Yep. Then he replaced each position at an upgrade
2023 Basketball Offseason
- Thread starter Cowboys4ever
- Start date
I will withhold judgment on boynton and the portal until after it is completed
Cowboys4ever
New member
I’m just happy to see Kalinin didn’t settle for Pacific
Ford didn't suck. If Ford sucked here, then 80% of college basketball coaches suck. We made 5 NCAA tournament appearances in 8 seasons. A lot of programs would kill for that. There has to be something between great and suck. Now, it was time for Ford to go. His stay here was starting to grow stale, only legends should stick around for decades.
And we made a good hire in Brad Underwood. He brought a ton of energy back into the program. Now, we didn't realize how mercenary he was and we had to pay the price for that.
Then our administration felt humiliated. They decided not to go after another veteran coach with some mid-major tournament success and instead went with a young recruiting wizard with very little experience. I said when he was hired that I thought Boynton was a scapegoat. A cheap way to ride out a PR mess before moving onto a more viable option in 3-ish years. Then we all saw how easy it was to like Boynton, then the FBI nonsense, the NCAA BS, and Cade Cunningham happened. We all bonded and a raise came. Now, it appears Boynton isn't evolving in his processes rapidly enough to survive in this supremely brutal league (and word on the street is, Yormark only wants the basketball to get tougher through expansion).
I think Boynton probably has a Leonard Hamilton type of career trajectory ahead of him. Not because he is black, but because Hamilton is the one coach between Iba & Sutton we had that actually had a very successful career after us. I think he is taking a lot of lumps here that he will learn from.
Grad transfers.
Once they leave I tend to pay little attention honestly. I did and do think leaving OSU to go to Pacific to leave there for UNLV is dumb. So is leaving Memphis and Texas Tech to come here and then leave again.
The only way you don't do a buy-out is if you think the next coach won't be any better, therefore ticket sales and all that goes with it doesn't improve (concessions, merch, donations, etc).
I couldn't imagine running a company and deciding that our 2nd largest business unit will keep floundering because we don't want to pay to make the changes required to increase the profits which would pay for the changes made.
I couldn't imagine running a company and deciding that our 2nd largest business unit will keep floundering because we don't want to pay to make the changes required to increase the profits which would pay for the changes made.
Perfect analogy. The business unit cannot be hamstrung permanently. Make the adjustmens and keep pushing forward. And I do not say that as someone that “wants him fired” but I do question if he can lead the unit out of the red and back to the black, let alone to the ROI levels we’d all like to see.
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PokeJ
New member
Does any sport besides football operate in the black? TV contracts are negotiated primarily on football. I could be wrong but I doubt BB has operated the in the black since Sutton. Even then it would take awhile to make up $9m.
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HacklemanPoke
Deputy
I’m not suggesting we don’t try to improve our situation and I’ve been vocal about Boynton to this point not showing he’s “learning on the job.” I don’t even agree with the argument that he’s a good recruiter.
But today his buyout is $11MM+. After next year it’s $9MM and the next is still north of $6MM.
A new practice facility is probably in the $25MM-$30MM range.
Maybe it’s not an “or” question and both are possible. We are just in a bad spot and the admin is going to earn their keep if they figure out a way out of this mess.
Next season is going to be a struggle w our projected roster. If past performance is indicative of future expectations, then from a bench standpoint I don’t see how we even make the tournament. We’ll probably be competitive in conference games but is there really any expectation to finish in the top 1/2 or really 2/3rds given Boynton has never finish higher than 5th and has a career conference winning percentage of 0.435?
No arguments here. Although I think way more is being made of the buyout than is realistic.
Again, I am not a guy that wants that, I just don’t believe we’re as handcuffed as it seems at surface level.
That will be negotiated or he will be encouraged to take whatever back East job comes up
Osucowboys344
Deputy
Hearing Avery Anderson to TCU
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Okstatekerr
Sheriff
That's always been my take. He will be a great coach, just not here sadly.
Based on what evidence? Being likable and really active on social media hasn't translated to winning. He's hovering at 0.546 overall / 0.435 in conference. Our peak in 6 seasons is 0.700 overall / 0.611 in conference.
We are in a really tough conference, so I understand not having consistent top 3 finishes in the league. What I don't understand is the lack of meaningful progress towards that goal in 6 seasons. My only expectation for people (especially in a professional competitive setting) is to see improvement. We aren't seeing that. In my opinion we need to be looking for a replacement as soon as feasibly possible, which may be in 2-3 seasons
I really really really really really want/wanted Boynton to succeed. He is nearly a perfect representative of an organization. He just hasn't been able to unlock the secret to being a great coach yet. How long do we pay him millions of dollars to see if he can?
