AND getting a free education to boot!
Border problem.
- Thread starter gopokes83
- Start date
And I don't want to misinterpret what you posted. Are you actually taking my example of a benefit of immigration, claiming that is the total of benefits from it, and comparing it to some large, detail-free, nebulous cost "estimate" and declaring that it dwarfs the benefits?
Why don't you give us numbers on exactly what government programs and in what amount illegal immigrants get since you claimed that they get significant government assistance?
Nebulous cost? You provided absolutely zero financial dollars of SS benefit, I did that work for you. Because I knew your point was correct. Just as I assumed you knew my point was correct. Arguing those points is not political…they are facts.
Sorry, I incorrectly assumed you knew there was a cost of illegal immigration and they receive a lot of taxpayer funded benefits. Illegal immigrants receive free K-12 education (including free breakfast and lunch), healthcare (in many cases), free high-speed home internet (yes, they are eligible for ACP), discounted and free health insurance in many states, subsidized housing, food assistance, etc. And unsurprisingly, illegal immigrants have kids while in US. And those kids unlock additional benefits like SNAP.
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Sorry, I incorrectly assumed you knew what the word "exactly" meant. I asked for the specific (ie the actual program name, info etc) government assistance programs you were talking about.
You give:
schools- not wanting to educate the kids is a pretty extreme position and I really can't see "free schools" as the big enticer to immigrate.
ACP- a now defunct program so I won't bother to even see what hoops an illegal immigrant had to go through to get this.
Otherwise, yet another list of theoretical subsidies without any specifics. Finally, because you could not list any programs, you added a program for US citizens.
You could just as easily say they get free massage chairs, free first-class airplane tickets, and free country club membership. You have provided no evidence that these programs exist. I mean, at $450 Billion seems it would be easy to explain where that money is going above a $30 internet voucher and public schools. C'mon, dwarf me with costs.
Let’s keep this simple and just focus of cost of K-12 education which dwarfs the SS benefit. I am unclear why you are oddly wanting to play ignorant on cost of illegal immigration.
~4M children of illegal immigrants in K-12 schools. Average per pupil spend for K-12 in US is $16k/annually according to Dept of Edu.
I never said anything about not wanting to educate kids, but there is still a cost of illegal immigration to the tune of +$60B every year.
And FYI - ACP is not defunct. Just not funded past next year. It will pay billions this year. And yes, taxpayers pay for it. And it is $75 per HH per month where I live.
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@steross -I don't believe you ever said that the benefits to SS was the ONLY benefit of unlawful immigration.....did you?
I seem to recall pointing out that is was A benefit. Not the only one.
Someone is oddly wanting to play ignorant on benefits of unlawful entry and deliberately mischaracterizing what you said. *shoulder shrug*.
And some (I would imagine large, but don't have firm numbers) of those "children of illegal immigrants" are actually U.S. citizens born in this country. Seems odd to attribute the education of U.S. Citizens as a "cost of illegal immigration". I'm sure the response would be "anchor babies...natural born citizenship....blah blah blah".
I seem to recall pointing out that is was A benefit. Not the only one.
Someone is oddly wanting to play ignorant on benefits of unlawful entry and deliberately mischaracterizing what you said. *shoulder shrug*.
And some (I would imagine large, but don't have firm numbers) of those "children of illegal immigrants" are actually U.S. citizens born in this country. Seems odd to attribute the education of U.S. Citizens as a "cost of illegal immigration". I'm sure the response would be "anchor babies...natural born citizenship....blah blah blah".
Mike Flynn warns Lankford that he needs Soul Searching for negotiating the Border Bi-partisan bill and warns that his time in Politics is up this November.
Retired U.S. Army General and former National Security Advisor to then-President Donald Trump, Mike Flynn, is praising the work of Rep. Dan Bishop (R-NC) who “is fighting tooth and nail to impeach Mayorkas,” and lambasting “the coward” U.S. Senator James Lankford (R-OK) for negotiating a bipartisan border security bill.
