US continues to go forward

[Polds4OSU]

And they don’t receive any more benefits either. In fact, probable less benefits due to SS taxes.

So if you eliminate the $176k income level max for FICA are you also advocating eliminating the SS max benefit? If not, how do you justify not eliminating the maximum amount on SS benefit?

Elon Musk earned enough income that he hit the FICA cap in less than 15 min this year.

How about this...if you hit the FICA Cap in less than 60 days, you get a different set up FICA targets. I don't know what those targets should be or could be

But if your making so much you can hit the limit in less than 20 min for an entire year.... you should probably be paying a little more .

 

[JTOSU]

Ugh... as much as I keep trying to ignore you I'll bite.

Tell us then how do you propose shoring it up in a perfectly even and equitable way that doesnt impact any single person more than anyone else.

1) Raise retirement age. (~3 to 6 years)
2) Move a percentage of income taxes to FICA taxes (yes, that will require spending cuts)
3) Create a true SS trust fund (SS funds can now be used for certain other programs)
4) Adjust length of timing for eligibility of certain programs (for example, Medicare Part A) — would help with #3
5) And yes, most likely will still need to increase FICA maximum

 

[JTOSU]

Elon Musk earned enough income that he hit the FICA cap in less than 15 min this year.

How about this...if you hit the FICA Cap in less than 60 days, you get a different set up FICA targets. I don't know what those targets should be or could be

But if your making so much you can hit the limit in less than 20 min for an entire year.... you should probably be paying a little more .

Where are you reading that??

 

[Polds4OSU]

Where are you reading that??

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/15-minutes-2025-elon-musk-163131694.html

Would have been less than 1 Min if you considered ALL of his income. His TESLA INCOME ALONE had him hit the FICA cap in less than 15 min


Just 15 minutes into the year, his obligation was complete and he paid all his Social Security tax on his earnings from Tesla. If all of Musk's income were taxed, he could have paid his Social Security tax for the whole year in just about one minute. In contrast, 94% of Americans will continue contributing to Social Security from every paycheck throughout the year.

 

[JTOSU]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/15-minutes-2025-elon-musk-163131694.html

Would have been less than 1 Min if you considered ALL of his income. His TESLA INCOME ALONE had him hit the FICA cap in less than 15 min


Just 15 minutes into the year, his obligation was complete and he paid all his Social Security tax on his earnings from Tesla. If all of Musk's income were taxed, he could have paid his Social Security tax for the whole year in just about one minute. In contrast, 94% of Americans will continue contributing to Social Security from every paycheck throughout the year.

Everything I have seen about Musk is that he does not take a salary…hence I assumed he did not pay any FICA tax with Tesla. Who knows, but I did read something like this previously, “As Tesla CEO, Elon Musk does not take home a cash salary or bonus.” (Entrepreneur Magazine, June 2023).

Another reason was Sanders plan is a dud. Too many don’t understand how SS is funded and fall for the Sanders line about “by requiring Billionaires to pay their fair share into the program.” This would not effect Musk, Buffet, Cuban, or Gates at all.

 

[cowboyinexile]

Everything I have seen about Musk is that he does not take a salary…hence I assumed he did not pay any FICA tax with Tesla. Who knows, but I did read something like this previously, “As Tesla CEO, Elon Musk does not take home a cash salary or bonus.” (Entrepreneur Magazine, June 2023).

Another reason was Sanders plan is a dud.

So if the rich don't pay taxes, your problem is with a legal solution to make them pay more taxes they don't pay anyway and not that they don't pay taxes?

 

[Vakarian74]

We should have FICA come out of realized capital gains so that way corporate welfare queens like Musk can’t game the system by “not earning and income”.

 

[JTOSU]

If being in favor of a public policy that takes away money from the person advocating it is "being generous with other people's money" then that designation is pointless as there is not a single citizen that only favors the government spending only his own money. Even the most selfish of "libertarians" like yourself are not in favor of zero spending of other people's money.

It may seem like sound economics and, laughably, "fairness" to you. But for most of the people here, it simply shows your character and your extreme bias toward yourself and other like you

And, with that, I'm on a plane heading out for a much needed vacation. I know that the chance of you agreeing, or even considering a viewpoint not your own has merit, is lower than Trump naming Hillary Clinton as the head of a new diversity agency so I will say no more on this.

1) If you think it is morale to be generous with other people’s money and freedoms — yes we have a large difference in opinion
2) I am not being personally selfish. As I have stated before, I retired at the end of 2024. I have only two years of large FICA taxes left. Bernie’s proposal would not affect me now, but would have been a large negative in past years. I will draw on SS in ~12 to 15 years. I want SS to succeed. Not empty suit press releases that are dead on arrival.
3) Yes, my character and bias is to push for and respect individual freedoms.

 

[JTOSU]

We should have FICA come out of realized capital gains so that way corporate welfare queens like Musk can’t game the system by “not earning and income”.

“Game the system”?

Are you advocating that Musk should pay more in FICA and also advocating for eliminating the maximum SS payment….or are you saying just take much more of his money and keep his future SS payment low (ie pure wealth redistribution)?

