Trump 2024 Run Thread

We’ve had experience with Trump as President. Economy was very strong pre-COVID. Highest GDP in 13 years during his 2nd year.
Yep, because he is a more absurd spender than any other modern president. Economic mismanagement to make himself look good in the short term.

Look at this graph of Fed surplus/deficit as a % of GDP. Every president ( the full graph goes back to the 1930s) has had a worsening deficit/gdp surrounding recessions. But, during the times that the economy was prospering, all of them knew appropriate stewardship was to at least decrease the deficit or even better create a surplus. And, I'm not bragging about this group as overall they get a D.

But, Trump is even worse. He took over from Obama who was doing like everyone else and decreasing the deficit as a percent of GDP as the economy turned 2011-2015. Then Trump takes over, has a roaring economy (as you mentioned) yet starts increasing the deficit as a percent of GDP! I'm not talking about the COVID plunge which is understandable (but they took it way too far). 2016 to late 2019 we had a great economy. No way we should be increasing deficit to GDP when he had the highest GDP as you said. But Trump did.

People that don't care about long-term macroeconomics think "Hey, economy is good. I like him." But, those that care about the country and its future know that he was speeding us faster than all the others (with a good economy) toward the economic disaster that will occur if we default on all this debt.Screenshot 2024-06-25 at 9.15.25 PM.png
 
Yep, because he is a more absurd spender than any other modern president. Economic mismanagement to make himself look good in the short term.

Look at this graph of Fed surplus/deficit as a % of GDP. Every president ( the full graph goes back to the 1930s) has had a worsening deficit/gdp surrounding recessions. But, during the times that the economy was prospering, all of them knew appropriate stewardship was to at least decrease the deficit or even better create a surplus. And, I'm not bragging about this group as overall they get a D.

But, Trump is even worse. He took over from Obama who was doing like everyone else and decreasing the deficit as a percent of GDP as the economy turned 2011-2015. Then Trump takes over, has a roaring economy (as you mentioned) yet starts increasing the deficit as a percent of GDP! I'm not talking about the COVID plunge which is understandable (but they took it way too far). 2016 to late 2019 we had a great economy. No way we should be increasing deficit to GDP when he had the highest GDP as you said. But Trump did.

People that don't care about long-term macroeconomics think "Hey, economy is good. I like him." But, those that care about the country and its future know that he was speeding us faster than all the others (with a good economy) toward the economic disaster that will occur if we default on all this debt.View attachment 5398
I agree he did not control spending when he enacted the tax relief.

Your last sentence is accurate, but it has been every recent administration. We have a spending problem.
 
I agree he did not control spending when he enacted the tax relief.

Your last sentence is accurate, but it has been every recent administration. We have a spending problem.
Appears you did not read the last sentence that you called accurate. It did NOT happen with all the others. He is the one who increased this ratio during a good economy. The only one. Spending is an issue. Spending persistently increasing faster than GDP during a great economy was only Trump.

If people want someone to "make the economy good" at all costs to our future, he is the guy. He took what the others were doing poorly on deficits and did it even worse. Even the covid plunge was much more than the GFC. I'd argue that the GFC was a more concerning economic problem.

I guess I am an "outlier" too in thinking this guy is great for the economy. He is a conman for the economy. People are easily conned.
 
Appears you did not read the last sentence that you called accurate. It did NOT happen with all the others. He is the one who increased this ratio during a good economy. The only one. Spending is an issue. Spending persistently increasing faster than GDP during a great economy was only Trump.

If people want someone to "make the economy good" at all costs to our future, he is the guy. He took what the others were doing poorly on deficits and did it even worse. Even the covid plunge was much more than the GFC. I'd argue that the GFC was a more concerning economic problem.

I guess I am an "outlier" too in thinking this guy is great for the economy. He is a conman for the economy. People are easily conned.
You may want to review your own graph if you think “it did not happen with all the others” is accurate. And that he is “the only one”.
 
You may want to review your own graph if you think “it did not happen with all the others” is accurate. And that he is “the only one”.


