Vaccines

[RxCowboy]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy. Basically, if something happens after an event then you assume that something happened because of that event. The interwebs is rife with post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy with respect to COVID-19 vaccine adverse effects. It's almost to the point of "I got the vaccine and my daughter had a miscarriage three months later and I know it's because of the vaccine."

 

[mugatu]

It didn't help that Joe Biden was saying before the election that he didn't trust the "Trump vaccine" and after the election he mandated it.

I was going to say I didn't remember those statements so I looked it up. Looks like the statements were more don't trust Trump and need transparency to the science.

Biden, Harris distrusted Trump, not COVID-19 vaccines

President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris have been pushing Americans to get inoculated against COVID-19. But

www.politifact.com

 

[Vakarian74]

I was going to say I didn't remember those statements so I looked it up. Looks like the statements were more don't trust Trump and need transparency to the science.

Biden, Harris distrusted Trump, not COVID-19 vaccines

President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris have been pushing Americans to get inoculated against COVID-19. But

www.politifact.com

What people that don’t like Biden would twist what he said. Never would have thought. /s

 

[RxCowboy]

I was going to say I didn't remember those statements so I looked it up. Looks like the statements were more don't trust Trump and need transparency to the science.

Biden, Harris distrusted Trump, not COVID-19 vaccines

President Joe Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris have been pushing Americans to get inoculated against COVID-19. But

www.politifact.com

From the site:

In campaign remarks on Sept. 7, 2020, Biden outlined steps he would take to address the pandemic, including masks and contact tracing, adding:

"Charting a clear path of science-based vaccines, free from politics. I get asked the question: ‘If the president announced tomorrow we have a vaccine, would you take it?’ Only if it was completely transparent, that other experts in the country could look at it, only if we knew all of what went into it. Because so far, nothing he’s told us has been true."

Now look at what I said, "It didn't help that Joe Biden was saying before the election that he didn't trust the "Trump vaccine" and after the election he mandated it." And consider the fact that the vaccine development didn't begin under Trump, but began in the early 2000s during SARS-Cov-1. He was doing everything he could to undermine the vaccine while Trump was still president because he was running against him.

 

[RxCowboy]

What people that don’t like Biden would twist what he said. Never would have thought. /s

It has nothing to do with liking Biden or not. Biden was playing politics. It created mistrust.

 

[Duke Silver]

It has nothing to do with liking Biden or not. Biden was playing politics. It created mistrust.

Denying the origin created distrust too

 

[mugatu]

From the site:

In campaign remarks on Sept. 7, 2020, Biden outlined steps he would take to address the pandemic, including masks and contact tracing, adding:

"Charting a clear path of science-based vaccines, free from politics. I get asked the question: ‘If the president announced tomorrow we have a vaccine, would you take it?’ Only if it was completely transparent, that other experts in the country could look at it, only if we knew all of what went into it. Because so far, nothing he’s told us has been true."

Now look at what I said, "It didn't help that Joe Biden was saying before the election that he didn't trust the "Trump vaccine" and after the election he mandated it." And consider the fact that the vaccine development didn't begin under Trump, but began in the early 2000s during SARS-Cov-1. He was doing everything he could to undermine the vaccine while Trump was still president because he was running against him.

Ok. That's one take. I take it as don't trust anything coming from the guy talking about injecting bleach unless it's been proven by scientists because Trump lies. I.e. listen to scientists not Trump.

 

[steross]

Ok. That's one take. I take it as don't trust anything coming from the guy talking about injecting bleach unless it's been proven by scientists because Trump lies. I.e. listen to scientists not Trump.

I can't really see a way that Trump could have been recommending a vaccine without scientific agreement. I would agree if Trump recommended that we take a vaccine that caused disease enhancement or something like that. As much as I dislike Trump, I just can't see that type of scenario happening.

Both sides play politics and I agree with Rx, Biden was playing politics. I do think some issues should be above politics, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. A united front with the politicians all saying that we will get a vaccine when it is safe to do so would have been better for the nation.

 

[RxCowboy]

Ok. That's one take. I take it as don't trust anything coming from the guy talking about injecting bleach unless it's been proven by scientists because Trump lies. I.e. listen to scientists not Trump.

Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?

This piece was originally published on PolitiFact.com on June 11, 2020 Joe Biden : On COVID-19, Donald Trump said...

www.statesman.com

Fact-check: Did Trump tell people to drink bleach to kill the coronavirus?​

Joe Biden: On COVID-19, Donald Trump said that “maybe if you drank bleach you may be okay.”

PolitiFact’s ruling: Mostly False.

