Border problem.

[gopokes83]

11,000 people crossing in a single day, 5.8 million since 2001! IMO This just isn’t sustainable for our country. We (Texas) have been shipping bus loads to sanctuary cities as fast as we can but that sh!T’s expensive! Had to LOL at the Governor of New York for calling out the National Guard because they can’t handle the influx of migrants. We’re drowning down here! I have a part ownership in a ranch between Van Horn and Sierra Blanca (no humblebrag) and we can’t keep the high fences from being torn up, the few old houses, barns and equipment are impossible to keep from being broken into and vandalized, and a hunting group was approached by a group with weapons last fall. It’s nothing to see hundreds of people passing through every time you check the game cams. The feds seem to have very little interest in attempting to even slow down the flow, or maybe they’re just too overwhelmed to do much.


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[Donnyboy]

Abbott is declaring an Invasion citing two articles of the constitution for states to independently defend themselves from foreign invaders granting war powers to state police....

This issue is going to cost whoever runs for the dems votes and maybe Biden the election. Border states have been dealing with this for years and while it is absolutely a publicity stunt in part the cities that labeled states as racist now crying is rich. It was easy to ignore the problem in Chicago till it came it your town. Also now that a Dem is in office they are no longer asylum seekers.....they are migrants. Something has to be done no matter who wins....the number of known border crossings since 2020 would be the 25th largest state in the union.

 

[Bowers3]

Abbott is declaring an Invasion citing two articles of the constitution for states to independently defend themselves from foreign invaders granting war powers to state police....

Well that could turn out horrendous.

This took decades to play out it'll take decades to fix. We need to invest in Central America. Help them fight corruption, open up their capital markets, and work to make them places people don't need to leave to escape poverty.

 

[Polds4OSU]

The Border patrol reports keep reporting month after month improvement.

CBP Releases August 2023 Monthly Update​

Release Date
September 22, 2023

WASHINGTON – U.S. Customs and Border Protection released operational statistics today for August 2023. CBP remains vigilant and expects to see fluctuations in migration, knowing that smugglers continue to mislead and exploit vulnerable individuals. Encounters along the Southwest border remain lower than levels seen in November and December 2022, when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) Public Health Order pursuant to Title 42 was in effect.

CBP Releases July 2023 Monthly Update​

Release Date
Fri, 08/18/2023

Statistics show border crossings remain below levels seen in months before Title 42 ended.
WASHINGTON – U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) today released operational statistics for July 2023. Statistics show that encounters along the Southwest Border were lower than in July 2022, and Border Patrol encounters remain lower than during the months leading up to the end of the Title 42 public health Order.

CBP Releases June 2023 Monthly Update​

Release Date
Tue, 07/18/2023
Statistics Show Lowest Southwest Border Encounters Since February 2021

WASHINGTON – U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) today released operational statistics for June 2023, which show a significant and continuing decline in migrant encounters along the Southwest border as well as successful drug interdiction efforts resulting from new enforcement initiatives. CBP’s total encounters along the Southwest border in June were the lowest in over two years, dropping nearly a third from May.

CBP Releases August 2023 Monthly Update

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

 

[Donnyboy]

Well that could turn out horrendous.

This took decades to play out it'll take decades to fix. We need to invest in Central America. Help them fight corruption, open up their capital markets, and work to make them places people don't need to leave to escape poverty.

I don't like it either Abbott is a tool....but we can't wait for nations, some of which are corrupt, to change their economies. We need to close and secure our border....like pretty much every other country in the world does. To stop the situation driving the desire/need to come here is complex. To stop the flow isn't as much.

 

[Bowers3]

I don't like it either Abbott is a tool....but we can't wait for nations, some of which are corrupt, to change their economies. We need to close and secure our border....like pretty much every other country in the world does. To stop the situation driving the desire/need to come here is complex. To stop the flow isn't as much.

If the goal is fewer illegal immigrants living here and taking advantage of infrastructure that should only be for citizens, I think it's more nuanced than you think. And maybe the dynamic has changed. But there's actually some evidence to suggest that a "closed border" increases the amount of illegal immigrants living here. If they can easily move back and forth, they come here, make money, and go back to their families with the cash. If it's much harder to get across, they come and stay because it's more expensive in time, money and effort to keep doing so. Either way, a closed border is a short term solution. Developing Central America is a long term solution.

 

[OrangeFan69]

I live in LA and go to TJ and Baja a few times a year.

The border is about as it has been the past 20 years here.

