Harris 2024 election thread

[HacklemanPoke]

Harris's tax plan will give more money back to the lower and middle and will add far less to the the debt than Trump's plan.

Another thing I like about Biden and now Harris is they are doing things outside of tax code to put $ in middle class, srs and workers pockets.

Medicare drug negotiations. Starting in 2026 10 drugs will be open for negotiation. They will open up more drugs also. Trump and the Rs won’t do a thing.

Paid family leave puts real $ in people’s pockets. It’s a government mandate I get that but I’m also dang glad the govt has mandates for people w disabilities. Trump has no problem w mandates. He came up with one yesterday that will never fly.

School lunches. Stitt can brag all he wants about giving families $600/yr in a grocery tax. That’s much appreciated. But free school meals for 2 kids has to put at the very least $2000 to $5000 per yr. Its a proven fact that kids perform better in school if not food deprived and nourished properly. Want to improve test scores? Feed the kids.

The Affordable Care Act works. Yes it still has problems but it works in spite of Rs doing nothing to fix it. Having insurance puts money in peoples pockets.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

Respectfully, you are missing my point. The view that Harris has not listed policies are not from an extreme minority. She is behind Trump in the polls with the top two issues that independent and moderate republican feel are most important. IMO, she has to start articulating a message to these swing voters.

Maybe this article the WSJ just posted will help.

The Vice President got away for the most part with repeating her campaign’s platitudes about “the middle class” and “a new way forward” and was never seriously challenged on anything. That’s a shame because the voters still haven’t received a straight answer about whether, and how, she has changed her views from the far-left positions she espoused in 2019 as a presidential candidate.

It’s too much to expect much from a single interview, except that this is the first the Vice President has done as a presidential candidate and she is the least-known candidate in modern history. Ms. Harris remains vulnerable on her past political views, her recent flip-flops, the Biden-Harris record in office, and what appears to be her implicit endorsement of the Biden economic and national-security policies.

These are openings for Donald Trump, assuming he can prosecute the case. But that’s far from a sure thing. The Harris campaign’s bet, and it’s not a crazy one, is that the Vice President can soar to victory on a cloud of general promises, platitudes and “joy.”

The campaign is betting the press won’t care. And they’re betting that Mr. Trump won’t do the homework and doesn’t have the discipline and focus to expose any of this in debate or consistently on the stump. So far it’s been a winning wager.

MSN

She’s not performing as well bc people can’t think for themselves on these issues.

 

[mugatu]

That’s a good list. She needs to start articulating that. She is working on her policy changes with illegal immigration, fracking, eliminating private health insurance, gun buy-back, court packing, etc. She previously advocated some fairly extreme positions on each of those issues. It was understandable because she proposed those ideas during a Dem primary, but she needs to address these. At some point she needs to get those messages out.

This great John Stossel video from two-days ago highlights why it could be difficult for non progressives and non-liberals to understand what Harris stands for.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828830149095149898

No clue who this guy is other than a Google search that shows he's way libertarian. So maybe he's not inclined to look for answers involving someone who obviously doesn't support positions he does.

"Stossel opposes the minimum wage, corporate welfare and welfare more broadly, bailouts, seat belt laws, occupational licensing and the war in Iraq. He also opposes legal prohibitions against pornography, marijuana, recreational drugs, gambling, ticket scalping, prostitution, polygamy, and assisted suicide, and believes most abortions should be legal. He has said he supports the rule of law, gun rights, pollution control, and lower and simpler taxes. He has endorsed or explored various ideas in his specials and on his TV series for changing the tax system, including switching to a flat tax, and replacing the income tax with the FairTax."

I have no issue finding her positions on current issues under discussion when I look for them. If people don't know it's because they aren't looking. Media and right side personalities keep pushing that she hasn't put out policies.

I get that she hasn't fully clarified positions on discussion points from 4+ years ago, but also hasn't come out vocally supporting those positions either so to me you default to her maintaining positions that have been in place since she has been VP.

 

[mugatu]

No…he’s really not.

That’s exactly who he is.

....but maybe that kind of pull helps him move forward and have actual honest discussion. It's another version of "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed".

