Gundy Not in Trouble….restructuring

[TXPoke]

How old are you?

Not knocking your age, but I wonder if you were around in the before times.

In my 4 years, I had 3 of them with Simmons and 1 with Les. No bowl games and we had to get a tetanus shot when entering the stadium. Bedlam in 2000 was more red than orange.

Some people now say the bowl streak was overrated. It's easy to say when you barely remember when just making one was a really big deal. The change in our culture happened for many reasons but a really really big one was the current HC. I think alot of people forget that.

I fully admit I am relatively new to the OSU culture. I grew up a long time UT fan with plans on attending the school after I got accepted. But OSU gave me an offer I couldn't refuse and ended up in Stillwater circa 2010. My knowledge and awareness of OSU football prior to Dez Bryant is almost non-existent before I became a student. So my loyalty to Gundy as a "savior of the program" is just not there. My time on campus made me fall in love with the program, and I want nothing but the best for it. We had a generational opportunity this year, and it was completely fumbled. People are angry, and justifiably so.

I understand fear of the past, but all programs are susceptible to ebbs and flows in stability and success. Blue bloods are not immune to that. I watched many terrible Texas teams languish in mediocrity and underachieve in my childhood. Watching Gundy handle QB's is like watching Mack Brown mishandle Major Applewhite and Chris Sims on repeat.

The way teams fall into mediocrity is by not being forward looking, staying "comfortable", and watching the world pass by with a new way of doing it. Gundy is anchored in his ways, and I think a significant portion of the fanbase does not believe he is capable of breaking his mold. Does he deserve a shot to try, yes. But his leash needs to be short, and I think the BoR ensured that it is. Vast improvement is required, but lets see what happens and go.

Let's Ride!

 

[Cowboyshoopspride]

The spin on this is hard to fathom. People actually thinking Gundy is responsible for all these changes and re-structuring his contract. It's beyond hilarious.

Remember when I said there had been some “wild statements” out there? And you told me it was ‘wild criterion’ for a message board if you had to know the people involved personally ? Maybe I should have used spin zone instead of wild.

That’s not directed at you or Clint by any means and it certainly isn’t just one side of this saga. It been a ride with the amount of “I heard, my sources,” tons of rumors/opinions portrayed as fact…..

It is what is now, sweeping changes were made. Some are happy, some aren’t, I don’t know where I’m at on the new staff but I absolutely and unequivocally support management forcing changes. People can choose to believe how it went down however they want but I do think it will all be a bet positive long term. I just want to enjoy Saturdays in the fall next year.

 

[Cowboyshoopspride]

No. He was refusing meetings with Weiberg and then later Weiberg & Shrum together. He hadn’t made any contract concessions or communicated any plans for staff changes.

I don’t think it was that.

Correct on both accounts. Facts.

Someone out there is about to argue with us now who has no idea what they’re talking about.

 

[zone2poke]

No. He was refusing meetings with Weiberg and then later Weiberg & Shrum together. He hadn’t made any contract concessions or communicated any plans for staff changes.

I don’t think it was that.

What then? Why the concession? Also, is there any indication whether his new contract will also be a rollover? Thanks!

 

[DxCowboy]

How old are you?

Not knocking your age, but I wonder if you were around in the before times.

In my 4 years, I had 3 of them with Simmons and 1 with Les. No bowl games and we had to get a tetanus shot when entering the stadium. Bedlam in 2000 was more red than orange.

Some people now say the bowl streak was overrated. It's easy to say when you barely remember when just making one was a really big deal. The change in our culture happened for many reasons but a really really big one was the current HC. I think alot of people forget that.

I was going to games when Jim Stanley was coach-google him.

Bowls:

1980: 15

1990: 19

2000: 25

2010: 35

2024: 43

Context is generally important.

 

[zone2poke]

How old are you?

Not knocking your age, but I wonder if you were around in the before times.

In my 4 years, I had 3 of them with Simmons and 1 with Les. No bowl games and we had to get a tetanus shot when entering the stadium. Bedlam in 2000 was more red than orange.