I both walk across and drive across, and I’m not seeing it.

How many of you guys are going through the Mexican border?

 

[Vakarian74]

If the goal is fewer illegal immigrants living here and taking advantage of infrastructure that should only be for citizens, I think it's more nuanced than you think. And maybe the dynamic has changed. But there's actually some evidence to suggest that a "closed border" increases the amount of illegal immigrants living here. If they can easily move back and forth, they come here, make money, and go back to their families with the cash. If it's much harder to get across, they come and stay because it's more expensive in time, money and effort to keep doing so. Either way, a closed border is a short term solution. Developing Central America is a long term solution.

did we have a immigration problem before Nixon changed our border policy?

 

[Donnyboy]

Oh it's all nuanced but we are welding border gates open now. 43K or in between the population of Stillwater and Owasso the 10th and 11th biggest cities in Oklahoma walked through those gates in Tucson in July alone. We can stop that. Buses are stopping in plain sight of the border to let folks out to just walk across....that doesn't happen anywhere else on Earth. There is zero resistance to cross the border now. That has to stop...are you going to catch everyone, no....do we have to leave the door open with a "Come on in" sign, no. Love or hate Trump or Biden or both the dynamic changed at the election....the data is undeniable.

We can institute a robust worker visa program and tax it to at least pay for itself. We can fine property owners and businesses that hire illegals. We can create an actual decent path to citizenship. That will take time. What you can't do is label people crossing to get here for any reason asylum seekers to hurt the other party....or have states try to gain war powers. But something has to be done and nothing is being done now at the federal level.

 

[Bowers3]

Oh it's all nuanced but we are welding border gates open now. 43K or in between the population of Stillwater and Owasso the 10th and 11th biggest cities in Oklahoma walked through those gates in Tucson in July alone. We can stop that. Buses are stopping in plain sight of the border to let folks out to just walk across....that doesn't happen anywhere else on Earth. There is zero resistance to cross the border now. That has to stop...are you going to catch everyone, no....do we have to leave the door open with a "Come on in" sign, no. Love or hate Trump or Biden or both the dynamic changed at the election....the data is undeniable.

We can institute a robust worker visa program and tax it to at least pay for itself. We can fine property owners and businesses that hire illegals. We can create an actual decent path to citizenship. That will take time. What you can't do is label people crossing to get here for any reason asylum seekers to hurt the other party....or have states try to gain war powers. But something has to be done and nothing is being done now at the federal level.

I tend to think it had more to do with the pandemic than the election, but that's all debatable. I've also wondered why this just now seems to be a political topic (or maybe it's always been and I'm only 35 so what do I know). Because in 2021, if you look at the data, there was a record 1.7 million. But this link shows that there's been decades of over 1 million illegal crossings per year in the past and it's actually been relatively low recently. Anway, it's interest stuff I guess.

United States Border Patrol Southwest Border Sectors Total Encounters By Fiscal Year

Edit: By "decades" I mean 1983 - 2006. Those years look to be the highest and averaged over 1 million crossings per year. We've been under 1 million per year since 2007, but then again yeah the spike to 1.7 million in 2021 (not in this data set but you can find it) is concerning.

Edit edit: I also wonder what the hell the spike in 2019 was?

 

[Donnyboy]

17-20 were low actually reaching the lowest in years at the beginning of 17 even down from Obama's lowest numbers which were very low in comparison to now....it wasn't just the pandemic. I'm not a Trump guy and the thought of another Biden/Trump election makes me sick but the numbers don't lie. This blew up after the election.

It's always been political....both parties lobbed insults neither did anything. Trump comes along promising a wall and all his other BS....but actually at least talked tough on the border. Dems stop using the term illegal alien that they all used for years and started calling them asylum seekers and talking kids in cages and all that mess to label Trump racist. Then they got elected and the come on in sign went up cause you can't call someone racist for 4 years then do what he did. Now the wave is hard to turn.....but they aren't asylum seekers anymore and you aren't racist if you don't want 10s of thousands of migrants in your city. The biggest change now is actually the shift in the demographics of those crossing. It used to be overwhelmingly Mexican nationals now its folks from everywhere. The numbers are just crazy now though.... I used the Tuscon example above...think of Tulsa and Broken Arrow none of the other suburbs just Tulsa and BA proper thats about the size of Tucson.....now imagine they have to absorb the entire population of Stillwater in one month. And there is another month....and another month.

