OT: General CFB Thread

Leonard vs. Howard. I don't think I can remember a title game that featured a worse set of QBs.
Is this a Klieman burner account? That guy is an idiot how he handled the way he handled the transfer Nebraska QB/Hiward and Howard/Johnson QB situation. You seem to have similar thoughts? Howard may not be elite but is a darn good college QB, may have been the difference of how k state finished this year and being in the playoff.
 
I agree, and aside from a couple of the games, it’s been nice to see some semblance of parity between the teams.
There’s something about Leonard I really like. He’s been playing very well over the last month. He runs the ball very hard. Gets those tough/crucial 3rd and shorts to keep drives going. He’s an old school football player but looks like he’s 12 years old lol.
 
Is this a Klieman burner account? That guy is an idiot how he handled the way he handled the transfer Nebraska QB/Hiward and Howard/Johnson QB situation. You seem to have similar thoughts? Howard may not be elite but is a darn good college QB, may have been the difference of how k state finished this year and being in the playoff.
If you're asking me if Howard or Johnson is the better QB currently, the answer is obviously Howard.

That said, it should be equally obvious to everyone that Johnson has the highest ceiling. He just needs to be developed, as most young QBs do. Whether or not Kleiman has the coaching staff to do it is the real question. If I'm Kleiman, however, and I am given the choice to ride with Howard again and lose my talented young freshman, or start the freshman knowing Howard leaves, I'm starting the freshman.
 
If you're asking me if Howard or Johnson is the better QB currently, the answer is obviously Howard.

That said, it should be equally obvious to everyone that Johnson has the highest ceiling. He just needs to be developed, as most young QBs do. Whether or not Kleiman has the coaching staff to do it is the real question. If I'm Kleiman, however, and I am given the choice to ride with Howard again and lose my talented young freshman, or start the freshman knowing Howard leaves, I'm starting the freshman.
This will be interesting going forward. How many 18-20 yr olds can come in and compete against legit defenses w outstanding DCs? Can they read pre snap? Can they adjust for the blitz packages? Can they go through progressions.?

Ohio State and ND both have game managers surrounded by great lines and 5 star WR/RBs. They are then complemented by stout Ds w great coaches. Will either play in the NFL?

Don’t ask them to win just ask them to not get you beat.

I think we tried that w Bowman this yr. We didn’t have the line, OC and Defense. Bowman also didn’t perform as expected.
 
There’s something about Leonard I really like. He’s been playing very well over the last month. He runs the ball very hard. Gets those tough/crucial 3rd and shorts to keep drives going. He’s an old school football player but looks like he’s 12 years old lol.
I agree. He’s also the dude that will look totally average for 2quarters, then pull off a perfect throw to get the offense going. The sideline route he hit against Penn State totally changed the momentum of that game, imo.
 
If you're asking me if Howard or Johnson is the better QB currently, the answer is obviously Howard.

That said, it should be equally obvious to everyone that Johnson has the highest ceiling. He just needs to be developed, as most young QBs do. Whether or not Kleiman has the coaching staff to do it is the real question. If I'm Kleiman, however, and I am given the choice to ride with Howard again and lose my talented young freshman, or start the freshman knowing Howard leaves, I'm starting the freshman.
No, saying what he did with Martinez over Howard and then pushing Howard away In favor of Johnson was stupid. Should have given Johnson his 4 games last year and then the package they used last year for Johnson this year. I think they would have won big 12 and had a shot at winning a couple playoff games. Seemed like Howard’s path was similar to Weeden but got pushed out once Johnson arrived. Yes, needs developed and a few extra pounds of muscle. Wasted a year to develop by playing more than 4 games as a freshman. Was interesting after they lost a couple games many fans wanted to run Johnson out of town in his puke colored corvette! The thing about Johnson is he is a gamer and athletic enough I think he will be very good next year.
 
No, saying what he did with Martinez over Howard and then pushing Howard away In favor of Johnson was stupid. Should have given Johnson his 4 games last year and then the package they used last year for Johnson this year. I think they would have won big 12 and had a shot at winning a couple playoff games. Seemed like Howard’s path was similar to Weeden but got pushed out once Johnson arrived. Yes, needs developed and a few extra pounds of muscle. Wasted a year to develop by playing more than 4 games as a freshman. Was interesting after they lost a couple games many fans wanted to run Johnson out of town in his puke colored corvette! The thing about Johnson is he is a gamer and athletic enough I think he will be very good next year.
You're operating under the assumption that playing QB at Ohio State is the same as playing QB at Kansas State. They're not the same. Howard has vastly greater resources to help him play the position well than he had at KSU.