Flynn, who was pardoned by Trump after twice pleading guilty to lying to the FBI, writes that senators like Lankford need “some serious soul searching” and warns them that “Come this NOV your time is up in politics.”
Note: Trump gave his “complete and total endorsement” to Lankford while running for re-election in 2022. As seen below, Trump wrote: “James Lankford is Strong on the Border, Tough on Crime, and Very Smart on the Economy.” In January 2023, Lankford became the senior Senator from Oklahoma after the retirement of his fellow Republican Senator Jim Inhofe.
Retired U.S. Army General and former National Security Advisor to then-President Donald Trump, Mike Flynn, is praising the work of Rep. Dan Bishop (R-NC) who “is fighting tooth and nail to impeach Mayorkas,” and lambasting “the coward” U.S. Senator James Lankford (R-OK) for negotiating a bipartisan border security bill.
Flynn, who was pardoned by Trump after twice pleading guilty to lying to the FBI, writes that senators like Lankford need “some serious soul searching” and warns them that “Come this NOV your time is up in politics.”
Note: Trump gave his “complete and total endorsement” to Lankford while running for re-election in 2022. As seen below, Trump wrote: “James Lankford is Strong on the Border, Tough on Crime, and Very Smart on the Economy.” In January 2023, Lankford became the senior Senator from Oklahoma after the retirement of his fellow Republican Senator Jim Inhofe.
mugatu
Ranger
Doesn't the GOP want more children for more workforce in the future? Lots of people are concerned with reduced birth rate and impacts of that on future society. Immigration is one easy way to offset that.
Currently, the GOP governors are lowering working ages, as they fight to keep a $7.25 minimum wage. When those kids are working late hours, then they can blame public schools for poor testing results too. A cynical double victory. I’m sure the number of Republican governors adopting this will increase, as it increases cheap labor, increases corporate profits, and lowers test scores in public schools significantly,thereby, increasing homeschooling and private schools. I’m just waiting for Stitt and Walters to endorse the changes.
mugatu
Ranger
Added benefit, more less educated kids means more kids that will fit their target voting block.
Problem with your theory is less and less kids are working and scores are dropping. In the last 30 years work force age 16-19 peaked out around 32% in 1999 and it's 19% now. Scores are dropping because we keep lowering expectations and getting away from core curriculum.....who cares if they can read let's offer fishing as an elective.
WSJ editorial board flabbergasted GOP is sabotaging its own bill
The Wall Street Journal editorial page this week expressed bewilderment that Republicans appear eager to torpedo a bipartisan immigration deal that is far more conservative than anything they imagined possible just months ago.
The bill, which was hammered out by Sens. James Lankford (R-OK), Kyrsten Sinema (I-AZ), and Chris Murphy (D-CT), completely forgoes a longtime demand from Democratic lawmakers for a pathway to citizenship to undocumented immigrants who were brought to America as children and who have spent the vast majority of their lives in the United States.
"If Republicans reject this bill, they will hand Democrats an argument that the GOP wants border chaos that they can exploit as a campaign issue," the editorial concludes. "The chaos will continue for at least another year. Republicans may think they can write a better law if Mr. Trump wins in November, but don’t count on it. Democrats will again demand much more in return. If Republicans pass up this rare chance at border reform, they may not get a better one."
Florida Republicans approve bill that would allow 16, 17-year-olds to work full-time, overnight
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Florida House Republicans have moved a bill that could make high school students work overnight and more than 30 hours a week through committee, even on a school night.HB 49 was filed by Rep. Linda Chaney in September 2023. The bill would not only allow companies to put minors aged 16-17 on night shifts, but it would also give them the authority to determine how late the student works regardless of how dangerous the work is.
The bill also features language that would allow employers to treat minors as adults under labor laws. It would also block counties and municipal governments from enforcing restrictions on underage employees.
If signed into law, Florida would become the latest state to pass major legislation weakening child labor laws after Arkansas, Iowa, New Jersey and New Hampshire.