Some people now say the bowl streak was overrated. It's easy to say when you barely remember when just making one was a really big deal. The change in our culture happened for many reasons but a really really big one was the current HC. I think alot of people forget that.

I saw the lean years before Gundawg. He’s been a very good coach, but one championship in 19 years is nothing to brag about about. He’s been extremely well supported with money and facilities. I think we’ve pretty much seen the ceiling on his abilities.

About Cowboy culture, a few years ago he talked about the terrible experiences of players who don’t enjoy their time in college, and he found that unacceptable. I completely agree with that, but I’m not the only one who’s noticed that he doesn’t even know the names of his players these days. From the outside, it looks like a clash between celebrity culture and Cowboy culture.

 

[Cowboyshoopspride]

I was going to games when Jim Stanley was coach-google him.

Bowls:

1980: 15

1990: 19

2000: 25

2010: 35

2024: 43

Context is generally important.

This is a great point. Multiple teams in the 18 year streak really didn’t deserve a bowl game. There are so many meaningless games now, that lose money, it requires context.

Raise the number of required wins to 7-8, or don’t count games against sub FBS division teams. Or both.

So many ways to improve the product but the powers that be are lame ducks and the two commissioners in charge, and one TV network, are only out to protect themselves.

There could be a case study, and may be down the road, on how tank a multibillion dollar entity with less than a whimper from the stakeholders.

 

[DxCowboy]

This is a great point. Multiple teams in the 18 year streak really didn’t deserve a bowl game. There are so many meaningless games now, that lose money, it requires context.

Raise the number of required wins to 7-8, or don’t count games against sub FBS division teams. Or both.

So many ways to improve the product but the powers that be are lame ducks and the two commissioners in charge, and one TV network, are only out to protect themselves.

There could be a case study, and may be down the road, on how tank a multibillion dollar entity with less than a whimper from the stakeholders.

ESPN owns what, all but 4 of the bowl games? They’re a TV and tourism product and anyone who’s paid attention recognizes this.

Is it great that we went to a bowl 18 straight years? Of course, and I went to several of them & had a great time.

I’m not sure why it’s so hard to grasp that doing something over 80 teams in a division of 120 do every year is the same barometer of success that it was decades ago.

 

[ClintDagger]

What then? Why the concession? Also, is there any indication whether his new contract will also be a rollover? Thanks!

I’ve heard two versions with admittedly very few specifics or support. One was for a form of insubordination and another was for something he did not that recently that they’ve had up their sleeve. Either way, they had to have SOMETHING to make Gundy meet in the middle. To believe otherwise is very naive. On the roll over provision, I understand that to be gone.

 

[MustangPokeFan]

How old are you?

Not knocking your age, but I wonder if you were around in the before times.

In my 4 years, I had 3 of them with Simmons and 1 with Les. No bowl games and we had to get a tetanus shot when entering the stadium. Bedlam in 2000 was more red than orange.

Some people now say the bowl streak was overrated. It's easy to say when you barely remember when just making one was a really big deal. The change in our culture happened for many reasons but a really really big one was the current HC. I think alot of people forget that.

I saw the lean years before Gundawg. He’s been a very good coach, but one championship in 19 years is nothing to brag about about. He’s been extremely well supported with money and facilities. I think we’ve pretty much seen the ceiling on his abilities.

About Cowboy culture, a few years ago he talked about the terrible experiences of players who don’t enjoy their time in college, and he found that unacceptable. I completely agree with that, but I’m not the only one who’s noticed that he doesn’t even know the names of his players these days. From the outside, it looks like a clash between celebrity culture and Cowboy culture.

I have been following Cowboy Football since Jim Stanley and QB Brent Blackmon (he was good, look him up). Gundy’s years are the ONLY consistently winning years in history minus 2-3 Pat Jones years and the Fenimore years. Is Gundy perfect, hell no! Does he piss people off, he definitely does. Does he often overachieve, he definitely does!