Thinking that had they kept Howard and played him over Johnson, they'd be playing in, and with shots at, winning "a couple of playoff games" is a pipe dream. Howard and Johnson were effectively the same QB year-over-year:

Howard (2023): 219/357 (61.3%) 2,643 yards (7.4 ypa) 24 TD 10 INT 16 sacks - 81 carries 351 yards (4.3 ypc) 9 TD
Johnson (2024): 217/372 (58.3%) 2,712 yards (7.3 ypa) 25 TD 10 INT 13 sacks - 113 carries 605 yards (5.4 ypc) 7 TD

Statistically, that was Howard's best season until this past year. This season was also his last season (assuming no weird rule/ruling grants him another year). Essentially, KSU got the exact same level of production, but with a QB that had 3, now 2 seasons left. Yes, how they used Johnson last year was stupid, but there's a reason that they wanted him on the field- he's a better QB in their system than Howard.

The last part of that last sentence is also key. Johnson was/is the most important piece to Klieman's offense. He wants to utilize the QB run in a run-heavy offense, but have a QB that can take the top off a defense as well. Think Carson Wentz (201 carries over 24 games) and Easton Stick (427 carries in 3.5 years). Howard can run, but he's not that type of mobile QB.

KSU also expected this to be a transition year, losing their Offensive Coordinator, their top two receiving threats (TE Sinnott and WR Phillip Brooks), and 3 of their top OLinemen. There's a reason KSU fans were excited for Johnson to take the reigns. We're also operating under the assumption that KSU chose Johnson over Howard. It's just as likely that Howard chose to transfer to a team that had a chance to compete for a championship and possibly increase his draft stock with his last year of eligibility. By the way, with the numbers he was able to put up with actually talented WRs on his team and the fact that he's now playing in the National Championship game, if those were the reasons he left KSU, it was obviously the right call.
 
You're operating under the assumption that playing QB at Ohio State is the same as playing QB at Kansas State. They're not the same. Howard has vastly greater resources to help him play the position well than he had at KSU.

Thinking that had they kept Howard and played him over Johnson, they'd be playing in, and with shots at, winning "a couple of playoff games" is a pipe dream. Howard and Johnson were effectively the same QB year-over-year:

Howard (2023): 219/357 (61.3%) 2,643 yards (7.4 ypa) 24 TD 10 INT 16 sacks - 81 carries 351 yards (4.3 ypc) 9 TD
Johnson (2024): 217/372 (58.3%) 2,712 yards (7.3 ypa) 25 TD 10 INT 13 sacks - 113 carries 605 yards (5.4 ypc) 7 TD

Statistically, that was Howard's best season until this past year. This season was also his last season (assuming no weird rule/ruling grants him another year). Essentially, KSU got the exact same level of production, but with a QB that had 3, now 2 seasons left. Yes, how they used Johnson last year was stupid, but there's a reason that they wanted him on the field- he's a better QB in their system than Howard.

The last part of that last sentence is also key. Johnson was/is the most important piece to Klieman's offense. He wants to utilize the QB run in a run-heavy offense, but have a QB that can take the top off a defense as well. Think Carson Wentz (201 carries over 24 games) and Easton Stick (427 carries in 3.5 years). Howard can run, but he's not that type of mobile QB.

KSU also expected this to be a transition year, losing their Offensive Coordinator, their top two receiving threats (TE Sinnott and WR Phillip Brooks), and 3 of their top OLinemen. There's a reason KSU fans were excited for Johnson to take the reins. We're also operating under the assumption that KSU chose Johnson over Howard. It's just as likely that Howard chose to transfer to a team that had a chance to compete for a championship and possibly increase his draft stock with his last year of eligibility. By the way, with the numbers he was able to put up with actually talented WRs on his team and the fact that he's now playing in the National Championship game, if those were the reasons he left KSU, it was obviously the right call.
KSU also lost a few OL. One NFL guy in that group. He knew that.
 
You're operating under the assumption that playing QB at Ohio State is the same as playing QB at Kansas State. They're not the same. Howard has vastly greater resources to help him play the position well than he had at KSU.

