Ukraine. Ukraine. Ukraine.

[Bowers3]

I never said countries can’t defend themselves.

69 days left in his term. He is not mentally competent for the job. Diplomacy has been a failure. This is so incredibly stupid. Go back to the beach, smell some kids, pardon some friends, make heartfelt speeches…..then enjoy retirement. Don’t mess with wars.

Can I ask you how the world should respond if you’re wrong about Putin’s (to me obvious) Soviet expansionist goals? He didn’t stop at Georgia or Crimea. If we back off and he takes Kiev. Then moves on to Bulgaria, Moldova, Belarus, etc. Where would your line be? Or to prevent “full scale war” do we sit on our hands then too?

 

[Donnyboy]

He's not messing with it. He's removing restrictions that never should have been in place.

That’s messing with it. He shouldn’t be doing anything now. His party nor the country want him doing anything

 

[Donnyboy]

Can I ask you how the world should respond if you’re wrong about Putin’s (to me obvious) Soviet expansionist goals? He didn’t stop at Georgia or Crimea. If we back off and he takes Kiev. Then moves on to Bulgaria, Moldova, Belarus, etc. Where would your line be? Or to prevent “full scale war” do we sit on our hands then too?

Why now? They’ve done nothing but throw money at it. No one wants him in office. He doesn’t meet with his cabinet and when he does his wife runs it. Why do this now when his time is over. And it didn’t matter who won his time is over

I think I would really enjoy having a beer and talking about the complexity of this and where we agree and disagree. But this now from him is stupid. Just go away Joe.

 

[mugatu]

That’s messing with it. He shouldn’t be doing anything now. His party nor the country want him doing anything

Who in the Dem party has been vocal against this move?

 

[Donnyboy]

Who in the Dem party has been vocal against this move?

His party just removed him from office. They don’t want him in charge.

 

[Bowers3]

Why now? They’ve done nothing but throw money at it. No one wants him in office. He doesn’t meet with his cabinet and when he does his wife runs it. Why do this now when his time is over. And it didn’t matter who won his time is over

I think I would really enjoy having a beer and talking about the complexity of this and where we agree and disagree. But this now from him is stupid. Just go away Joe.

Oh I’m not speaking of the recent weapons approval. I mean Russia’s behavior as a whole and the world’s response.

 

[mugatu]

His party just removed him from office. They don’t want him in charge.

Removed from office? So he's not president anymore? I must have missed that, I thought they just had him step down from reelection. I guess Kamala is the first woman Pres after all.

When is a president no longer president? I thought it was on Jan 20.

 

[Donnyboy]

Removed from office? So he's not president anymore? I must have missed that, I thought they just had him step down from reelection. I guess Kamala is the first woman Pres after all.

When is a president no longer president? I thought it was on Jan 20.

Don’t be dense.

 

[mugatu]

Oh I’m not speaking of the recent weapons approval. I mean Russia’s behavior as a whole and the world’s response.

I've not been a fan on how we (West) supported Ukraine.

It should have been much less gradual and without large restrictions once they survived the initial invasion and showed they weren't going to collapse.

 

[mugatu]

Don’t be dense.

So he is pres, glad we cleared that up.

You would have been against this any time he made the call, because you're either an isolationist, against anything Biden says/does or a Putin defender. I'm hoping its the first.

 

[Donnyboy]

So he is pres, glad we cleared that up.

You would have been against this any time he made the call, because you're either an isolationist, against anything Biden says/does or a Putin defender. I'm hoping its the first.

I actually think thie war could reach a point where this is needed. I think this situation has been handled incredibly poorly.

The timing of this and who it is from is just iidiotic. I hope @cowboyinexile is right and nothing comes of it but taking any chance is stupid.

 

[Bowers3]

I think it boils down to the role you want the US to have on the world stage. Is it a privilege to be the only superpower both economically and militarily? Yes. But it’s also a huge burden and responsibility.

Each side has extremely valid points.

 

[mugatu]

I actually think thie war could reach a point where this is needed. I think this situation has been handled incredibly poorly.

The timing of this and who it is from is just iidiotic. I hope @cowboyinexile is right and nothing comes of it but taking any chance is stupid.

Ahhh... so it's the 2nd one. Anything Biden says/does is wrong. Got it.