If I read the graph correctly, going back to 1990, you have Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Biden all with the same trend of reduction in deficit spending when the economy is good and increased deficit spending during a recession. Trump inherited a good economy but still had an increase in deficit spending. If I misread the graph correct me if I'm wrong but it's apparent he is the outlier here.
 
Yep, because he is a more absurd spender than any other modern president. Economic mismanagement to make himself look good in the short term.

Look at this graph of Fed surplus/deficit as a % of GDP. Every president ( the full graph goes back to the 1930s) has had a worsening deficit/gdp surrounding recessions. But, during the times that the economy was prospering, all of them knew appropriate stewardship was to at least decrease the deficit or even better create a surplus. And, I'm not bragging about this group as overall they get a D.

But, Trump is even worse. He took over from Obama who was doing like everyone else and decreasing the deficit as a percent of GDP as the economy turned 2011-2015. Then Trump takes over, has a roaring economy (as you mentioned) yet starts increasing the deficit as a percent of GDP! I'm not talking about the COVID plunge which is understandable (but they took it way too far). 2016 to late 2019 we had a great economy. No way we should be increasing deficit to GDP when he had the highest GDP as you said. But Trump did.

People that don't care about long-term macroeconomics think "Hey, economy is good. I like him." But, those that care about the country and its future know that he was speeding us faster than all the others (with a good economy) toward the economic disaster that will occur if we default on all this debt.View attachment 5398
 
We’ve had experience with Trump as President. Economy was very strong pre-COVID. Highest GDP in 13 years during his 2nd year. There is a reason Trump v Biden polls are neck and neck, but he leads Biden in every poll regarding who has a better approach for the economy (NBC News poll had Trump an astounding +20th on the economy in Feb). Your views are certainly an outlier.
There is no doubt Trump is friendlier to businesses and with less regulation. I am not concerned about the economy and he would definitely be better for the personal pocketbook.

Trump says a lot of stupid things. I don’t believe at all about tariffs replacing taxes, because that doesn’t work. He was incorrectly stating some things from Paul Ryan’s idea. And he is not deporting that many people.

I 100% am against the Fed being under the President. That is very wrong.

That last sentence alone should make you terrified of him. Regardless of any other stance Trump holds, if the executive branch gets ahold of the fed then I'm outta here because that's the day everything goes sideways.
 
Appears you did not read the last sentence that you called accurate. It did NOT happen with all the others. He is the one who increased this ratio during a good economy. The only one. Spending is an issue. Spending persistently increasing faster than GDP during a great economy was only Trump.

If people want someone to "make the economy good" at all costs to our future, he is the guy. He took what the others were doing poorly on deficits and did it even worse. Even the covid plunge was much more than the GFC. I'd argue that the GFC was a more concerning economic problem.

I guess I am an "outlier" too in thinking this guy is great for the economy. He is a conman for the economy. People are easily conned.
You may want to review your own graph if you think “it did not happen with all the others” is accurate. And that he is “the only one”.
Mischaracterize and misdirect.

It's what he does.

You know that as well as anyone, @steross.
 
You may want to review your own graph if you think “it did not happen with all the others” is accurate. And that he is “the only one”.
Instead of vaguely insinuating as usual, show me. It is a graph. Show me specifically the downward trend in the middle of a long economic boom that happened previous to Trump.

You can't. And won't. Cue more vagueness, a random insult, or ghosting of the thread.
 
Instead of vaguely insinuating as usual, show me. It is a graph. Show me specifically the downward trend in the middle of a long economic boom that happened previous to Trump.

You can't. And won't. Cue more vagueness, a random insult, or ghosting of the thread.
What happened in 2016? Was the downward start somehow Trump’s fault even though he wasn’t President?

Let me be clear: Trump did not decrease spending. Never once claimed otherwise. His agreement with Dems on the 2018 budget was a major mistake.

