mugatu
Ranger
Absolutely. If US doesn't back Europe and NATO strongly then they need their own nuclear stockpiles. I think for Europe, only UK and France have much of anything, and those are in VERY small numbers.
Ukraine. Ukraine. Ukraine.
- Thread starter Llcoolw
- Start date
Yep. Russia spent 40 years creating an asset and it's really paying off now
But it’s been proven he didn’t collude. Hell he’s even going to put a counter report to the mueller report to prove it’s wrong.
UrbanCowboy
New member
I would love for a Trump supporter to explain to me how to take our current stance as anything but a complete capitulation to Russia. Which of Russia's pre-war goals isn't being satisfied by the rumblings we are hearing?
Best they can come up with is well at least Americans aren’t getting killed.
mugatu
Ranger
They will say they don't care. Not our fight. Just like Donny has been arguing that we shouldn't be involved in helping Ukraine.
PF5
Sheriff
Trump says Zelensky ‘should have never started’ war with Russia the hill
...
Trump vowed to end the war during his presidential campaign and on Tuesday repeated his claim that the war would never have started if he had been president. He spoke after U.S. and Russian officials met in Saudi Arabia without Ukraine officials.
“I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it’s going very well,” Trump told reporters at Mar-a-Lago on the heels of the meeting between U.S. and Russian officials.
“But today I heard, ‘Oh, well we weren’t invited.’ Well, you’ve been there for three years,” Trump continued. “You should’ve ended it in three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land, and no people would have been killed, and no city would have been demolished and not one dome would have been knocked down. But they chose not to do it that way.”
Trump went on to rail against former President Biden as “so pathetic” before again criticizing Zelensky.
“Look, you have leadership — and I like him personally. He’s fine. But I don’t care about personally. I care about getting the job done. You have leadership now that’s allowed a war to go on that should have never even happened, even without the United States.”
...
...
Trump vowed to end the war during his presidential campaign and on Tuesday repeated his claim that the war would never have started if he had been president. He spoke after U.S. and Russian officials met in Saudi Arabia without Ukraine officials.
“I think I have the power to end this war. And I think it’s going very well,” Trump told reporters at Mar-a-Lago on the heels of the meeting between U.S. and Russian officials.
“But today I heard, ‘Oh, well we weren’t invited.’ Well, you’ve been there for three years,” Trump continued. “You should’ve ended it in three years. You should have never started it. You could have made a deal. I could have made a deal for Ukraine that would have given them almost all of the land, and no people would have been killed, and no city would have been demolished and not one dome would have been knocked down. But they chose not to do it that way.”
Trump went on to rail against former President Biden as “so pathetic” before again criticizing Zelensky.
“Look, you have leadership — and I like him personally. He’s fine. But I don’t care about personally. I care about getting the job done. You have leadership now that’s allowed a war to go on that should have never even happened, even without the United States.”
...
I don't see what Russia gives up there and getting us out of the Baltics is probably something they didn't think was achievable when the war started. What happens when Putin attacks them? Do we say they aren't our problem?
mugatu
Ranger
That's the fear, right? Baltic nations are NATO members, so in theory if Putin invades them then we have to defend... but given who has control over our military right now I don't think we would.
See now this I can get behind. Good post from Vance. No hyperbole, no victim shaming, no outright lies like Trump’s posts.
However I do still question how many concessions the administration is willing to give Russia so damn early in the negotiations.
However I do still question how many concessions the administration is willing to give Russia so damn early in the negotiations.
I know where Donny is getting his takes.
GOGETUMPOKE
Ranger
It's the correct take.
Mostly. But not when mixed in with the other bullsh*t. That's what I liked about Vance's post. He made no mention of the Russian propaganda talking points: expansionist NATO, Ukrainian biolabs/corruption, yada yada yada.
And again, I do very much disagree with the administration giving up so much and demanding so little from Russia. Like Vance said, we have leverage too.
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