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Or....you know.... Manufacturing jobs get filled and the lower paying jobs struggle until they start paying. A people deficit is a good thing for the people.

Also, our 17-year-olds really need to consider Trade School and not college. Trade School kids that are going to out earn the 4 plus year college educated....in many cases they already are. I've spoke to several high school classes about this.
First you make a fair point about trade schools.

But let’s be honest about the lower paying jobs we all know we are talking about. There aren’t many “Mericans” who will do or last in those jobs. Won’t matter how much you pay.

What do you think happens to COGs when labor costs go up.

We’ve spent the last 3 yrs hearing about how life sucked bc everything cost more bc of Joe and now people are supporting or encouraging the very things that will make prices even higher.

Bottom line is that we have allowed immigration for the last 30+ yrs bc of cheap labor and the fact that the numbers tell you there isn’t enough supply (bodies) for the demand (jobs).
 
First you make a fair point about trade schools.

But let’s be honest about the lower paying jobs we all know we are talking about. There aren’t many “Mericans” who will do or last in those jobs. Won’t matter how much you pay.

What do you think happens to COGs when labor costs go up.

We’ve spent the last 3 yrs hearing about how life sucked bc everything cost more bc of Joe and now people are supporting or encouraging the very things that will make prices even higher.

Bottom line is that we have allowed immigration for the last 30+ yrs bc of cheap labor and the fact that the numbers tell you there isn’t enough supply (bodies) for the demand (jobs).
So, quick side point for the allowing immigration.
Immigration is the best way to offset a reduced birthrate. We (along with most advanced countries) are well below the birth rate to maintain a population. By the US allowing significant Immigration we have held off impacts that other countries are looking at when the population ages and you don't have a workforce to support retirees.

If we cut Immigration to a trickle for an extended period, we will end up seeing worsening issues with things we are already complaining and worried about. Even if all abortion and birth control ends immediately, it's 15-20 years before that has any impact on the workforce. The gap is only filled by adding working or near working age people. Look at countries that have low birthrate without significant immigration, they are staring down a rough future within 50 years as more and more of the population is wanting to retire.

I am not one to say the population worldwide needs to keep increasing (ala Musk) because that leads to overpopulation and resource issues. The total population needs to come down, but that doesn't mean we have to make the problem worse for ourselves.

 
Or....you know.... Manufacturing jobs get filled and the lower paying jobs struggle until they start paying. A people deficit is a good thing for the people.

Also, our 17-year-olds really need to consider Trade School and not college. Trade School kids that are going to out earn the 4 plus year college educated....in many cases they already are. I've spoke to several high school classes about this.
i agree with the second part, not the first.

We have to have a cultural change. Most Australian kids finish year 10. Then they go to TAFE (Think vo-tech, but kinda on steroids). Then they go out a make a decent living. Nobody looks down on it. If anything, a kid that finishes year 12 and gets a low score on the HSC are the ones looked at like they are nuts.
 
The talking heads and the Dems in Congress are being pro-China toward tariffs(it's anti-Trump, so they have to). Being pro-Ukraine isn't insane at all. IMO. It's being both that I'm talking about.
No they are not.

Being 100% against any tariffs….including those against China…is not being “pro-China”.

If it is “Rand Paul” is pro-China.
 
First you make a fair point about trade schools.

But let’s be honest about the lower paying jobs we all know we are talking about. There aren’t many “Mericans” who will do or last in those jobs. Won’t matter how much you pay.

What do you think happens to COGs when labor costs go up.

We’ve spent the last 3 yrs hearing about how life sucked bc everything cost more bc of Joe and now people are supporting or encouraging the very things that will make prices even higher.

Bottom line is that we have allowed immigration for the last 30+ yrs bc of cheap labor and the fact that the numbers tell you there isn’t enough supply (bodies) for the demand (jobs).

So I'm in the construction industry and agree that there are many trades that Americans tend to shy away from. Framing, Concrete, ext. Those jobs ARE hard....but I wouldn't consider them low pay. Concrete finishers make at or above the average Oklahoma Salary, and that's before overtime kicks in. We also kick in half the cost of Medical insurance, PTO, and other benefits for all hourly workers. I'm not saying thats a great deal for our guys but its not bad either considering most don't have a HS diploma. The thing about hourly construction guys is many will leave you for that extra dollar so you will never get good help for "Cheap". And thats the way it should be.