But ALL recent Presidential administrations have spent us into continual annual deficits driving a spiraling debt. Remember we had the immediate President previous to Trump that doubled the national debt during his terms. Pointing out two years of data points and attempting to make claims about the economy is beyond myopic. (Just like it would be myopic to make a claim about economy due to fact that Obama grew the debt at a faster rate in his last three years than Trump did in the three years after.).

Your blip is not an economic indicator, but about a difference with needed tax cuts. I think you, unlike the zzz posters understand this.
 
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Instead of vaguely insinuating as usual, show me. It is a graph. Show me specifically the downward trend in the middle of a long economic boom that happened previous to Trump.

You can't. And won't. Cue more vagueness, a random insult, or ghosting of the thread.
What happened in 2016? Was the downward start somehow Trump’s fault even though he wasn’t President?

Let me be clear: Trump did not decrease spending. Never once claimed otherwise. His agreement with Dems on the 2018 budget was a major mistake.

But ALL recent Presidential administrations have spent us into continual annual deficits driving a spiraling debt. Remember we had the immediate President previous to Trump that doubled the national debt during his terms. Pointing out two years of data points and attempting to make claims about the economy is beyond myopic. (Just like it would be myopic to make a claim about economy due to fact that Obama grew the debt at a faster rate in his last three years than Trump did in the three years after.).

Your blip is not an economic indicator, but about a difference with needed tax cuts. I think you, unlike the zzz posters understand this.
He couldn't...and didn't.

Just more mischaracterization and misdirection along with the random insult of the "zzz posters" that are completely on to his game.
 
16 Nobel Prize-winning economists warn that Trump's economic plans could reignite inflation cbsnews moneywatch

Sixteen of the world's most notable economists — all Nobel Prize winners — are warning that former President Donald Trump could stoke inflation if he wins the presidency in November and moves forward with his economic plans.

"Many Americans are concerned about inflation, which has come down remarkably fast. There is rightly a worry that Donald Trump will reignite this inflation, with his fiscally irresponsible budgets," according to a letter signed by the economists, who include Joseph Stiglitz, a Columbia University professor who won the Nobel prize for economics in 2001; and Yale professor Robert Shiller, who won the Nobel prize for economics in 2013.

The warning comes as the U.S. continues to battle sticky inflation, with the Federal Reserve maintaining the highest interest rates in more than two decades with the goal of cooling the economy and driving inflation down to a 2% annual rate. Even though inflation has cooled from a recent peak of 9.1% in June 2022, inflation-weary Americans are glum about the economy, with 6 in 10 rating it as either bad, fairly bad or very bad, according to the latest CBS News poll.

Trump's policies could prove to be inflationary, other economists also warned, such as his proposal to create a 10% across-the-board tariff on all imports to deporting immigrants. The tariff plan would add $1,700 in annual costs for the typical U.S. household, essentially acting as an inflationary tax, according to experts at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

Deporting immigrants could shrink the labor force, creating more competition for U.S. workers and pushing up wages, also adding to inflationary pressure, economists warn.

While the letter from Stiglitz and the other 15 Nobel Prize winners didn't detail the specifics of any part of Trump's plans, it did single out praise for some of President Joe Biden's economic policies, ranging from his Inflation Reduction Act to investment in U.S. manufacturing.

"In his first four years as President, Joe Biden signed into law major investments in the U.S. economy, including in infrastructure, domestic manufacturing and climate," the letter said. "Together, these investments are likely to increase productivity and economic growth while lowering long-term inflationary pressures and facilitating the clean energy transition."

They added, "While each of us has different views on the particulars of various economic policies, we all agree that Joe Biden's economic agenda is vastly superior to Donald Trump's."

"Top economists, Nobel Prize winners, and business leaders all know America can't afford Trump's dangerous economic agenda," Biden campaign spokesperson, James Singer, told CBS MoneyWatch.

"In Donald Trump's America, the rich pay less, and working Americans pay more," he added.

"The American people don't need worthless out-of-touch Nobel Prize winners to tell them which president put more money in their pockets," Trump campaign national press secretary Karoline Leavitt said in an emailed statement to CBS MoneyWatch.