Thinking that had they kept Howard and played him over Johnson, they'd be playing in, and with shots at, winning "a couple of playoff games" is a pipe dream. Howard and Johnson were effectively the same QB year-over-year:

Howard (2023): 219/357 (61.3%) 2,643 yards (7.4 ypa) 24 TD 10 INT 16 sacks - 81 carries 351 yards (4.3 ypc) 9 TD
Johnson (2024): 217/372 (58.3%) 2,712 yards (7.3 ypa) 25 TD 10 INT 13 sacks - 113 carries 605 yards (5.4 ypc) 7 TD

Statistically, that was Howard's best season until this past year. This season was also his last season (assuming no weird rule/ruling grants him another year). Essentially, KSU got the exact same level of production, but with a QB that had 3, now 2 seasons left. Yes, how they used Johnson last year was stupid, but there's a reason that they wanted him on the field- he's a better QB in their system than Howard.

The last part of that last sentence is also key. Johnson was/is the most important piece to Klieman's offense. He wants to utilize the QB run in a run-heavy offense, but have a QB that can take the top off a defense as well. Think Carson Wentz (201 carries over 24 games) and Easton Stick (427 carries in 3.5 years). Howard can run, but he's not that type of mobile QB.

KSU also expected this to be a transition year, losing their Offensive Coordinator, their top two receiving threats (TE Sinnott and WR Phillip Brooks), and 3 of their top OLinemen. There's a reason KSU fans were excited for Johnson to take the reins. We're also operating under the assumption that KSU chose Johnson over Howard. It's just as likely that Howard chose to transfer to a team that had a chance to compete for a championship and possibly increase his draft stock with his last year of eligibility. By the way, with the numbers he was able to put up with actually talented WRs on his team and the fact that he's now playing in the National Championship game, if those were the reasons he left KSU, it was obviously the right call.
Totally agree with this. I think this year has totally changed Howard’s NFL proo, & I’m a guy that was totally skeptical of his move to Columbus.

His WR corps there is clearly closer to an NFL group, so it’s a lot easier to see him succeeding in the NFL now imo. Johnson still has a lot of feast or famine moments and I think it’s reasonable to question just how much more accurate he can become as a thrower.
 
6 NFL playoff games decided by an average of over 14 points. One game decided by less than a TD.

What you don’t hear today? A bunch of whining that the Vikings or Packers didn’t belong in the field.

It’s time for the college talking heads to get past the hand wringing and thought process that the playoff format has to somehow guarantee nothing but close games.
 
6 NFL playoff games decided by an average of over 14 points. One game decided by less than a TD.

What you don’t hear today? A bunch of whining that the Vikings or Packers didn’t belong in the field.

It’s time for the college talking heads to get past the hand wringing and thought process that the playoff format has to somehow guarantee nothing but close games.
Apples and oranges. The NFL has a very specific, methodical way of finding playoff participants. Outside of the AQ, it’s the exact opposite for college football. So long as the majority of the field is picked arbitrarily by a committee, using ever shifting goal posts, there’s going g to be hand wringing and discussion about how to make the playoffs “better”.
 
Apples and oranges. The NFL has a very specific, methodical way of finding playoff participants. Outside of the AQ, it’s the exact opposite for college football. So long as the majority of the field is picked arbitrarily by a committee, using ever shifting goal posts, there’s going g to be hand wringing and discussion about how to make the playoffs “better”.
Thus four or five conferences with a certain number making it in the playoff. No more CCGs, that’s the first playoff round and get the champion crowned before the NFL playoffs
 
Apples and oranges. The NFL has a very specific, methodical way of finding playoff participants. Outside of the AQ, it’s the exact opposite for college football. So long as the majority of the field is picked arbitrarily by a committee, using ever shifting goal posts, there’s going g to be hand wringing and discussion about how to make the playoffs “better”.
I know how the NFL playoffs work, thanks.

The lack of competitive games, which there is annually in the wildcard round, doesn’t lead to the NFL talking heads crying that the system needs to change though.

That was kinda the point.
 
I know how the NFL playoffs work, thanks.

The lack of competitive games, which there is annually in the wildcard round, doesn’t lead to the NFL talking heads crying that the system needs to change though.

That was kinda the point.
Okay, you may know how the system works, it’s still not a good form of evidence to support your argument.

However, you also missed my point. The NFL doesn’t have the hand wringing for the reasons outlined. College football always will so long as it continues to work the way it does. And it should, because those stupid arguments only barely match the stupidity with which the CFP field is selected.
 
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