Younger fans who are so certain that what Gundy has done is make us “average” and that we are capable of so much more do not fully grasp just how hard it is to win here. Pretty much nobody has done so in 100+ years minus those Pat Jones years and the 1944 undefeated Fenimore year when half the available players in the country were storming Normandy Beach or fighting on Iwo Jima.

This past year is not hard to figure out. You want to know why Gundy hates the Portal and NIL? It’s because he coaches a program that is in last place in NIL money. He has no bullets in his holster. He tried to help it with the QR code idea and was shot down by the NCAA.

Maybe Zac Robinson comes in and has sustained success but I doubt it, he’ll be an NFL Head Coach soon. The more likely scenario is we kick Gundy to the curb and go back to a coaching carousel existence with a good year now and then and a permanent place as a Big 12 bottom feeder. Those of you who doubt this, some of us have lived it for 30+ years before Gundy. The reason you haven’t lived it is because of Gundy!

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[ClintDagger]

I have been following Cowboy Football since Jim Stanley and QB Brent Blackmon (he was good, look him up). Gundy’s years are the ONLY consistently winning years in history minus 2-3 Pat Jones years and the Fenimore years. Is Gundy perfect, hell no! Does he piss people off, he definitely does. Does he often overachieve, he definitely does!

Younger fans who are so certain that what Gundy has done is make us “average” and that we are capable of so much more do not fully grasp just how hard it is to win here. Pretty much nobody has done so in 100+ years minus those Pat Jones years and the 1944 undefeated Fenimore year when half the available players in the country were storming Normandy Beach or fighting on Iwo Jima.

This past year is not hard to figure out. You want to know why Gundy hates the Portal and NIL? It’s because he coaches a program that is in last place in NIL money. He has no bullets in his holster. He tried to help it with the QR code idea and was shot down by the NCAA.

Maybe Zac Robinson comes in and has sustained success but I doubt it, he’ll be an NFL Head Coach soon. The more likely scenario is we kick Gundy to the curb and go back to a coaching carousel existence with a good year now and then and a permanent place as a Big 12 bottom feeder. Those of you who doubt this, some of us have lived it for 30+ years before Gundy. The reason you haven’t lived it is because of Gundy!

Be careful what you wish for.

I think the time for the “be careful what you wish for stuff” is after like a 6-7 year or maybe multiple 7-5 type seasons. When you go 3-9 (let’s not forget Arkie gifted us one of those) with no vintage OU, Nebraska, aTm, UT, Mizzou on the schedule, winless in conference, blown out and embarrassed multiple times…. It’s hard to imagine it can get much worse.

Your message is that people should show gratitude for Gundy. Mine would be that Gundy should show gratitude for OSU and the opportunity he has had and still has. Like just show us you still care and are man enough to take and hold others to accountability. Bad seasons happen and are forgivable. Taking something for granted that a lot of people care about, spend a lot of money on, and are very passionate about just isn’t cool. He has made so much money and been the toast of the town for two decades of good times. Man up and own the mess you made this year. It’s only fair to take the good with the bad.

 

[DxCowboy]

I have been following Cowboy Football since Jim Stanley and QB Brent Blackmon (he was good, look him up). Gundy’s years are the ONLY consistently winning years in history minus 2-3 Pat Jones years and the Fenimore years. Is Gundy perfect, hell no! Does he piss people off, he definitely does. Does he often overachieve, he definitely does!

Younger fans who are so certain that what Gundy has done is make us “average” and that we are capable of so much more do not fully grasp just how hard it is to win here. Pretty much nobody has done so in 100+ years minus those Pat Jones years and the 1944 undefeated Fenimore year when half the available players in the country were storming Normandy Beach or fighting on Iwo Jima.

This past year is not hard to figure out. You want to know why Gundy hates the Portal and NIL? It’s because he coaches a program that is in last place in NIL money. He has no bullets in his holster. He tried to help it with the QR code idea and was shot down by the NCAA.

Maybe Zac Robinson comes in and has sustained success but I doubt it, he’ll be an NFL Head Coach soon. The more likely scenario is we kick Gundy to the curb and go back to a coaching carousel existence with a good year now and then and a permanent place as a Big 12 bottom feeder. Those of you who doubt this, some of us have lived it for 30+ years before Gundy. The reason you haven’t lived it is because of Gundy!