A nationwide push for underage labor
Republicans have been trying to loosen child labor laws for at least a decade, as evidenced by the essay "A Case Against Child Labor Prohibitions," published by the right-wing think tank The Cato Institute in 2014. The essay argues in favor of child labor, claiming that children are generally sent to work because their families are poor and that outlawing child labor would do nothing except force them into "less desirable alternatives."Republicans and business leaders, many of whom have similarly derided child labor restrictions as government overreach, have tried to cast child labor as morally valuable for young people.
One of those Republicans was Rep. Kevin Steele, R-Dade City, a member of the House Commerce Committee who said the bill was necessary because "we've been weakening our society since before my time."
"I started working at, like, 13 years old. I had a full-time job, I wrestled, I played every sport you can imagine, so the idea that they can't afford to have these kids do this is an anomaly for me in my mind," Steele said.
Steele did not specify exactly what his former job was or how many hours he worked.
It has been illegal for companies in Florida to put children under 14 to work since Florida first passed its child labor law in 1913, which also restricted hours for workers aged 16 or younger and banned employers from putting school-aged workers on night shifts.
Republican Led States Are Rolling Back Regulations On Child Labor
Lawmakers in Republican-led states are proposing and passing legislation to roll back child labor regulations.
In states like Iowa, Missouri, Ohio, and Arkansas, newly passed or pending laws allow companies to hire children without work permits and allow children to work longer hours under more dangerous conditions in places like construction sites, meat packing plants, and automobile factories.
Meanwhile, the Biden administration is struggling to enforce existing federal regulations on child labor.
The Department of Labor reported a 69 percent increase in the number of children, many of them undocumented migrants, employed illegally by companies since 2018.
Republicans attack US child labor laws as violations rise
As child labor law violations have been on the rise in the US, some state legislators are pushing for changes at state and federal levels to roll back protections in what some see as a threat to return child labor to the country.The laws aim to expand permissible work hours, broaden the types of jobs young workers are permitted to do, and shield employers from liability for injuries, illnesses or workplace fatalities involving very young workers.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...ckers-sanitation-child-labor-animal-slaughter
Child labor law violations have increased in the US, with a 37% increase in fiscal year 2022, including 688 children working in hazardous conditions, with the number likely much higher as the recorded violations stem from what was found during labor inspections.
The Department of Labor issued a press release in July 2022 noting child labor violations and investigations have increased since 2015.
Several high-profile investigations involving child labor have been exposed over the past year, including the use of child labor in Hyundai and Kia supply chains in Alabama, at JBS meatpacking plants in Nebraska and Minnesota, and at fast-food chains including McDonald’s, Dunkin Donuts and Chipotle.
Amid these increases in child labor violations, legislative efforts have been introduced in several states to roll back child labor protections.
In Iowa, Republican legislators introduced a bill in January to expand the types of work 14- and 15-year-olds would be permitted to do as part of approved training programs, extend allowable work hours, and exempt employers from liability if these young workers are sickened, injured or killed on the job.
“It’s just crazy to me that we are re-litigating a lot of things that seem to have been settled 100, 120 or 140 years ago,” said Charlie Wishman, president of the Iowa AFL-CIO, which is opposing the bill.
Wishman added: “All of these protections have been put in place for a reason. Child labor law is there to make sure that kids are working in age-appropriate work activities or occupations that are appropriate for their age. We think this is a rewrite of our child labor laws in Iowa that are going way, way, way too far and has the potential to put kids in dangerous situations.”
The bill would permit the director of Iowa workforce development or the Iowa department of education to grant exceptions from any provision that restricts the types of jobs 14- and 15-year-olds can do if the work is classified as part of a work-based learning program and also strips workers’ compensation rights for these workers.
The protections being sought for companies are of particular concern to labor activists.
“In the Iowa legislation, one of the provisions is to exempt employers from civil liability due to the company’s negligence. It is astounding that they would have the gall to knowingly acknowledge that more young people will be harmed, but focus on exempting businesses,” said Marcy Goldstein-Gelb, co-executive director of the National Council for Occupational Safety and Health.