His missing piece is simple, hiring staff to cover more of the teaching/coaching, especially in regards to offense. If I recall correctly, Sean Sutton was the person behind our offense during the last great run, not the Head Coach.Based on what evidence? Being likable and really active on social media hasn't translated to winning. He's hovering at 0.546 overall / 0.435 in conference. Our peak in 6 seasons is 0.700 overall / 0.611 in conference.
We are in a really tough conference, so I understand not having consistent top 3 finishes in the league. What I don't understand is the lack of meaningful progress towards that goal in 6 seasons. My only expectation for people (especially in a professional competitive setting) is to see improvement. We aren't seeing that. In my opinion we need to be looking for a replacement as soon as feasibly possible, which may be in 2-3 seasons
I really really really really really want/wanted Boynton to succeed. He is nearly a perfect representative of an organization. He just hasn't been able to unlock the secret to being a great coach yet. How long do we pay him millions of dollars to see if he can?
It doesn't mean he'll learn it. Travis Ford just needs to bring in people to tighten up his teams' fundamentals and run stronger sets. But he hasn't done it yet and is on the hot seat going into the 23-24 season.
HacklemanPoke
Deputy
The equation has to boil down to lack of enthusiasm in the program measured by season ticket renewals/new tickets, NIL momentum and reception on pitch to potential donors for new practice facility. I can’t imagine w the results from the past season compounded by transfers out and next seasons expectations that indicators are pointing to success on any front.
So you probably have loss of revenue in season tickets, decreasing NIL opportunities and no practice facility momentum. That to me becomes circular and the only thing that rejuvenates excitement for the program is sustained winning or a new coach.
Let’s go w the premise that we are able to negotiate a 75% buyout to part ways. That’s $8.5MMish today. $6.75MM next yr and north of $4.5MM 2 yrs from now.
They have to be modeling a 5-10 yr scenario where we buyout Boynton and hire a new coach. Do you go w option A and take another flyer on an unproven P5 coach (could be an assistant somewhere or an “up and coming” mid major) for $1MM per yr and use the savings of Boynton’s contract at $3MM per yr which gives you $2MM in savings? Sign one of these guys to a 3 yr 5 yr deal w no buyout for yrs 1-3 which would save you up to $6MM over the first 3 yrs vs Boynton. Then you look at the $6MM in salary savings and financially “justify” a Boynton negotiated buyout after next season? Or do you go w Option B and hire a proven winner in a P5 that will cost you at least what Boynton was making but you immediately jumpstart towards success?
To buyout Boynton after next season you’ll pay him $6-9MM. Do you try to recoup that by going the discount route for the 4th straight time (Ford/Undie/Boynton were all originally “discounted” contracts? Or do you land somewhere between what we currently pay Boynton ($3MM) and the discount route ($1MM)?
Not saying we hire him bc he didn’t fare so well last time in Big12 but for reference it looks like McDermont was making $1.45MM.
So you probably have loss of revenue in season tickets, decreasing NIL opportunities and no practice facility momentum. That to me becomes circular and the only thing that rejuvenates excitement for the program is sustained winning or a new coach.
Let’s go w the premise that we are able to negotiate a 75% buyout to part ways. That’s $8.5MMish today. $6.75MM next yr and north of $4.5MM 2 yrs from now.
They have to be modeling a 5-10 yr scenario where we buyout Boynton and hire a new coach. Do you go w option A and take another flyer on an unproven P5 coach (could be an assistant somewhere or an “up and coming” mid major) for $1MM per yr and use the savings of Boynton’s contract at $3MM per yr which gives you $2MM in savings? Sign one of these guys to a 3 yr 5 yr deal w no buyout for yrs 1-3 which would save you up to $6MM over the first 3 yrs vs Boynton. Then you look at the $6MM in salary savings and financially “justify” a Boynton negotiated buyout after next season? Or do you go w Option B and hire a proven winner in a P5 that will cost you at least what Boynton was making but you immediately jumpstart towards success?
To buyout Boynton after next season you’ll pay him $6-9MM. Do you try to recoup that by going the discount route for the 4th straight time (Ford/Undie/Boynton were all originally “discounted” contracts? Or do you land somewhere between what we currently pay Boynton ($3MM) and the discount route ($1MM)?
Not saying we hire him bc he didn’t fare so well last time in Big12 but for reference it looks like McDermont was making $1.45MM.
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That may be true, but where do you think he learned that? Also, Sean wasn't the one calling timeouts and managing the games. Eddie did that, and he did it well.
BisonCowboy
New member
I agree. Also, there is more money for these kids to transfer and guarantee money than staying at one school. Stay and play or leave and play and make several thousand or even more.
I’m not defending Boynton but this is the new way of NCAA
Allegedly real. If so, I’m closer to being back on board with HCMB. Give me a coach with a little piss and vinegar for anything and anyone not 100% Cowboy. Can be a nice guy when needed but get in competitive mode and kick some ass. You don’t want to be here, see ya.
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