls and it falls into his arm (out of bounds). This is in addition to Stoops stepping out of bounds.
Also, what is lost in the conversation is the position of the ref. Because of our sideline, there is only so much of an angle that he can take to the play. In the replay it appears as though he is within 10ft of the players (could be wrong). At that angle, his field of vision may be narrowed and he simply saw what he saw. Either the foot out of bounds, Smith's head turned toward the ball, etc. and did not see (in real time, and the angle of bodies) Stoops' change of body orientation as a result of Smith pulling him down. From one angle it could appear as incidental feet tangling or something...
Anyway, sweet/salty tears...

I’ve seen a screen grab of the play looking down the sideline from the West End Zone. Smith and Stoops are at the 2 so the ball is in the air ( but not in the frame. Smith with inside leverage and Stoops w both arms extended clearly pushing smith to get separation. I wish I could see the video continuation because I’d bet your description is spot on.

 

[Backin82]

I’ve seen a screen grab of the play looking down the sideline from the West End Zone. Smith and Stoops are at the 2 so the ball is in the air ( but not in the frame. Smith with inside leverage and Stoops w both arms extended clearly pushing smith to get separation. I wish I could see the video continuation because I’d bet your description is spot on.

Maybe the ref saw the arm extension at the 2 yard line, decided to let them play, and ate his whistle when Smith returned the favor. Again, I think they decided to let them play all game, and this was just one of the many results.

 

[orngblkzebra]

That play where Ollie got "shoved hard" was more of a flop on his part. Yes, the defender shoved him, but nothing like his flailing indicated, and the ref actually chewed him out for the flop. He's done it several times in earlier games as well. I was surprised HE didn't get flagged based on how the ref wasn't having it.

uh...

watch it again.

At first, I thought Ollie tripped on the guy on the ground behind him...however, goon shoves him hard both hands...full extension...and then is like "oh I sorry"...yeah, hard no on that one.

 

[Backin82]

uh...

watch it again.

At first, I thought Ollie tripped on the guy on the ground behind him...however, goon shoves him hard both hands...full extension...and then is like "oh I sorry"...yeah, hard no on that one.

I recall it vividly. He definitely got shoved, but it was a typical push off, and shouldn't have made him go flying like he did. He was acting, and the ref approached him afterwards to warn him not to do it again. I've seen him do it on multiple prior occasions, and it wouldn't surprise me if the refs were warned about it ahead of time.

I'm actually glad the refs called nothing, there. Let 'em play.

 

[DxCowboy]

To me, the play is emblematic of what I've been complaining about the entire season. There's very little consistency in calling PI across the sport-NFL too.

It was much earlier in the game on the north sideline as we were driving toward GIA, but Leon Johnson got absolutely run threw by the defender as the ball arrived, db's head never even got turned to the ball (and I realize you can face guard in college) and is body to body with Johnson grabbing his arms as the ball arrives. See it every week now.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

Maybe the ref saw the arm extension at the 2 yard line, decided to let them play, and ate his whistle when Smith returned the favor. Again, I think they decided to let them play all game, and this was just one of the many results.

Sorry I’m not very good at this technology thing but this is a screen grab of the screen grab I saw.

 

[orngblkzebra]

I recall it vividly. He definitely got shoved, but it was a typical push off, and shouldn't have made him go flying like he did. He was acting, and the ref approached him afterwards to warn him not to do it again. I've seen him do it on multiple prior occasions, and it wouldn't surprise me if the refs were warned about it ahead of time.

I'm actually glad the refs called nothing, there. Let 'em play.

Either way he was going to the ground from a hard shove after the whistle

https://twitter.com/x/status/1721133389661528239

 

[MustangPokeFan]

Maybe the ref saw the arm extension at the 2 yard line, decided to let them play, and ate his whistle when Smith returned the favor. Again, I think they decided to let them play all game, and this was just one of the many results.

Or maybe his right heel was on the out of bounds line as the screen grab clearly shows. Doesn’t matter what happens after that point, he is ineligible!

 

[DxCowboy]

Or maybe his right heel was on the out of bounds line as the screen grab clearly shows. Doesn’t matter what happens after that point, he is ineligible!

Maybe, but they didn't indicate that like they often do singaling the WR out of bounds.

I did enjoy watching OU and UT fans comisserate yesterday talking about how the Big 12 refs have been out to get them for the last 2 years, and 2 weeks after UT gets that call against Houston. Yeah, they're really out to get you guys.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

It’s been posted before but if someone believes that was DPI on Smith and affected the outcome of the game then you have to go back to our 1st half FG on the same end and watch Josiah get assaulted during his entire route on 3rd down. If you claim it was not a catchable ball then you have to call holding or illegal contact downfield. Would have resulted in 1st down from the 13. Instead we got 3.

End of the day we won the last bedlam.

 

[JRod]

Either way he was going to the ground from a hard shove after the whistle

https://twitter.com/x/status/1721133389661528239

Yes Ollie flopped. BUT ALSO yes it should have gotten a flag. It was way after the whistle. I think if he just falls down and doesn’t do a “jump flop” he gets the flag.

 

[JRod]

There was also an egregious missed late hit out of bounds.

Anyway, as someone else mentioned, the missed PI happened with a lot of time left in the game and the goons still had plenty of opportunity to tie or win in the end. If it was the last play or drive of the game then MAYBE they have a legitimate beef. But as it happened, it should be lumped into the numerous other missed calls.

 

[JRod]

Or maybe his right heel was on the out of bounds line as the screen grab clearly shows. Doesn’t matter what happens after that point, he is ineligible!

This is not true. If he is forced out of bounds by the defender (as I think he was), he can re-establish himself inbounds and catch the ball. You don’t automatically get PI immunity just because the offensive player goes out of bounds.

 

[Duke Silver]

Big 12 officials say it was not pi. They got their feet tangled prior to this so everything is nullified

 

[MT Cowboy]

Just a reminder of this absolutely egregious reversal from 2017:

https://x.com/TBGoPokes/status/1721521980581568789?s=20

This was the most blatant f@ckery I've ever seen and absolutely gifted them a W in 2017. Changed the entire trajectory of the game.

 

[jetman]

A little Head Country barbecue sauce makes it go down easy...

That's all we ever use at my house.