And I’m the crazy one here. Call me when he starts killing all the Jews and Japan attacks our naval base. I’ll get the nukes ready
Ukraine. Ukraine. Ukraine.
- Thread starter Llcoolw
- Start date
With the current conflict, we can look at Crimea as an example of what would happen in Ukraine as a whole if Russia has a complete victory.
Russia's Crimea annexation looks a lot like ethnic cleansing - Asia Times
Basking in his wholly expected re-election victory, Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed a large crowd in Moscow’s Red Square on March 18 to mark
asiatimes.com
With the current conflict, we can look at Crimea as an example of what would happen in Ukraine as a whole if Russia has a complete victory.
Russia's Crimea annexation looks a lot like ethnic cleansing - Asia Times
Basking in his wholly expected re-election victory, Russian President Vladimir Putin addressed a large crowd in Moscow’s Red Square on March 18 to mark
That and the world didn't know about what we now call the Holocaust until well into the war.
Also, the Korean War is a perfect example of war working.
Okay carry on everyone. F*** Putin.
Yes, you are the crazy one. The war started in 1939. Japan did not attack us until late 1941. The holocaust was understood in 1942. Had we let Japan take all of Asia and if we let Hitler take all of Europe with no lend-lease etc, we probably would have known even less. But, the US probably would not have had to fight in the 1940s. I suppose the axis powers might have been happy to take all of Asia and Europe and leave the US in peace in the Americas, but I doubt it.
And, if you are trying to claim that Putin is not killing off people for politics you are even crazier.
Since you seem to be implying that your current pacifism would not apply to the similar situation of Germany picking off Eastern European countries, what exactly would Putin need to do in order to concern you?
mugatu
Ranger
True. It's not big enough. They draft to maintain troop counts along with the volunteers. You know what, Russia has had to conscript as well.
The big difference is the loss of conscripts in Russia is harder on the government position than it is in Ukraine. No large group in Ukraine is going to say - even in the shadows - we need to stop fighting ASAP, or that they wish they'd stop attacking Russian troops. Do you think the same can be said for the impact of Russian losses in their drafted soldiers?
You REALLY don't listen do you. They don't have some magic weapons or troops. They haven't been holding back.
Russia pulled all their Navy away from Crimea because it kept getting sunk. The waters off Ukraine are not that important to Ukraine combat wise. As long as the grain shipments are allowed, that's really all they need. Without a navy they have beaten Russias navy. They've essentially shut down the bridge to Crimea a couple times (not sure if open now or not), they've prevented ships from standing offshore lobbying cruise missiles at them. They've won that battle.
You are largely correct here. Your issue is you think cutting back prior to peace being negotiated and a ceasefire being signed is the way to win. You don't win a race by jogging across the line. They are in a sprint until everyone is at the negotiating table.
Ukraine will not win, but they can't quit fighting, they must make Rusdia pay every second of every day until peace is reached. Otherwise there will be no peace.
PF5
Ranger
1,000 days of war in Ukraine in graphics – DW – 11/18/2024
As Ukraine marks 1,000 days since Russian troops invaded on February 24, 2022, DW looks at the numbers behind a war that has led to an estimated 1 million deaths and displaced several million more people.
www.dw.com
By 1939 Hitler rolls into Poland. By 1941 he had control of Denmark, Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Yugoslavia, Greece, and France.....had invaded N Africa and began staging for the UK by surrounding it on all sides but open ocean. Because when you want to take over the world or a large chunk of it you take out the easy parts first. Germany had also sank civilian ships at that point. In the same time period Putin has taken less half of the land mass of the Ukraine and made no military moves towards other nations. So it's a little different. It was known Hitler was rounding up "undesirables" before the extent of the Holocaust was known so don't like we knew nothing. Germany didn't have tactical nukes.....much less enough to destroy the world. This is different. As I said earlier I don't think Putin has good or just intentions here.....he knows he can't go marching across Europe now.....he doesn't have the resources for that. He does to fight Ukraine longer than they can fight him.
I have never said Putin isn't killing people for political reasons. I have never defended Putin in any way. I have said we have broken our word regarding the region and pulled out of treaties involving the region. Those are two different things and the broken promises and dropped treaties are not opinion they are known facts. It doesn't make invading a country and killing thousands "ok" but it isn't true to say nothing was done to worry Russia. Again this isn't black and white.
Putin concerns the hell out of me now. Biden concerns the hell out of me now. Trump concerns the hell out of me now. Zelinsky concerns the hell out of me now. That's why something needs to be done about this besides a confused old man heating it up on his way out of the door.
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Conscription and a draft are easier on Russia because they have more.....that is not saying it doesn't have a significant impact but they have a deeper bucket of everything to dip out of. The number of combat age people in Russia was around 20M Ukraine was 5M heading into the war and they already lost a huge chunk of that 10% as of early 2023. The average age of fighting personel for Ukraine is already over 40 years old. Ukraine cannot outlast Russia in any way even with support weaponry and money. It's going to take bodies.
