That may not be what he meant. That’s why I asked. I don’t want to assume what he meant.
Ukraine. Ukraine. Ukraine.
- Thread starter Llcoolw
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mugatu
Ranger
Good. I see enough pro-Russia stuff around that I was afraid we'd gone all the way back to deciding we were on the wrong side of the cold war. Glad that's not the case.
Lets get back on topic here: Ukraine. There is a thread for economics, which is where these posts will be moved.
Sorry. Not around enough for a proper exchange. That last message was in response to @Bowers3 and the response left for me. My reply lost all the pre conversation to that point.
FML, still haven't done my taxes.
Fun fact here - a HUGE fraction of what we've shipped them that you hear big $s about is ancient crap that we would otherwise be getting ready to pay someone to dismantle. The $ value is replacement cost, but we're not replacing it directly, we're replacing it with something new that we were going to buy anyway. The accounting is stupid.
There are obvious exceptions, but when we're shipping them stuff we built when I was in Jr. High, that's actually good for everyone. We should ship them every 30 year old block I ATACMS we have have, for instance. Budget impact should be recorded as "saves us millions in dismantling cost" instead of costs us $400M or whatever.
(I know it's somewhat more complicated than this because we create programs to upgrade ancient things and if the ancient things go away we actually have to build new instead of upgrading, but those upgrade programs are largely bullshit and are designed to pull money from different budget lines and not have the visibility of new procurements and often they're more expensive than just buying new. We haven't built new Abrams tanks in decades, we just upgrade the ancient ones we have parked and mothballed, but I've seen the upgrade process and it's hard to believe building new wouldn't be cheaper. /rant)
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I posed this question back in the orange power days.
What’s the goal here?
Right after Afghanistan I thought it a good question.
Not only was it fantasy to go after Crimea but now significantly more territory is being lost at a rate that only war followers are privy to. Corporate media is slowly letting it go. F16s. F15s. At this point, will it make a difference?
Seems the original idea of a war of attrition was always the goal. As the average age of the Ukrainian soldier ebbs on 43, gotta wonder if any of it was worth it.
What’s the goal here?
Right after Afghanistan I thought it a good question.
Not only was it fantasy to go after Crimea but now significantly more territory is being lost at a rate that only war followers are privy to. Corporate media is slowly letting it go. F16s. F15s. At this point, will it make a difference?
Seems the original idea of a war of attrition was always the goal. As the average age of the Ukrainian soldier ebbs on 43, gotta wonder if any of it was worth it.
mugatu
Ranger
Are you asking from why are we supporting or why is Ukraine fighting back?
1. Punish any country blatantly invading another without provocation. Especially when that country is not friendly. They are losing more land because they don't have the ammunition they need.
2. Would you give up fighting if our country was invaded, kids were getting shipped off to the invaders country and other widespread war crimes were being committed daily?
What do you think should be done by US or Ukraine instead?
Putin-Loving Texas Man Abducted in Eastern Ukraine—Allegedly by Russian Troops
Link
Link
Putin-Loving Texas Man Abducted in Eastern Ukraine—by Russian Troops
Russell Bentley’s wife says he was snatched by Russian soldiers, and now his friends are trying to debunk rumors of his “suspicious” activities.
www.thedailybeast.com
This is Factually incorrect
MAGA Congresswoman Pushes Back, “Ukraine Chose Not To Join NATO”
Link
2paragraphs.com
MAGA Congresswoman Pushes Back, “Ukraine Chose Not To Join NATO”
Link
MAGA Congresswoman Pushes Back, “Ukraine Chose Not To Join NATO”
U.S. Representative Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL) is one of the far-right House Republicans who oppose to sending more foreign assistance to Ukraine as it fights a Russian invasion. Luna explained her sta
2paragraphs.com
I actually had this answered. More than once because I thought I posted my answers.
Instead of trying to decide how far back In time should we go, or who’s recollections are more accurate. I watched this documentary.
Netflix, Turning Point- The Bomb and the New Cold War.
Hard to debate the timeline of how we got here. Including in the first episode, Ukraine.
My answer is the same as it was before they crossed the border.
Promise them peace.
Only problem is, until now that is, no one seemed too interested. Putin told his media exactly what he was going to do. And still is.
Wondering still to this day why western media never shows his messages to us. The civilians. He told us step by step what was going to happen. And it has. We should be listening to what comes next with the new new world order.
With African colonies now almost all lost to Russia and China, the French foreign legion is now on the ground in Ukraine. The Americans have also been routed. Russians occupying our bases the very same day we were told to get out.
So, with more and more dynamics by the day, our friends in the ME, 2 superpowers turning on us, it may be past the time to walk this back.
I’d still sue for peace. Americans are the last people on the planet prepared for a larger war.
Stillwater Townie
Ranger
Putin knew he had to invade Ukraine before it could join NATO. Surely any peace settlement will have to include that Ukraine will never join NATO. How realistic that is, I don't know.
Republicans may disagree since it will make Biden look good, but it would be nice if the wars could be settled by early this fall.
One big reason wars need to get settled before they turn worse is because China has the market well covered on a number of things the U. S. military needs, such as rare earth magnets. Maybe the reason why the rare earth magnet factory has not opened in Stillwater as planned is because China owns the market for it with its low prices.
Republicans may disagree since it will make Biden look good, but it would be nice if the wars could be settled by early this fall.
One big reason wars need to get settled before they turn worse is because China has the market well covered on a number of things the U. S. military needs, such as rare earth magnets. Maybe the reason why the rare earth magnet factory has not opened in Stillwater as planned is because China owns the market for it with its low prices.
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mugatu
Ranger
What does that mean? Who is promising who peace? Russia does not and will not live up to international agreements. They never have.
You'd sue as Americans or other? It's not our place to try to push Ukraine into giving up its people and territory after an unprovoked invasion.
We have failed at getting the country united behind this cause. Largely because almost half of our country is listening to Russian propaganda and making opinions based on that. Instead of uniting to support a country in need being attacked by a country hostile to our own, people are listening to the hostile country. Ask anyone that deals in national defense on either side of the aisle and they will agree that we need to support Ukraine as much as possible.
One downside of our political situation is that it doesn't lend itself to longer term dedication and planning to important causes (not the word I want but I'm having trouble finding the right one).
About half of the North Korean missiles Russia fired at Ukraine flew off course and exploded in the air, official says
The failure rate of the North Korean ballistic missiles Russia is firing at Ukraine appears to be quite high, Ukraine's top prosecutor told Reuters.
www.businessinsider.com
Pretty. Stupid.This is Factually incorrect
MAGA Congresswoman Pushes Back, “Ukraine Chose Not To Join NATO”
Link
MAGA Congresswoman Pushes Back, “Ukraine Chose Not To Join NATO”
U.S. Representative Anna Paulina Luna (R-FL) is one of the far-right House Republicans who oppose to sending more foreign assistance to Ukraine as it fights a Russian invasion. Luna explained her sta
UrbanCowboy
New member
Who is promising Russia peace and from whom is it be promised? Can you clarify what you mean by this?
I'm legit curious what you mean here. Let's pretend @Llcoolw is the president of the US: what do you propose we do?
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