 

[Bowers3]

17-20 were low actually reaching the lowest in years at the beginning of 17 even down from Obama's lowest numbers which were very low in comparison to now....it wasn't just the pandemic. I'm not a Trump guy and the thought of another Biden/Trump election makes me sick but the numbers don't lie. This blew up after the election.

It's always been political....both parties lobbed insults neither did anything. Trump comes along promising a wall and all his other BS....but actually at least talked tough on the border. Dems stop using the term illegal alien that they all used for years and started calling them asylum seekers and talking kids in cages and all that mess to label Trump racist. Then they got elected and the come on in sign went up cause you can't call someone racist for 4 years then do what he did. Now the wave is hard to turn.....but they aren't asylum seekers anymore and you aren't racist if you don't want 10s of thousands of migrants in your city. The biggest change now is actually the shift in the demographics of those crossing. It used to be overwhelmingly Mexican nationals now its folks from everywhere. The numbers are just crazy now though.... I used the Tuscon example above...think of Tulsa and Broken Arrow none of the other suburbs just Tulsa and BA proper thats about the size of Tucson.....now imagine they have to absorb the entire population of Stillwater in one month. And there is another month....and another month.

Did you look at the data? I'm trying not to be political here because I really don't think which party holds the presidency has much of an effect on illegal border crossings, but since you keep bringing up freaking Trump, the highest number of crossings since 2007 happened in 2019. You keep saying numbers don't lie, tell me what I'm missing.

Are the 2022 numbers out yet? I'd like to know how big the 2021 spike was. I'm sure there were less in 2022, but how much less?

Edit: 2017 - 2020 averaged 488,163 and 2013 - 2016 averaged 408,492....

 

[gopokes83]

I wonder if the BP estimates the number of crossers on the number they catch? Watching the news a day or so ago and they were reporting on a huge surge and it showed many dozens crossing the river and there was a BP boat maybe 50 feet away just watching, zero effort to turn them back. There was minor outrage when the reports showed the patrol cutting the razor wire the TX guard put in to allow the crossers to enter. My buddy Flounder is a BP agent but he’s been assigned to checking trucks crossing for a few years now. Drugs and people every day. The true asylum seekers are rare, and turn themselves in as soon as they get here. The people ( mainly young guys) that we see at the ranch aren’t looking to be caught for many reasons. We have 6k acres owned by 10 of us, there used to be 14 but guys won’t go anymore and sold out, and it’s damn sure no one is taking taking their wives or kids anymore. It’s just too dangerous. We have a guy that takes care of it and if he replaces a lock or repairs a door that’s been kicked in it’ll be broke into again within a couple of days. We’ve pretty much had to abandon the south fence line, we tried leaving the gates unlocked but they still cut it wherever they feel like it. It’s strange how many of the guys being caught at the border seem to have clean clothes and nice shoes, and they all seem to have cell phones, but no luggage. These are way different cats than the guys showing up trying to get to Arkansas to work a hog or chicken outfit.


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[gopokes83]

Anyhoo…. Solutions. We can’t completely militarize the border without bankrupting us, and I don’t think too many people are looking for that, but we could give much more financial support to the border states for their efforts at stopping the crossings. But what we can do is enforce the laws we currently have and enact new ones to strengthen our position. As has been said, actively punish people who hire illegals, from the top down with severe fines, maybe even jail time for repeat offenders. Start costing the Tyson family millions of dollars a month or maybe put one of the Walton kids in jail for a year and things would immediately tighten up from those companies and the ancillary companies that support them. You get caught hiring Juan’s lawn service and suddenly that mowing costs you 300 per guy on the crew and you’ll be more careful who you’re doing business with. Disincentivize the reason to be here and many less people will come.

Some solutions are distasteful but would be effective. Change the 14th amendment to eliminate Birthright Citizenship. Mass immediate deportations for anyone who’s been here less than 10 years and their entire families.

We could also impeach whoever is in power that refuses to enforce our border policies or actively subverts the border states attempts at protecting their borders. ( Lookin at you Joe!)


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[Donnyboy]

Did you look at the data? I'm trying not to be political here because I really don't think which party holds the presidency has much of an effect on illegal border crossings, but since you keep bringing up freaking Trump, the highest number of crossings since 2007 happened in 2019. You keep saying numbers don't lie, tell me what I'm missing.

Are the 2022 numbers out yet? I'd like to know how big the 2021 spike was. I'm sure there were less in 2022, but how much less?

Edit: 2017 - 2020 averaged 488,163 and 2013 - 2016 averaged 408,492....