I never said they had magic weapons and I don't think they are an unstoppable force. They have weapons they haven't used and have absolutely held back.
I mentioned subs for a reason and said any capacity for a reason. Yes Russia has had ships sunk.....surface ships. I said if the subs arrive someone else will have to get involved. If they block grain ships or any other kind of blockade using subs someone else will have to intervene because Ukraine can do nothing about it. A blockade is a non nuclear action that will impact all of Europe that they haven't done and could have day one.... That's the point someone else has to help them directly..... They are also still using a fraction of their air force. They are using restraint.
Biden can't walk. He needs to leave any sprinting to someone else. You say Ukraine can't win. Enough said.
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PF5
Ranger
wait, what?! why exactly would they 'hold back'?! what would benefit them to do this?
Never, never, never.....wait one more time!
mugatu
Ranger
Yes. More numbers to pull from. But much less willingness to accept a similar impact. That's why we keep saying you have to make Russia burn through troops. Make the population feel it and make them want to step back and reassess if it's worth it.
What in the ever loving h3ll are you talking about? You made the same claim yesterday and when I asked you to back it up, you listed well known weapons already in use and in such limited availability that they don't make an iimpact.the only things they've "held back" is a bunch of crap that they are afraid to use because it isn't operational. See their Armata tank, the Su-57 etc. They will use periodically in controlled scenarios because they either suck, are so expensive and irreplaceable they arent useful or both.
In case you didnt know they lost a sub too. There are very few in the Black Sea, more are not coming unless they are freighted in.
Turkey and others escort the grain shipments because it is in the best interests of the entire world. That isn't going to change if Russia somehow loads up subs from who knows where - by the way Turkey has said no military vessels are allowed through the straight for either side.
Yes they are using a fraction of their aircraft. But not because they are restraining themselves
Its because if they fly over or near Ukrainian soil they risk getting shot down. Air warfare has been largely limited due to SAM numbers. Patriots have pushed their C2 aircraft out to the far side of the black Sea. They only have so many ALCM so they rely on glide bombs. So only near-ish the front, which means they have to be careful in employment.
Side note. They absolutely SUCK at real time targeting so everything is preplanned which is why they only bomb buildings and structures. They can't flex to troops in contact and they can't operate near friendly forces other than as preplanned targets.
Why? Because he won't just roll over a be a good little puppet for Papa Putin..?
Just like I don't know what deal Putin will take you don't know the will of the people of two nations. If I'm talking out of may ass you are too.
They have weapons they haven't used.
They have the naval might to take out Turkey. If they want a blockade Turkey isn't going to stop them. And again that would be SOMEONE ELSE DIRECTLY INVOLVED WHICH WE NEED TO AVOID IF POSSIBLE.
I understand they aren't risking planes.....yet. That is restraint. Risk tolerance is still restraint and it moves with the situation. You keep talking about making it hurt.....when it hurts enough they have to they will use it....some will be shot down some wont. Russian has 13 times the aircraft. AGAIN IF THEY GO ALL OUT SOMEONE ELSE HAS TO GET INVOLVED.
Zelinsky scares me because he is a comedic actor who's party was formed a few years ago and named after his TV show. Maybe we should elect Julia Louis-Dreyfus and start the VEEP party? Oh wait we elected a reality show host..... They ain't Churchill and FDR. That's another thing about this whole deal.....we are pushing the world to the brink of war over a corrupt nation we have meddled in endlessly. We have had our President elect impeached over dealings there and our current president bragging on video about interfering in their justice system. It all has to stop sometime guys before it gets out of hand.
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Hungarian official criticizes Biden decision allowing Ukraine to use US weapons to strike Russia
Hungary’s foreign minister is criticizing U.S. President Joe Biden’s decision to authorize Ukraine to use missiles supplied by Washington to strike deeper inside Russia.
apnews.com
Here is the foreign minister of a NATO ally talking as crazy as I am. I'm sure he isn't informed on the situation as those of us who have watched the US media coverage and he doesn't have nearly as much on the line in a bordering nation as we do 6000 miles away.
Hungarian official criticizes Biden decision allowing Ukraine to use US weapons to strike Russia
Hungary’s foreign minister is criticizing U.S. President Joe Biden’s decision to authorize Ukraine to use missiles supplied by Washington to strike deeper inside Russia.
Here is the foreign minister of a NATO ally talking as crazy as I am. I'm sure he isn't informed on the situation as those of us who have watched the US media coverage and he doesn't have nearly as much on the line in a bordering nation as we do 6000 miles away.
From your own article.....
"On Monday, Hungarian Foreign Minister Péter Szijjártó, a fervent critic of Ukraine with close ties to Putin’s government,...."
Never, never, never.....oooo one more time.
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