And it kind of worked. He's closer to honest engagement the last couple posts, hopefully it lasts.

 

[JTOSU]

No clue who this guy is other than a Google search that shows he's way libertarian. So maybe he's not inclined to look for answers involving someone who obviously doesn't support positions he does.

"Stossel opposes the minimum wage, corporate welfare and welfare more broadly, bailouts, seat belt laws, occupational licensing and the war in Iraq. He also opposes legal prohibitions against pornography, marijuana, recreational drugs, gambling, ticket scalping, prostitution, polygamy, and assisted suicide, and believes most abortions should be legal. He has said he supports the rule of law, gun rights, pollution control, and lower and simpler taxes. He has endorsed or explored various ideas in his specials and on his TV series for changing the tax system, including switching to a flat tax, and replacing the income tax with the FairTax."

I have no issue finding her positions on current issues under discussion when I look for them. If people don't know it's because they aren't looking. Media and right side personalities keep pushing that she hasn't put out policies.

I get that she hasn't fully clarified positions on discussion points from 4+ years ago, but also hasn't come out vocally supporting those positions either so to me you default to her maintaining positions that have been in place since she has been VP.

Stossel is a long-time TV journalist. Yes he is a big-time libertarian. He use to be on 20/20 every week. Everything you list that he supports is probably correct. I certainly have an admitted bias for him because I support all the positions in that list as well.

It is not just right-side personalities that are stating she has been in hiding too long. The NY Times last week and even CNN today about their own interview.

 

[mugatu]

Stossel is a long-time TV journalist. Yes he is a big-time libertarian. He use to be on 20/20 every week. Everything you list that he supports is probably correct. I certainly have an admitted bias for him because I support all the positions in that list as well.

It is not just right-side personalities that are stating she has been in hiding too long. The NY Times last week and even CNN today about their own interview.

You are pro flat tax and absolutely no minimum wage...? How much and why do you hate low income families? Anti occupational licensing...? Why? It protects consumers from people that have no clue what they are doing. Imagine going to a Dr but they don't need a medical license, or an electrician that doesn't need a license. Seems like a great idea.

Sorry, wasn't trying to deflect, back to subject. CNN has no room to talk, they could have asked for specifics on any point yesterday. She has been the candidate for just over a month, give her a chance to work details before she starts putting out information shes going to change and let's see what happens on Sep 10 during their debate.

It is very obvious she is the opposite of Trump. She's not just putting out potential policy based on whatever comes to mind or might be helpful in that exact moment. People need to recalibrate to someone that puts thought into policy.

 

[JTOSU]

CNN has no room to talk, they could have asked for specifics on any point yesterday. She has been the candidate for just over a month, give her a chance to work details

People need to recalibrate to someone that puts thought into policy.

So your answer is the public needs to wait to hear her policies and give her a chance to work details? Agree with you that Sep 10th is an opportunity for her to provide more thoughts on her policies and why people should vote for her.

To my initial post: Isn’t that acknowledging that she hasn’t yet provided many reasons for independents and moderate republicans to vote FOR her?

 

[HacklemanPoke]

You are pro flat tax and absolutely no minimum wage...? How much and why do you hate low income families? Anti occupational licensing...? Why? It protects consumers from people that have no clue what they are doing. Imagine going to a Dr but they don't need a medical license, or an electrician that doesn't need a license. Seems like a great idea.

Sorry, wasn't trying to deflect, back to subject. CNN has no room to talk, they could have asked for specifics on any point yesterday. She has been the candidate for just over a month, give her a chance to work details before she starts putting out information shes going to change and let's see what happens on Sep 10 during their debate.

It is very obvious she is the opposite of Trump. She's not just putting out potential policy based on whatever comes to mind or might be helpful in that exact moment. People need to recalibrate to someone that puts thought into policy.

This has been an interesting exercise. 1st it’s apparent JT did not really want answers to why vote for Harris. He had an agenda that was to take what people posted and then cherry pick or ignore.

He has repeatedly said but that’s a reason to vote against Trump but not for Harris. It struck me how rich it is that the guy he closet supports that is his main campaign theme.

