Trump 47

[JTOSU]

You know how yesterday you were saying you don't support unconstitutional actions and have never said you did. Now you are sure sounding like you do. You are supporting a position of people under court protection from deportation shouldn't be protected from said deportations to include into a foreign prison without any criminal convictions.

I get and appreciate this forum is half-duplex communication and sometimes items can be misinterpreted even with good intentions. But I don’t see how you can interpret any of my comments as “supporting a position of people under protection from deportation shouldn’t be protected from said deportation”. I never said nor implied that.

 

[CowboyJD]

Spin spin spin. They didn't lose their right, they went out of their way to avoid it. You're just being intentionally obtuse now.

Went out of their way to avoid it.....by entering illegally....so they didn't "lose" their right to due process in deportation proceedings even when they're asking for it. They...what? Voluntarily gave it up when they entered illegally?

You're the one being intentionally obtuse with that kind of argument.

Criminals get due process. Its what separates us from the middle ages and barbarism.

People entering the country illegally get it too once they are here. That's what the Constitution clearly and directly says. "No person" shall be deprived of liberty without due process of law. If they weren't given it (which you have clearly admitted) when they asked for it....they lost it.

 

[Polds4OSU]

seems the Christian Left Theologist are starting to speak their minds and opinions​

​

Friends and Family who are Trump supporters 'must be ostracized' until they come to their senses and can be forgiven in order for America to survive: ex-megachurch pastor​

Former megachurch pastor John Pavlovitz who was fired after penning letters of Support for Hiliary Clinton over Trump in 2016 has written a new piece on his Substack page that takes a distinctly Old Testament attitude toward supporters of President Donald Trump.

In his piece, Pavlovitz makes the case that Trump supporters "must be ostracized" going forward due to their complicity in what he sees as the president's ruinous second-term policies.


"The people we love, live alongside; those we work and study shoulder to shoulder with; those we have invited into our hearts and homes. They are as responsible for all of this as he is, as those in his Cabinet are," he writes.

Pavlovitz argues that Trump supporters have had all sorts of chances to correct course over the years despite seeing the president's cruelty and his authoritarian aspirations up close.

"They shunned their responsibility as Americans, they rejected the teachings of their faith tradition, and they abandoned any kind of moral footing by enabling the ascension of a felon-rapist-scumbag mobster who lacks a single noble impulse," he contends. "Through whatever combination of racism, misogyny, prejudice, intellectual ignorance, and plain old hatred, they willfully coronated him."


He then goes on to advise his followers to simply cut any Trump-supporting friends or relatives out of their lives.

"If we truly believe in bending the arc of the moral universe toward justice at this place and time, his supporters need to become pariahs," he writes. "They should not be welcome where good people gather. They need to be held accountable for unleashing this hell on the rest of us."

Pavlovitz does make an exception for Trump supporters who have "come to their senses" and he advises treating them with a spirit of forgiveness and charity.

"But as far as his cheerleaders, champions, kindred spirits, sycophants, and disciples—they are proving themselves unreachable with reason, impervious to compassion, and mortally allergic to anything that reasonable human beings value," he adds.

 

[Polds4OSU]

Went out of their way to avoid it.....by entering illegally....so they didn't "lose" their right to due process in deportation proceedings even when they're asking for it. They...what? Voluntarily gave it up when they entered illegally?

You're the one being intentionally obtuse with that kind of argument.



People entering the country illegally get it too once they are here. That's what the Constitution clearly and directly says. "No person" shall be deprived of liberty without due process of law. If they weren't given it (which you have clearly admitted) when they asked for it....they lost it.

they don't understand the part where the Constitution says IF YOU ARE HERE AND ON AMERICAN SOIL you get Due Process Regardless of how you got here, who you are, etc etc etc. Your Physical presence inside the US border gives you a Constitutionally protected right to Due Process...even if you aren't a citizen.

 

[milehighpoke]

I let you answer that. I don’t think that is going to happen. Yes I heard the comment from Trump, but again he says a lot of dumb stuff.

We unfortunately still have many US citizens being held by other countries.
But we should never allow US citizens to be sent to a foreign jail.

The fact that you shrug this off as "trump says a lot of dumb stuff" tells me everything I need to know. Or that I already knew.

We have a president who is talking about sending AMERICANS to foreign jails. We've fallen so far that a large swath of people either agree with it or don't care because "he says dumb stuff a lot".

If I see one more person say they care about the constitution, but aren't actively working to get trump out of office, I'm going to lose it (more than I already have).