For the 2nd part, yes the more you pay people the more stuff costs. Considering many of the employed in this country are making the fringe of cost of living and never getting ahead we have an issue. Unfortunately, there is no way to fix this outside of creating better opportunities. You just can't inflate the value of a low value job and say problem solved (raising minimum wage). I'm fine buying a $9 cheeseburger so the guy making it can buy one also but the problems still not solved. We need opportunities where people can elevate. Our country has a void for those opportunities.

So, if asking me. We need to value all the employed we have. But the low unemployment rate is a poor reason to shy from creating good jobs.
 
i agree with the second part, not the first.

We have to have a cultural change. Most Australian kids finish year 10. Then they go to TAFE (Think vo-tech, but kinda on steroids). Then they go out a make a decent living. Nobody looks down on it. If anything, a kid that finishes year 12 and gets a low score on the HSC are the ones looked at like they are nuts.

We are seeing a culture change at the HS level. The cost of college is pushing that.
 
So I'm in the construction industry and agree that there are many trades that Americans tend to shy away from. Framing, Concrete, ext. Those jobs ARE hard....but I wouldn't consider them low pay. Concrete finishers make at or above the average Oklahoma Salary, and that's before overtime kicks in. We also kick in half the cost of Medical insurance, PTO, and other benefits for all hourly workers. I'm not saying thats a great deal for our guys but its not bad either considering most don't have a HS diploma. The thing about hourly construction guys is many will leave you for that extra dollar so you will never get good help for "Cheap". And thats the way it should be.

For the 2nd part, yes the more you pay people the more stuff costs. Considering many of the employed in this country are making the fringe of cost of living and never getting ahead we have an issue. Unfortunately, there is no way to fix this outside of creating better opportunities. You just can't inflate the value of a low value job and say problem solved (raising minimum wage). I'm fine buying a $9 cheeseburger so the guy making it can buy one also but the problems still not solved. We need opportunities where people can elevate. Our country has a void for those opportunities.

So, if asking me. We need to value all the employed we have. But the low unemployment rate is a poor reason to shy from creating good jobs.
I’m not saying to not create good jobs. I’m saying we are on the knife’s edge of supply/demand. Maybe AI/robotics solves some of that. This admin has proven in both its previous term and so far this one that they shoot first aim second. Without sound investment, immigration and trade policy they will certainly screw this up.
 
We are seeing a culture change at the HS level. The cost of college is pushing that.
Higher Ed in Oklahoma has multiple problems. We haven’t changed state funding since basically early 2000’s (slight increase for 2024) adjusted for today’s dollars. Because of slowing birth rates we have peaked in terms of number of high school graduates. The states surrounding Oklahoma are increasing their higher ed budgets at a way faster pace than we are. And I’ve seen where UTx and aTm systems are making tuition free to kids who qualify and come from homes w per capita incomes less than $100,000.

As a result of these factors and others, the fastest way to shore up shortfalls is to either raise tuition or increase enrollment. Shrum was leading OSU down the enrollment path and it was a short sighted fix bc we were going to damage retention rates which hurts rankings which makes it difficult to attract students and faculty at all levels.
 
So I'm in the construction industry and agree that there are many trades that Americans tend to shy away from. Framing, Concrete, ext. Those jobs ARE hard....but I wouldn't consider them low pay. Concrete finishers make at or above the average Oklahoma Salary, and that's before overtime kicks in.
Speaking of concrete work being hard, this post is WAY off topic so skip it if that is gonna piss you off. This was one of my favorite patients ever.

He comes in to the hormone clinic. He speaks zero English. He was sent there by his girlfriend, who is American and speaks zero Spanish. Basically, I guess they are F buddies. So, he is about 40 and she sent him because he couldn't get it up much of the time. He said he thinks it is because he works concrete and is too damn tired.

So, we check some labs and he's got metabolic syndrome-diabetes, high cholesterol, fatty liver and his blood pressure is through the roof. And, he is making about as much testosterone as a schoolgirl. He is a wirey guy but carrying a big beer belly.

I chat with him and he eats at the roach coach for lunch, drinks a 6 pack of coke at work, and a 12 pack of beer each night. He stays up playing video games.

So, I start him on testosterone and give him some Tadalafil to get rid of his immediate problem. But, I tell him he is killing himself and he has to stop eating crap and drinking crap. We go through what to do. To sleep at night, etc.

He comes back at a month for a recheck. Diabetes gone. Blood pressure normal. He's saying he feels a lot better.

He comes back at two months. I see his beer belly is disappearing. I jokingly stick my finger into his belly and it is rock solid. I'm like WTF. I lift his shirt and the MF has a six-pack.

He looks like a different dude. Happy as a clam. I tell him he keeps up eating right and doing his type of work and he won't need me for many years. Haven't seen him back.
 


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