If re-elected, Trump plans to implement a "pro-growth, pro-energy, pro-jobs agenda to bring down the cost of living and uplift all Americans," she added.

"We the undersigned": Read the letter​

You can read the text of the letter below:

We the undersigned are deeply concerned about the risks of a second Trump administration for the U.S. economy.
Among the most important determinants of economic success are the rule of law and economic and political certainty. For a country like the U.S., which is embedded in deep relationships with other countries, conforming to international norms and having normal and stable relationships with other countries is also an imperative. Donald Trump and the vagaries of his actions and policies threaten this stability and the U.S.'s standing in the world.
While each of us has different views on the particulars of various economic policies, we all agree that Joe Biden's economic agenda is vastly superior to Donald Trump's. In his first four years as President, Joe Biden signed into law major investments in the U.S. economy, including in infrastructure, domestic manufacturing, and climate. Together, these investments are likely to increase productivity and economic growth while lowering long-term inflationary pressures and facilitating the clean energy transition.
During Joe Biden's presidency we have also seen a remarkably strong and equitable labor market recovery — enabled by his pandemic stimulus. An additional four years of Joe Biden's presidency would allow him to continue supporting an inclusive U.S. economic recovery.
Many Americans are concerned about inflation, which has come down remarkably fast. There is rightly a worry that Donald Trump will reignite this inflation, with his fiscally irresponsible budgets. Nonpartisan researchers, including at Evercore, Allianz, Oxford Economics, and the Peterson Institute, predict that if Donald Trump successfully enacts his agenda, it will increase inflation.
The outcome of this election will have economic repercussions for years, and possibly decades, to come. We believe that a second Trump term would have a negative impact on the U.S.'s economic standing in the world and a destabilizing effect on the U.S.'s domestic economy.
Signed,
George A. Akerlof (2001)
Sir Angus Deaton (2015)
Claudia Goldin (2023)
Sir Oliver Hart (2016)
Eric S. Maskin (2007)
Daniel L. McFadden (2000)
Paul R. Milgrom (2020)
Roger B. Myerson (2007)
Edmund S. Phelps (2006)
Paul M. Romer (2018)
Alvin E. Roth (2012)
William F. Sharpe (1990)
Robert J. Shiller (2013)
Christopher A. Sims (2011)
Joseph E. Stiglitz (2001)
Robert B. Wilson (2020)
 
What happened in 2016? Was the downward start somehow Trump’s fault even though he wasn’t President?

Let me be clear: Trump did not decrease spending. Never once claimed otherwise. His agreement with Dems on the 2018 budget was a major mistake.

But ALL recent Presidential administrations have spent us into continual annual deficits driving a spiraling debt. Remember we had the immediate President previous to Trump that doubled the national debt during his terms. Pointing out two years of data points and attempting to make claims about the economy is beyond myopic. (Just like it would be myopic to make a claim about economy due to fact that Obama grew the debt at a faster rate in his last three years than Trump did in the three years after.).

Your blip is not an economic indicator, but about a difference with needed tax cuts. I think you, unlike the zzz posters understand this.
I understand you. I understand how wrong you are. What you are downplaying as a "blip" was his entire presidency. And, it is comical that you are calling his entire presidency a "blip" at the same time you are whining about part of a year from Obama.

And, you are downplaying it because you like tax cuts. Gee who doesn't. Well, I can tell you who doesn't, the future. Because we have spent a long time growing huge deficits. There is a Laffer curve. Those deficits in the past grew more when things were not great (bad economy, war) but less bad when things were good. Trump's claim as a great president is "No war, great economy." Those with intelligence pull back the blinders and see that he did that with profligate spending MORE than his predecessors with a good economy. Not just for part of a year. It was his whole presidency.

Anyone defending that is the opposite of a fiscal conservative. And the whataboutism of "they all did it" is demonstrably false. Sort of like someone recklessly driving at 120 saying "but all the other cars were speeding, too."
 