Goldstein-Gelb explained that throughout her career she has worked with families and co-workers of young workers who have died on the job, oftentimes in violation of child labor laws that industry groups have fought to repeal, such as in a case where a 16-year-old in Massachusetts was killed in 2000 while operating a golf cart on the job.
Young workers have much higher rates of non-fatal injuries on the job and the highest rates of injuries that require emergency department attention, Goldstein-Gelb noted. She argued that due to the vulnerability and inexperience of young workers, data on these workers is likely an undercount due to fears or barriers in being able to speak up and report dangerous situations or child labor law violations.
“I think there is this myth that you need to put young people in any possible job because there are openings. I think we are moving into a new age where we need to recognize that workers of all ages are seeking to earn a sustainable living and not put themselves in harm’s way,” added Goldstein-Gelb. “That’s why there are workers taking actions around the country and that needs to be supported rather than just saying we’re going to find people who have no alternative, the most vulnerable, and put them in jobs that are completely inappropriate.”
Other states are currently or have pushed similar legislation to roll back child labor protections.
In Ohio, legislators reintroduced a bipartisan bill this year to extend working hours for 14- and 15-year-olds with permission from a parent or legal guardian, and called on Congress to adopt the same rollbacks at the federal level.
Legislators in Minnesota introduced a bill in January 2023 to extend work hours for 14- and 15-year-olds.
Republicans in Wisconsin passed a bill that was vetoed by Governor Tony Evers in this month that would have expanded work hours for 14- and 15-year-olds. The New Jersey governor, Phil Murphy, signed a similar law in 2022 that expanded work hours for 14- and 15-year-olds to work longer hours during summer months and on holidays and expanded allowable work hours for 16- and 17-year-olds.
At the federal level, Republican congressman Dave Joyce of Ohio drafted a bill in 2022 to expand working hours for 14- and 15-year-olds during periods when school is in session.
Advocates for legislative efforts to roll back child labor regulations have cited labor shortages, particularly in industries that rely on young workers, and have been strongly backed by the National Federation of Independent Business.
“We think these laws are really ill advised and just asking kids to have negative educational impacts,” said Reid Maki, director of child labor issues and coordinator at the Child Labor Coalition, who argued it took significant efforts to enact child labor laws over 100 years ago, when there were thousands of children working long hours in unsafe jobs such as factories and mines.
Maki added: “Now there are states that want to go back toward that direction to deal with labor shortages by using teens, even to the extent of placing them in dangerous work environments – [it] doesn’t make sense. It’s disregarding their welfare.”
He argued that child labor laws in the US need to be strengthened and updated, including closing existing loopholes that permit young workers, some as young as 12 years old, to work unlimited hours in many jobs in the agriculture industry with parental permission when school is not in session.
An estimated 300,000 to 500,000 minors work in the US agriculture industry annually, with 48% of all young worker fatalities between 2001 to 2015 occurring in the agriculture industry.
“In my office, we can’t bring in a 12-year-old to make copies, 12 is too young, but we will take that same 12-year-old and put them in a field. The actual law allows them to work unlimited hours as long as school is not in session,” added Maki. “There is basically no protection.”
Typical response: blame teachers and education in general. Parents apparently are perfect in your mind. Just had one convicted of four counts of manslaughter for buying a gun for a minor kid with mental problems. Then he goes to school and kills four classmates. Helicopter parents and participation trophies sure don’t help. Fishing my ass! You haven’t been in schools lately. Electives hardly exist anymore. The truth of the matter is: far too many parents are raising a bunch of routinely lazy, anti authoritarian, crybaby kids whose coddling parents are too ignorant to realize the harm they’re doing to them. Every year the number of kids that will continue to be dependent after graduation will grow because in Momma and Daddy’s eyes their kid can do no wrong. I think you’re not considering migrants kids in your position. Those little boogers have hands made for picking fruits and vegetables. Get those youngsters to clean out the corrals at feed lots. Put them high up in the air roofing. Can’t drive yet, but they’d look good on the back of trash trucks. Don’t you agree Donnyboy? Or is it fishing classes in public schools that you believe to be the problem