This country is absolutely cooked.

 

[mugatu]

I get and appreciate this forum is half-duplex communication and sometimes items can be misinterpreted even with good intentions. But I don’t see how you can interpret any of my comments as “supporting a position of people under protection from deportation shouldn’t be protected from said deportation”. I never said nor implied that.

I think @Rob B. point was an illegal immigrant sidesteps his due process by not immigrating through proper channels.

Starting here and followed by the repeated defense of Rob who has over and over stated that they shouldn't get any court protection because they came in illegally. Which is counter to the Constitutional protections afforded to ALL people on US soil.

Sure seems like an implication that you support hos position. Is that not the case?

What IS your position on immigrants who are in contact with court and CBP and awaiting court dates, with judges ruling they should not be deported while having a pending claim being sent to El Salvador or held indefinitely by ICE? Please state clearly.

Now what is your position on those not in contact with courts being arrested and sent to jail without going through court proceedings. Again please stare clearly so we all understand and can stop lumping you in with Rob.

My position. Immediate deportation to me is fine for someone who is here illegally and not in contact with immigration/court for asylum claim or not being at their court proceedings. Deportation to jail is not. You are depriving liberty of a person without a conviction. If they go to jail, they have to go through court. Deportation of someone who is registered with CBP and court and pending a court date is not OK, especially when that person has had a judge rule they should not be deported.

 

[JTOSU]

If you have relatives that are first generation immigrants, they should have concerns.

I think the point of what he was saying is we have a bunch of people who went through the proper channels that are easy to track down. By attempting to do things the right way they created a paper trail. Those that just sneak in and keep their head down are more difficult to find.

No my dad does not have any concerns…but I will tell him…that will give him a laugh.
But you are correct he and my other family members did do things the right way.

 

[JTOSU]

Starting here and followed by the repeated defense of Rob who has over and over stated that they shouldn't get any court protection because they came in illegally. Which is counter to the Constitutional protections afforded to ALL people on US soil.

Sure seems like an implication that you support hos position. Is that not the case?

What IS your position on immigrants who are in contact with court and CBP and awaiting court dates, with judges ruling they should not be deported while having a pending claim being sent to El Salvador or held indefinitely by ICE? Please state clearly.

Now what is your position on those not in contact with courts being arrested and sent to jail without going through court proceedings. Again please stare clearly so we all understand and can stop lumping you in with Rob.

My position. Immediate deportation to me is fine for someone who is here illegally and not in contact with immigration/court for asylum claim or not being at their court proceedings. Deportation to jail is not. You are depriving liberty of a person without a conviction. If they go to jail, they have to go through court. Deportation of someone who is registered with CBP and court and pending a court date is not OK, especially when that person has had a judge rule they should not be deported.

I would much rather you lump me in with Rob than others that struggle with comprehension —- so I am fine with that.

If I was a Senator from Maryland I sure as hell would care much more about a citizen in my state being hunted, raped, and murdered by an El Salvador illegal immigrant while jogging in a park than an illegal immigrant with a credible complaint of wife-beating. Your response/reaction to my previous statement implied you want to be lumped in with him. You have never posted about the killing of the Maryland woman, I assume the implication is you don’t care. I guess our values are vastly different.

Did I play that game correctly?


—- To answer your question: No, Garcia should not have been deported with his current status. That is wrong. But not sure why you would even ask that, the administration clearly admitted that was an error. That he was sent incorrectly is not in dispute. The question should be: what channels/authority does US have to remove a citizen of El Salvador from El Salvador.

 

[Polds4OSU]

 

[cowboyinexile]

View attachment 11033

Who is this?

 

[mugatu]

I would much rather you lump me in with Rob than others that struggle with comprehension —- so I am fine with that.

Then don't b!tch about it next time it happens and claim you are different

 

[Polds4OSU]

Who is this?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1913002273472405959

Now welcome the 20-somethings to OSD. Two young men announced recently that they’re taking posts at the Office of the Secretary of Defense: 23-year-old Royce Chamberlin and 2024 Clemson graduate Amjed Yacu, who spent the remainder of the year interning at the House and Senate.

Neither has any known military experience, and one seems to have inadvertently flubbed his opening announcement. “I am excited and honored to announce I have been appointed to the Office of the Secretary of Defense at the DoD,” Royce—who is the son of Florida state Rep. Ryan Chamberlin—wrote on social media Thursday. He added that he’d be “Helping ensure our country is viewed as a force not to be reckoned with.”