Be careful what you wish for.

It almost makes you wonder if historic financial investments were made or something. Almost to the point that those comparing eras are comparing apples to shrimp, and never want to include this in the discussion.

 

[NTXcowboy78]

I have been following Cowboy Football since Jim Stanley and QB Brent Blackmon (he was good, look him up). Gundy’s years are the ONLY consistently winning years in history minus 2-3 Pat Jones years and the Fenimore years. Is Gundy perfect, hell no! Does he piss people off, he definitely does. Does he often overachieve, he definitely does!

Younger fans who are so certain that what Gundy has done is make us “average” and that we are capable of so much more do not fully grasp just how hard it is to win here. Pretty much nobody has done so in 100+ years minus those Pat Jones years and the 1944 undefeated Fenimore year when half the available players in the country were storming Normandy Beach or fighting on Iwo Jima.

This past year is not hard to figure out. You want to know why Gundy hates the Portal and NIL? It’s because he coaches a program that is in last place in NIL money. He has no bullets in his holster. He tried to help it with the QR code idea and was shot down by the NCAA.

Maybe Zac Robinson comes in and has sustained success but I doubt it, he’ll be an NFL Head Coach soon. The more likely scenario is we kick Gundy to the curb and go back to a coaching carousel existence with a good year now and then and a permanent place as a Big 12 bottom feeder. Those of you who doubt this, some of us have lived it for 30+ years before Gundy. The reason you haven’t lived it is because of Gundy!

Be careful what you wish for.

Genuine question here: so we keep Gundy until he decides to retire or dies from old age? And then after that we just accept that nobody could possibly be as good as he was and just reminisce about the good old days and our new reality of being at the bottom of the Big 12?
I think it’s possible to acknowledge what Gundy has done for our program and at the same time acknowledge that someone else can now come in and elevate it even higher, due to Gundy’s contributions. But to have the mindset that only Gundy is capable of a winning OSU program isn’t realistic either.
Just my two cents.

 

[TXPoke]

This past year is not hard to figure out. You want to know why Gundy hates the Portal and NIL? It’s because he coaches a program that is in last place in NIL money. He has no bullets in his holster. He tried to help it with the QR code idea and was shot down by the NCAA.

Gundy requested boosters put money towards the athletic fund rather than NIL. That is specifically at his direction. He set himself behind the 8 ball. This direction is on Weiberg too, because one of his main functions as AD is fundraising.

"Woe is me, it's tough to win here" is such a defeatist mentality. Newsflash, it's tough to win everywhere. OSU as an organization was bad until the most recent era in college football coinciding with Gundy taking over as HC. Programs win championships and sustain success, not coaches. Gundy is not the OSU program. He has left a significant mark on what has transpired here over the past 2 decades, I don't think anyone can logically discount that.

But we have to strive for better every single year, in every aspect of the program. That includes staff. If you're not improving, you're moving backwards.

 

[zone2poke]

I was going to games when Jim Stanley was coach-google him.

Bowls:

1980: 15

1990: 19

2000: 25

2010: 35

2024: 43

Context is generally important.

I was there when Jimmy ran it up the middle 50 times a game.

I saw the lean years before Gundawg. He’s been a very good coach, but one championship in 19 years is nothing to brag about about. He’s been extremely well supported with money and facilities. I think we’ve pretty much seen the ceiling on his abilities.

About Cowboy culture, a few years ago he talked about the terrible experiences of players who don’t enjoy their time in college, and he found that unacceptable. I completely agree with that, but I’m not the only one who’s noticed that he doesn’t even know the names of his players these days. From the outside, it looks like a clash between celebrity culture and Cowboy culture.

I have been following Cowboy Football since Jim Stanley and QB Brent Blackmon (he was good, look him up). Gundy’s years are the ONLY consistently winning years in history minus 2-3 Pat Jones years and the Fenimore years. Is Gundy perfect, hell no! Does he piss people off, he definitely does. Does he often overachieve, he definitely does!