I understand you. I understand how wrong you are. What you are downplaying as a "blip" was his entire presidency. And, it is comical that you are calling his entire presidency a "blip" at the same time you are whining about part of a year from Obama.

And, you are downplaying it because you like tax cuts. Gee who doesn't. Well, I can tell you who doesn't, the future. Because we have spent a long time growing huge deficits. There is a Laffer curve. Those deficits in the past grew more when things were not great (bad economy, war) but less bad when things were good. Trump's claim as a great president is "No war, great economy." Those with intelligence pull back the blinders and see that he did that with profligate spending MORE than his predecessors with a good economy. Not just for part of a year. It was his whole presidency.

Anyone defending that is the opposite of a fiscal conservative. And the whataboutism of "they all did it" is demonstrably false. Sort of like someone recklessly driving at 120 saying "but all the other cars were speeding, too."
I love how he can never say something bad about Trump without immediately calling out Democrates.
 
I understand you. I understand how wrong you are. What you are downplaying as a "blip" was his entire presidency. And, it is comical that you are calling his entire presidency a "blip" at the same time you are whining about part of a year from Obama.

And, you are downplaying it because you like tax cuts. Gee who doesn't. Well, I can tell you who doesn't, the future. Because we have spent a long time growing huge deficits. There is a Laffer curve. Those deficits in the past grew more when things were not great (bad economy, war) but less bad when things were good. Trump's claim as a great president is "No war, great economy." Those with intelligence pull back the blinders and see that he did that with profligate spending MORE than his predecessors with a good economy. Not just for part of a year. It was his whole presidency.

Anyone defending that is the opposite of a fiscal conservative. And the whataboutism of "they all did it" is demonstrably false. Sort of like someone recklessly driving at 120 saying "but all the other cars were speeding, too."
I am surprised at your response. I get this is a very liberal/progressive board, but I thought you understood better. You not comprehending we have a spending problem is unfortunately indicative of a large portion of our citizens. The same group that continually looks to others to pay their bill.

It is telling that you think your graph informs you that Trump is worse than all others, but you ignore the factually data point that the previous President grew debt at a larger rate (albeit not a significant difference).
 
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I am surprised at your response. I get this is a very liberal/progressive board, but I thought you understood better. You not comprehending we have a spending problem is unfortunately indicative of a large portion of our citizens. The same group that continually looks to others to pay their bill.

It is telling that you think your graph informs you that Trump is worse than all others, but you ignore the factually data point that the previous President grew debt at a larger rate (albeit not a significant difference).

You're ignoring the gray bars on the graph. Those are recessions. The point is that during all the other presidents' terms, the deficit was increased around a recession. Look at the graph, every time the line shows a downward trend it slashes through a gray bar. Because everyone knows that the government should spend more in economically bad times to stimulate the economy, and spend less in economically good times. There is no gray bar in sight as Trump increased the deficit. Because he allowed the deficit to increase during good economic times.
 
I am surprised and disappointed at your response. I get this is a very liberal/progressive board, but I thought you understood better. You not comprehending we have a spending problem is unfortunately indicative of a large portion of our citizens. The same group that continually looks to others to pay their bill.

It is telling that you think your graph informs you that Trump is worse than all others, but you ignore the factually data point that the previous President grew debt at a larger rate (albeit not a significant difference).
Yes the US gov has a spending problem, he didn't say otherwise. That said, Trump, was worse that those you complain about because for most of his term the economy wasn't in need of driving up the deficit as much. When Trump is called out you pretend "they are all the same". Chart shows that's not the case when looked at with context of economic conditions.

Obama conducted the longest continuous period of job growth is US history coming out of the great recession and you can see the deficit shrink continuously from 2009 on until 2016 then it goes the other way (higher % of GDP), then 2021 it starts back on the trend back.

What great economic downturn lead to Trump's deficit growth pre-Covid?

I wouldn't consider this a very liberal board. It's just not GOP centered and that you see as very liberal.
 
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