 

[mugatu]

So your answer is the public needs to wait to hear her policies and give her a chance to work details? Agree with you that Sep 10th is an opportunity for her to provide more thoughts on her policies and why people should vote for her.

To my initial post: Isn’t that acknowledging that she hasn’t yet provided many reasons for independents and moderate republicans to vote FOR her?

No it is not. I listed many reasons for a R or I to vote FOR her. She has put out lots of policy.

Has she answered every possible question that could be asked about a short presidential run 4+ years? No. But that is far from abnormal. What you should have asked is completely different that what you really asked. Why she hasn't provided reasons for you to vote for her based on a couple very specific past debate points.

You moved the goalposts to a different field my friend.

But back to you.
What is Trump's policy for AFA replacement from 2016 campaign? Why has he changed positions on abortion so many time? I also want his position on every proposal stated in all 900 pages of Project 2025. Discrete point by point detailed position. Why hasn't Mexico paid for the wall? What is his position on bump stocks, he helped push through a ban that has been repeated by SCOTUS, should we expect another attempt at this? Why haven't I heard his positions on these points? When is he going to finally put forward his positions on these things. He's been campaigning for 3 years he's had plenty of time to get that out. Why's he hiding his policies?

See how this goes?

 

[steross]

That’s a good list. She needs to start articulating that. She is working on her policy changes with illegal immigration, fracking, eliminating private health insurance, gun buy-back, court packing, etc. She previously advocated some fairly extreme positions on each of those issues. It was understandable because she proposed those ideas during a Dem primary, but she needs to address these. At some point she needs to get those messages out.

This great John Stossel video from two-days ago highlights why it could be difficult for non progressives and non-liberals to understand what Harris stands for.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1828830149095149898

I'm curious, does anyone out there like their health insurance?
I see that in political debates all the time. I really can't see how anyone at this point could be oblivious enough to reality to like their health insurance.

 

[JTOSU]

This has been an interesting exercise. 1st it’s apparent JT did not really want answers to why vote for Harris. He had an agenda that was to take what people posted and then cherry pick or ignore.

He has repeatedly said but that’s a reason to vote against Trump but not for Harris. It struck me how rich it is that the guy he closet supports that is his main campaign theme.

I asked a very simple question. Granted I was asking the question that forced people to think outside their comfort zone. I appreciate your reply. You at least attempted and did have some points.

BTW, the video that Brandon Weeden just posted on twitter is pretty accurate. And adjacent to my question.

As for being a closeted Trump guy? No I have never been. He’s a horrible person. I’ve stated I was going to vote for Biden several times. However, I will definitely NOT be voting for Harris. Her past stated policies scare me and she has done nothing to change that. And neither will both my young adult daughters being voting for her for different reasons.

 

[steross]

So your answer is the public needs to wait to hear her policies and give her a chance to work details? Agree with you that Sep 10th is an opportunity for her to provide more thoughts on her policies and why people should vote for her.

To my initial post: Isn’t that acknowledging that she hasn’t yet provided many reasons for independents and moderate republicans to vote FOR her?

Can you show me any president in our lifetime who had campaign policy proposals that were enacted as campaigned?

 

[JTOSU]

No it is not. I listed many reasons for a R or I to vote FOR her. She has put out lots of policy.

But back to you.
What is Trump's policy for AFA replacement from 2016 campaign? Why has he changed positions on abortion so many time? I also want his position on every proposal stated in all 900 pages of Project 2025. Discrete point by point detailed position. Why hasn't Mexico paid for the wall? What is his position on bump stocks, he helped push through a ban that has been repeated by SCOTUS, should we expect another attempt at this? Why haven't I heard his positions on these points? When is he going to finally put forward his positions on these things. He's been campaigning for 3 years he's had plenty of time to get that out. Why's he hiding his policies?

See how this goes?

1) You are kidding yourself that she has put out lots of policy. Unless you are including her policies from her 2020 campaign

2) Trump is a horrible person. I have no defense of him. He makes wild stupid claims on a lot of things. Pure bluster. No I don’t think Trump has done much for moderate Dems to vote for him. He did provide middle class tax cuts, but he also failed to stop spending.

 

[JTOSU]

Can you show me any president in our lifetime who had campaign policy proposals that were enacted as campaigned?