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants. The maker of Lysol said in a statement that "under no circumstance" should its products be used in the human body.

The Biden campaign did not respond to a request for comment about what evidence the former vice president relied on when he claimed the president suggested Americans drink bleach to combat the virus.

 

[RxCowboy]

I can't really see a way that Trump could have been recommending a vaccine without scientific agreement. I would agree if Trump recommended that we take a vaccine that caused disease enhancement or something like that. As much as I dislike Trump, I just can't see that type of scenario happening.

Both sides play politics and I agree with Rx, Biden was playing politics. I do think some issues should be above politics, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. A united front with the politicians all saying that we will get a vaccine when it is safe to do so would have been better for the nation.

And that's my point. The vaccine was all the sudden safe enough to be mandated once the election was over.

 

[Vakarian74]

It has nothing to do with liking Biden or not. Biden was playing politics. It created mistrust.

Well it does because people that dislike him are much more likely to hear what they want to hear than what he actually said just like the Obama you didn’t build that BS that the right hammer on. And as the fact check sight said he wasn’t distrusting the vaccine but Trump so you did hear what you wanted.

 

[Duke Silver]

Well it does because people that dislike him are much more likely to hear what they want to hear than what he actually said just like the Obama you didn’t build that BS that the right hammer on. And as the fact check sight said he wasn’t distrusting the vaccine but Trump so you did hear what you wanted.

Fact check sites are nonsensical bs.

Another stupid that didn’t help was if you get the vaccine you won’t get covid

 

[mugatu]

Both sides play politics and I agree with Rx, Biden was playing politics. I do think some issues should be above politics, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. A united front with the politicians all saying that we will get a vaccine when it is safe to do so would have been better for the nanation.

Completely agree here. Anything public health and safety should be above politics. But I also fully disagree with the fact that politicians are allowed to knowingly lie about anything at any time. With speech that would normally be illegal being protected for them.

 

[RxCowboy]

Well it does because people that dislike him are much more likely to hear what they want to hear than what he actually said just like the Obama you didn’t build that BS that the right hammer on. And as the fact check sight said he wasn’t distrusting the vaccine but Trump so you did hear what you wanted.

"If the president announced we had a vaccine tomorrow" couldn't happen unless the scientific and regulatory bodies made it happen. There is no executive order that the president can sign apart from the scientific and regulatory apparatus to make a vaccine available. It simply is not possible. "... that other experts in the country could look at it" is the only way that a vaccine could happen, and Biden knew it when he said it. Biden was playing politics no matter how much you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore it. He was purposefully creating mistrust.

We have had for some time, well before covid, a growing number of people who have mistrusting childhood vaccinations. Politicizing the covid vaccines and purposefully creating mistrust did not help, but made that even worse. That is the legacy of the Trump-Biden years, and they are both to blame.

 

[mugatu]

Biden created mistrust prior to being elected (it wasn't available until after election), he stopped before it was available (side note: I'm not trying to defend anything he said. I just didn't remember it and didnt read into it as strongly as you did. Like i said, i read it as not trusting Trump vs not trusting the science. Politicians publicly sowing distrust in science is a huge issue for me). The lasting comments were made by press on the right that continued for years and I would say did WAY more damage.

Tucker Carlson: The COVID vaccine is dangerous for kids, Big Tech doesn't want you to know that

'Tucker Carlson Tonight' host discusses new research that shows the COVID vaccine is bad for kids, and questions why Big Tech censors the information.

www.foxnews.com

Florida surgeon general warns against COVID vaccine | Fox News Video

Dr. Joseph Ladapo tells Fox News Digital why he believes the new vaccine is a "terrible idea" and a "major safety concern"

www.foxnews.com

Fox News guest claims the COVID vaccine is killing “hundreds of thousands” and says it’s “the most dangerous vaccine ever created”

EDITOR’S NOTE: Experts emphatically disagree with claims that the vaccines have killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. You can read about those here. Clips published by Media Matters as opposed to other parts of the website where analysis and research are published are intended to be a...

www.mediamatters.org

 

[Duke Silver]

To be fair I think the Johnson and Johnson one was pulled due to blood clots.

I generally think they get mixed up

 

[Stillwaterman]

To be fair I think the Johnson and Johnson one was pulled due to blood clots.

I generally think they get mixed up

Thats the one I got. It made me gain 15 pounds. But I have literally gotten nothing since getting the shot. No fevers no nothing. Almost four years running.

 

[mugatu]

To be fair I think the Johnson and Johnson one was pulled due to blood clots.

I generally think they get mixed up

Yeah. It had the lowest efficacy and highest rate of significant side effect but don't remember what it's issue was specifically.