It’s unclear what either will be doing at OSD. But Yacu said Thursday evening in his announcement, “It is a privilege to join Secretary Hegseth's fight to restore faith and transparency within the Department of Defense.” Congratulations, gentlemen; and good luck in your new roles.

 

[mugatu]

—- To answer your question: No, Garcia should not have been deported with his current status. That is wrong. But not sure why you would even ask that...

You were supporting/defending Rob, who's position has continuously appeared to be that this man and everyone else there should rot in jail and is where they should be.

The question should be: what channels/authority does US have to remove a citizen of El Salvador from El Salvador

Obviously the courts think the administration has the ability to do more than nothing. So the answer is start with just formally asking for his release and return.

 

[JTOSU]

Then don't b!tch about it next time it happens and claim you are different

You did it again.

I am giving you my personal thoughts. At least you admitted your mistake previously, but now you continue to do it. I have to assume you are doing this purposefully.

 

[CowboyJD]

Who is this?

​

royce.chamberlin​

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I think the point of the post was the "make our country a force NOT to be reckoned with" when it should be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[JTOSU]

You were supporting/defending Rob, whose position has continuously appeared to be that this man and everyone else there should rot in jail and is where they should be.


Obviously the courts think the administration has the ability to do more than nothing. So the answer is start with just formally asking for his release and return.

1) Just because someone agrees or defends an individual point that someone makes does not mean they agree with everything they say. I would hope that goes without saying, but I guess not. Don’t become a lazy zzz’s bro who because they don’t have the ability to explain themself chooses instead to make-up stuff to argue against what someone never said.
2) What power does a US court have to remove a citizen from a particular country from that country? Explain yourself.

 

[mugatu]

You did it again.

I am giving you my personal thoughts. At least you admitted your mistake previously, but now you continue to do it. I have to assume you are doing this purposefully.

You said that was how you'd prefer to be associated. I was just saying then maybe don't complain about it.

1) Just because someone agrees or defends an individual point that someone makes does not mean they agree with everything they say. I would hope that goes without saying, but I guess not. Don’t become a lazy zzz’s bro who because they don’t have the ability to explain themself chooses instead to make-up stuff to argue against what someone never said.

So what individual point did you want to defend?

2) What power does a US court have to remove a citizen from a particular country from that country? Explain yourself.

I dont know, but something should be done, and having shown they haven’t even gone to step one if asking formally is telling.

So based on your posts here, it sounds like your position is the government should just do nothing to even try to correct an error it's admitted to and allow this man to sit in jail and his family to be without the father.

For the rest of the guys sent off, what legal basis do we have to pay a country to hold prisoners that are citizens of other countries?

 

[cowboyinexile]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1913002273472405959

Now welcome the 20-somethings to OSD. Two young men announced recently that they’re taking posts at the Office of the Secretary of Defense: 23-year-old Royce Chamberlin and 2024 Clemson graduate Amjed Yacu, who spent the remainder of the year interning at the House and Senate.

Neither has any known military experience, and one seems to have inadvertently flubbed his opening announcement. “I am excited and honored to announce I have been appointed to the Office of the Secretary of Defense at the DoD,” Royce—who is the son of Florida state Rep. Ryan Chamberlin—wrote on social media Thursday. He added that he’d be “Helping ensure our country is viewed as a force not to be reckoned with.”

It’s unclear what either will be doing at OSD. But Yacu said Thursday evening in his announcement, “It is a privilege to join Secretary Hegseth's fight to restore faith and transparency within the Department of Defense.” Congratulations, gentlemen; and good luck in your new roles.

So grossly unqualified but I'm guessing ideologically in line with the administration?

I guess I'm not following what you are getting at.

 

[CowboyJD]

they don't understand the part where the Constitution says IF YOU ARE HERE AND ON AMERICAN SOIL you get Due Process Regardless of how you got here, who you are, etc etc etc. Your Physical presence inside the US border gives you a Constitutionally protected right to Due Process...even if you aren't a citizen.

I think they understand that part.

I think they just don't like it, so they do mental gymnastics to justify why they're okay with certain people not getting it.

 

[JTOSU]

You said that was how you'd prefer to be associated. I was just saying then maybe don't complain about it.

Yes, I do prefer to be associated with sane posters that engage with positive intent rather than intellectually dishonest posters. But you CONTINUALLY make-up stuff. I’ve never complained about it because I wouldn’t care.

I have just pointed out how you state I say or imply something that I never have. That seems to be the MO by some on this board — just lazy, weak, and pointless. If you want to be lumped in with them so be it, I guess.