Fair point.

 

[steross]

I asked a very simple question. Granted I was asking the question that forced people to think outside their comfort zone. I appreciate your reply. You at least attempted and did have some points.

BTW, the video that Brandon Weeden just posted on twitter is pretty accurate. And adjacent to my question.

As for being a closeted Trump guy? No I have never been. He’s a horrible person. I’ve stated I was going to vote for Biden several times. However, I will definitely NOT be voting for Harris. Her past stated policies scare me and she has done nothing to change that. And neither will both my young adult daughters being voting for her for different reasons.

Harris scares you more than Trump?

What past stated policies are more risky to you than a person who is so narcissistic that he cannot believe he lost an election therefore has created a massive false story of election fraud that has destroyed the trust in one of our most fundamental institutions of government. And, it appears there is a good chance he and his followers will not accept this result either which could have catastrophic consequences for the country.

What gives you more fear than that?

 

[steross]

Fair point.

Thanks.

And, that is why I would vote for her.

She is clearly left of me. I think and hope the gravity of the position will move her more to the center as it did Obama. And, the more extreme of policy ideas simply never make it.
I read an article (that I can't find now) about her advisors saying that she is somewhat difficult as she asks detailed and difficult questions and contemplates multiple sides before making a decision. Hey, may have been campaign fodder but I can't ask more than that if true.

I would vote for her as I think at worst she hurts my personal pocketbook a little with some tax policy stuff. Contrary to Stossel (who I do like) I think trying to guess if she or Trump would be worse for the debt is a WAG given his proven history. Trump scares me because he is attacking our government for personal desires. He would be happy to be an unelected president. That is simply unacceptable.

 

[JTOSU]

Harris scares you more than Trump?

Yes.
1) all of her tax policy statements (income tax rate increase, increasing estate taxes, unrealized gains tax) 2) her support for repealing filibuster; 3) court packing support; 4) green new deal support; 5) her trial balloon about price controls. 6) authoritarian actions like student debt transfer

Although my daughters are voting Trump, I am voting for Oliver.

 

[JTOSU]

Thanks.

And, that is why I would vote for her.

She is clearly left of me. I think and hope the gravity of the position will move her more to the center as it did Obama. And, the more extreme of policy ideas simply never make it.
I read an article (that I can't find now) about her advisors saying that she is somewhat difficult as she asks detailed and difficult questions and contemplates multiple sides before making a decision. Hey, may have been campaign fodder but I can't ask more than that if true.

I would vote for her as I think at worst she hurts my personal pocketbook a little with some tax policy stuff. Contrary to Stossel (who I do like) I think trying to guess if she or Trump would be worse for the debt is a WAG given his proven history. Trump scares me because he is attacking our government for personal desires. He would be happy to be an unelected president. That is simply unacceptable.

I disagree with your conclusions (ie voting for Harris), but they are well thought out and very understandable.

While I am concerned more with her about national debt, Trump certainly proved he doesn’t care about that.

 

[mugatu]

I asked a very simple question. Granted I was asking the question that forced people to think outside their comfort zone. I appreciate your reply. You at least attempted and did have some points.

BTW, the video that Brandon Weeden just posted on twitter is pretty accurate. And adjacent to my question.

As for being a closeted Trump guy? No I have never been. He’s a horrible person. I’ve stated I was going to vote for Biden several times. However, I will definitely NOT be voting for Harris. Her past stated policies scare me and she has done nothing to change that. And neither will both my young adult daughters being voting for her for different reasons.

You asked a simple question but not the one you wanted answered.

Outside my comfort zone...? no. Just answered what you asked not what you wanted answered. And also not the 4 areas you brought up later in discussion.

 

[steross]

Yes.
1) all of her tax policy statements (income tax rate increase, increasing estate taxes, unrealized gains tax) 2) her support for repealing filibuster; 3) court packing support; 4) green new deal support; 5) her trial balloon about price controls. 6) authoritarian actions like student debt transfer

Although my daughters are voting Trump, I am voting for Oliver.

Just curious, why do you cut the parts about Trump's fight against our government's institutions?
That is the key for me. Why do you never comment on that part?