 

[JTOSU]

So if the rich don't pay taxes, your problem is with a legal solution to make them pay more taxes they don't pay anyway and not that they don't pay taxes?

“Rich don’t pay taxes”?
I will take Statements that are Absolutely Not True, Alex.

 

[PF5]

Yes, my character and bias is to push for and respect individual freedoms.

 

[cowboyinexile]

“Rich don’t pay taxes”?
I will take Statements that are Absolutely Not True, Alex.

You said he didn't pay any FICA tax.

 

[JTOSU]

You said he didn't pay any FICA tax.

I was stating that Bernie’s solution does not necessarily make “billionaires pay their fair share into the program”. Billionaires like Musk, Gates, Buffet, and Cuban would not pay one more dime in most years.
Of course, for years not contributing to SS, they also reduce their own future benefit to SS.

 

[Vakarian74]

“Game the system”?

Are you advocating that Musk should pay more in FICA and also advocating for eliminating the maximum SS payment….or are you saying just take much more of his money and keep his future SS payment low (ie pure wealth redistribution)?

The gaming of the system is him taking capital gains instead of earned income. The reason he’s doing that is because he doesn’t wanna pay the 36% tax rate he’s not doing it because he’s altruistic. He’s doing it for the tax benefits. that is gaming the system he’s already screwing the system so I don’t care that he would have to pay more.

 

[JTOSU]

The gaming of the system is him taking capital gains instead of earned income. The reason he’s doing that is because he doesn’t wanna pay the 36% tax rate he’s not doing it because he’s altruistic. He’s doing it for the tax benefits. that is gaming the system he’s already screwing the system so I don’t care that he would have to pay more.

So he is following the tax code that has been in place for decades and :gaming the system”. Got it.

Or….maybe he FOUNDED the company and therefore has a lot of ownership (stock) in the company.

And yes people do things to avoid taxes. Tax avoidance is smart. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[JTOSU]

The gaming of the system is him taking capital gains instead of earned income. The reason he’s doing that is because he doesn’t wanna pay the 36% tax rate he’s not doing it because he’s altruistic. He’s doing it for the tax benefits. that is gaming the system he’s already screwing the system so I don’t care that he would have to pay more.

So now do you realize and understand that Bernie’s plan does next to nothing to make “billionaires pay their fair share”?? At least to the extent of whatever “fair share” socialist believe is “fair”.
Or are you going to continue to celebrate meaningless press releases?

 

[Pokey]

When considering protecting the wealthy from an increased tax burden please include the tremendous subsidies paid for from public monies. Walmart came into Midwest City years ago. The city paid for tons of infrastructure that benefited Walmart directly, with a promise of not paying taxes for ten years. At 9 they started building a new Walmart within a few miles. They moved their operations to the new one and MWC never got a dime out of Walmart. It sat vacant for years and now is an enormous storage unit. Several years later Walmart returns and builds a Walmart Express in the old parking lot. The rich screw the rest of us all the time. How about Bass Pro. How about the new Thunder arena. How about the new soccer stadium? Who pays for the infrastructure? We do! Every single time…..

 

[JTOSU]

When considering protecting the wealthy from an increased tax burden please include the tremendous subsidies paid for from public monies. Walmart came into Midwest City years ago. The city paid for tons of infrastructure that benefited Walmart directly, with a promise of not paying taxes for ten years. At 9 they started started building a new Walmart within a few miles. They moved their operations to the new one and MWC never got a dime out of Walmart. It sat vacant for years and now is an enormous storage unit. Several years later Walmart returns and builds a Walmart Express in the old parking lot. The rich screw the rest of us all the time. How about Bass Pro. How about the new Thunder arena. How about the new soccer stadium? Who pays for the infrastructure? We do! Every single time…..

Now you are talking. Eliminate (or greatly curtail) corporate cronyism and welfare…agreed. That’s protecting taxpayers.

 

[mugatu]

So he is following the tax code that has been in place for decades and :gaming the system”. Got it.

That's an option not available to everyone. It's a way for the government to reduce tax load on certain types of income that are available for only certain classes of the population. It was started as you said decades ago so the CEOs could save money on income, not to help anyone else.

You're so big on it being equal, how is that equal? It's not. It's the trickle down economics that Reagan put in play and that got accentuated later on.

I find it convenient that someone who was well off enough to retire a decade early is so against certain people paying more in taxes... like maybe their opinion isn't based in fairness and altruism like they claim but based on their own self interests over the years.

I also found it interesting that the first suggestion you had to fix SS was to delay retirement age. I'm sure a bunch of people working manual labor want to work until they are 70 (or they have to medically retire). I asked for options that don't impact one group more than the other. Your first option doesn't impact your life much at all but keeps other working later into life - and also prevents jobs from opening up for younger workers.

 

[mugatu]

So now do you realize and understand that Bernie’s plan does next to nothing to make “billionaires pay their fair share”?? At least to the extent of whatever “fair share” socialist believe is “fair”.
Or are you going to continue to celebrate meaningless press releases?

Tax all income types equally based on value at time of award.