My numbers were from Pew Institute, fox news and CNN article about welding the gates open, Texas Tribune

 

[Donnyboy]

Johnson faces criticism following Chicago's $29M winterized tents contract with controversial company

GardaWorld — the same private security company that busses migrants to Chicago — has been contracted by the city for $29 million to build winterized tents to house them.

www.nbcchicago.com

Create the disease and sell the cure....

The same company that has a contract to bus migrants from Florida to Chicago has a 29M contract to build a tent city to house them, feed them, laundry, and transportation for basic needs. And if you think living in a tent sounds bad....don't worry the tents can maintain a temp of 70 degrees at the super low temp of 40 degrees so when the temps go negative with a freezing wind coming off the lake I'm sure it will all be fine.

This is American politics in a nutshell. We have an administration who reversed everything the last two did creating a crisis....we have a governor playing politics bussing folks to cities that were playing politics saying they are sanctuary cities because they were unaffected at the time....and one company getting rich of both sides idiocy.

 

[gopokes83]

It’s costing New York 40k per person (so far) to temporarily house the folks shipped up there. No wonder they don’t appreciate this problem showing up on their doorstep.


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[Bowers3]

Did you look at the data? I'm trying not to be political here because I really don't think which party holds the presidency has much of an effect on illegal border crossings, but since you keep bringing up freaking Trump, the highest number of crossings since 2007 happened in 2019. You keep saying numbers don't lie, tell me what I'm missing.

Are the 2022 numbers out yet? I'd like to know how big the 2021 spike was. I'm sure there were less in 2022, but how much less?

Edit: 2017 - 2020 averaged 488,163 and 2013 - 2016 averaged 408,492....

Holy Hell 2022 was even worse. Yeah, we've had HUGE spikes in illegal crossings the last two years. From Axios:

Migrant border crossings in the 2022 fiscal year topped 2.76 million, breaking the previous record, according to data from Customs and Border Protection.

Why it matters: The sharp increase in border crossings comes as the Biden administration has faced challenges in trying to formalize its own border policy.

Details: The CBP said it stopped migrants more than 2,766,582 times for the 12 months ending on Sept. 30, 2022, which is much higher than the 1.72 million times from the previous fiscal year.

• The increase was driven by an influx of Venezuelans, Cubans and Nicaraguans crossing the border, CBP said.
• According to CBP, the "total encounters somewhat overstate the number of unique individuals arriving at the border" because many individuals who attempt to cross the border are sent to Mexico and try to cross again.

What they're saying: "While this early data is not reflected in the latest report, it confirms what we’ve said all along: when there is a lawful and orderly way to enter the country, individuals will be less likely to put their lives in the hands of smugglers and try to cross the border unlawfully," said CBP commissioner Chris Magnus in a statement.

The big picture: The Biden administration has been attempting to build a border policy, but it's been filled with hurdles and challenges, CNN reports. The White House and the Department of Homeland Security often spar on what works, leading to disagreements over policy.

• Republicans have hit out at the Biden administration on the issue, which has been a logistical and political nightmare for the Democrats. Recently, Republican governors have been transporting migrants and asylum seekers by bus and plane to Democratic cities.

@gopokes83 the second bullet point under "details" may answer your question about the border patrol's numbers. They may be "somewhat overstated" but this is still a huge concern.

 

[Bowers3]

I also think we Americans tend to look at world events through our local political lenses. I'm sure this argument will continue to devolve into Republican vs. Democrat without acknowledging the events in recent years in Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, etc. that led to the recent influx. I'm just here to provide the numbers and I find them very interesting/surprising.

 

[Donnyboy]

I also think we Americans tend to look at world events through our local political lenses. I'm sure this argument will continue to devolve into Republican vs. Democrat without acknowledging the events in recent years in Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, etc. that led to the recent influx. I'm just here to provide the numbers and I find them very interesting/surprising.

This is one of the big changes....

The demographics changing of who is crossing now has contributed to the surge. We have always had tons of folks crossing....too many....regardless who is in office but with the current policies in place the word is out to everyone. Come on over we aren't doing anything about it. Unaccompanied minors and persons from places other than Mexico have gone through the roof. I read an article saying the change in policy has dramatically lowered the costs. Used to be you had to figure out a way to get from your home to the border then pay a hefty amount or perform dangerous tasks in order to get your escort across the border because if you were caught you were more than likely expelled.....now you just need a bus ticket to walking distance. While the bulk is still is people from Mexico/Central America persons from as far as China have been apprehended walking across to Texas.