Younger fans who are so certain that what Gundy has done is make us “average” and that we are capable of so much more do not fully grasp just how hard it is to win here. Pretty much nobody has done so in 100+ years minus those Pat Jones years and the 1944 undefeated Fenimore year when half the available players in the country were storming Normandy Beach or fighting on Iwo Jima.

This past year is not hard to figure out. You want to know why Gundy hates the Portal and NIL? It’s because he coaches a program that is in last place in NIL money. He has no bullets in his holster. He tried to help it with the QR code idea and was shot down by the NCAA.

Maybe Zac Robinson comes in and has sustained success but I doubt it, he’ll be an NFL Head Coach soon. The more likely scenario is we kick Gundy to the curb and go back to a coaching carousel existence with a good year now and then and a permanent place as a Big 12 bottom feeder. Those of you who doubt this, some of us have lived it for 30+ years before Gundy. The reason you haven’t lived it is because of Gundy!

Be careful what you wish for.

You make it sound like Gundawg is a victim of NIL and poor resources. He’s part of the problem because he doesn’t embrace NIL and the new culture of college football, including the new power of players to make choices. He’s not out beating the bushes and raising money for NIL. He’s made it clear that he is above all that money business in college football.

Maybe these latest contract negotiations will change all that, but I seriously doubt it. We’ll likely get more of the passive-aggressive “I can’t say what I really think” from him for another year or more.

 

[ClintDagger]

I was there when Jimmy ran it up the middle 50 times a game.



You make it sounds like Gundawg is a victim of NIL and poor resources. He’s part of the problem because he doesn’t embrace NIL and the new culture of college football, including the new power of players to make choices. He’s not out beating the bushes and raising money for NIL. He’s made it clear that he is above all that money business in college football.

Maybe these latest contract negotiations will change all that, but I seriously doubt it. We’ll likely get more of the passive-aggressive “I can’t say what I really think” from him for another year or more.

Yeah like bro, THIS IS THE EFFING JOB! NIL, portal, that’s what the job entails. If you don’t want to do the job, meaning ALL of the job then move over and go fishing and hunting and watch your kids play ball while you still can. There’s scores of hungry people that would crawl on their hands and knees to Stillwater for the money and opportunity. And I bet they can at least match 3-9 (0-9).

 

[DxCowboy]

Genuine question here: so we keep Gundy until he decides to retire or dies from old age? And then after that we just accept that nobody could possibly be as good as he was and just reminisce about the good old days and our new reality of being at the bottom of the Big 12?
I think it’s possible to acknowledge what Gundy has done for our program and at the same time acknowledge that someone else can now come in and elevate it even higher, due to Gundy’s contributions. But to have the mindset that only Gundy is capable of a winning OSU program isn’t realistic either.
Just my two cents.

Trashing the program, huh?

 

[DxCowboy]

I was there when Jimmy ran it up the middle 50 times a game.



You make it sound like Gundawg is a victim of NIL and poor resources. He’s part of the problem because he doesn’t embrace NIL and the new culture of college football, including the new power of players to make choices. He’s not out beating the bushes and raising money for NIL. He’s made it clear that he is above all that money business in college football.

Maybe these latest contract negotiations will change all that, but I seriously doubt it. We’ll likely get more of the passive-aggressive “I can’t say what I really think” from him for another year or more.

I remember watching us lose to West Texas State with Jimmy on a sweltering day. The poor kids in the band had wool uniforms and were dropping. Good old west end zone days!

 

[cowboyinexile]

I was going to games when Jim Stanley was coach-google him.

Bowls:

1980: 15

1990: 19

2000: 25

2010: 35

2024: 43

Context is generally important.

What is your motivation in all of this?

 

[inappropriate.name]

I was going to games when Jim Stanley was coach-google him.

Bowls:

1980: 15

1990: 19

2000: 25

2010: 35

2024: 43

Context is generally important.

Even with context the streak was 6th on the active list.