When do you think this move should have been taken? Ukraine has been pushing for it for a long time, Russia has been bombing civilians for 2 years. Ukraine is now in a position and mindset to take the fight to Russian soil and want to be able to attack Russian weapons depots etc.

 

[mugatu]

I think it boils down to the role you want the US to have on the world stage. Is it a privilege to be the only superpower both economically and militarily? Yes. But it’s also a huge burden and responsibility.

Each side has extremely valid points.

China is watching closely and already has a plan to be ready to challenge the US militarily in the coming years. If we balk here, they act sooner rather than later.

 

[Bowers3]

China is watching closely and already has a plan to be ready to challenge the US militarily in the coming years. If we balk here, they act sooner rather than later.

Well that’s where Donny and I may find some common ground on this. We have been balking it.

 

[Donnyboy]

Ahhh... so it's the 2nd one. Anything Biden says/does is wrong. Got it.

When do you think this move should have been taken? Ukraine has been pushing for it for a long time, Russia has been bombing civilians for 2 years. Ukraine is now in a position and mindset to take the fight to Russian soil and want to be able to attack Russian weapons depots etc.

No not at all the Biden stuff I hope every president we have is the best we ever have. He has not been. He is not capable of the job anymore…..don’t ask me ask his party, speaker of the house, and VP.

I don’t agree with you that escalating the war is the way to solve this sooner or reach any kind of agreement with Putin.

 

[Donnyboy]

Well that’s where Donny and I may find some common ground on this. We have been balking it.

 

[cowboyinexile]

I actually think thie war could reach a point where this is needed. I think this situation has been handled incredibly poorly.

The timing of this and who it is from is just iidiotic. I hope @cowboyinexile is right and nothing comes of it but taking any chance is stupid.

Actually the timing makes sense. I'm guessing they have been asking to fight the war more on their terms but we've been holding them back. I'm guessing you think Biden woke up this morning and was like screw it, let er rip, but the more likely scenario is our intelligence community somehow figured out Putin is counting the days until Trump gets in office and doesn't want to do anything stupid before then.

Based on your assertion that Biden is practically a vegetable, if it wasn't his decision then it was someone high up in the DOD who knows how to handle things. If you are incorrect and Biden is, well just an old guy who happens to still be the President, then he relied on intelligence from someone high up in the DOD and made a calculated decision. Either way it wasn't a spur of the moment call.

Now, if you want to go full conspiracy theory, it could be an attempt to get us sucked in more right before Trump gets into office just to screw with him and make him look bad if we stand down when Russia escalates but I don't believe that is likely. If that were the case we would have provoked them enough to escalate the conflict earlier in the year and the dems would have attempted to find a way to make Harris look like some sort of capable wartime leader. I say attempted because nothing else they tried in the run up to the election worked so I doubt this would have as well.

 

[Donnyboy]

Actually the timing makes sense. I'm guessing they have been asking to fight the war more on their terms but we've been holding them back. I'm guessing you think Biden woke up this morning and was like screw it, let er rip, but the more likely scenario is our intelligence community somehow figured out Putin is counting the days until Trump gets in office and doesn't want to do anything stupid before then.

Based on your assertion that Biden is practically a vegetable, if it wasn't his decision then it was someone high up in the DOD who knows how to handle things. If you are incorrect and Biden is, well just an old guy who happens to still be the President, then he relied on intelligence from someone high up in the DOD and made a calculated decision. Either way it wasn't a spur of the moment call.

Now, if you want to go full conspiracy theory, it could be an attempt to get us sucked in more right before Trump gets into office just to screw with him and make him look bad if we stand down when Russia escalates but I don't believe that is likely. If that were the case we would have provoked them enough to escalate the conflict earlier in the year and the dems would have attempted to find a way to make Harris look like some sort of capable wartime leader. I say attempted because nothing else they tried in the run up to the election worked so I doubt this would have as well.

Nothing about anything that’s happened should give you confidence someone at the DOD knows what they are doing. Two wars have broken out and we have done nothing but throw money at them. And if someone or some group is making these calls and not the pres then we should all be scared because we didn’t vote for them.

 

[PF5]

tRump will help pukin to escalate and do whatever the hell he wants...joe just trying to even things up a bit until that happens...