Trump 47

[mugatu]

And again, that has done nothing for anyone except cost millions of lives, and churn out money for defense contractors AND lost Ukraine territory.

And help Ukraine survive for 3 years against a much larger better armed country. I guess them continuing to survive and fight back isn't anything? Interesting. I think its a big thing helping them have a exist and be able to fight to continue to exist.

 

[mugatu]

We’ll see what happens in the future.” Zelenskyy was absolutely right to not trust that crap and to walk out. Trump tried to get something for NOTHING using Putin as leverage. That’s not negotiating a peace. That’s colluding with Putin and dividing the spoils. Trying to blame that conduct on the prior administration is laughable.

Pretty sure there is a term for using force and fear of force to make someone give you something they wouldn't otherwise where they get nothing on return except the possibility of not having that threat acted on... and generally isn't that illegal.

 

[mugatu]

France and EU move to secure Ukraine minerals, as US pushes for deal

France and the European Union are mobilising to secure access to Ukraine’s valuable mineral resources, despite pressure from Washington, which is pushing for mineral deals with Kyiv as a form of repayment…

www.rfi.fr

Looks like France and EU are moving to take the minerals deal we are being a-holes about

 

[CowboyJD]

Pretty sure there is a term for using force and fear of force to make someone give you something they wouldn't otherwise where they get nothing on return except the possibility of not having that threat acted on... and generally isn't that illegal.

This week Trump absolutely attempted to use Putin to extort resources from Ukraine.

It’s nothing more than an old school mafia protection racket.

 

[cowboyinexile]

France and EU move to secure Ukraine minerals, as US pushes for deal

France and the European Union are mobilising to secure access to Ukraine’s valuable mineral resources, despite pressure from Washington, which is pushing for mineral deals with Kyiv as a form of repayment…

www.rfi.fr

Looks like France and EU are moving to take the minerals deal we are being a-holes about

I guess Trump's handlers forgot that there are more than 3 countries capable of handling regional security and trade.

 

[Rob B.]

So let’s rollover, grab Ukrainian heavy metal spoils, and hope Putin will stop where he has out of the goodness of his heart?

(Note the question mark. I’m not claiming that is what you’re saying. I’m asking what you actually are saying. You’ve already said you’re not arguing that Trump is handling this well. I’m asking what handling it well looks like to you.))

I thought I explained how handling it well should have looked, followed by I'm at a loss what to do now.
I believe/hope that the heavy metal mining presence would back Putin off without having to push any buttons, but again, NATO et al will need to step up.

 

[Rob B.]

And help Ukraine survive for 3 years against a much larger better armed country. I guess them continuing to survive and fight back isn't anything? Interesting. I think its a big thing helping them have a exist and be able to fight to continue to exist.

I explained what I thought SHOULD have been done.
6 years, not 3.

 

[CowboyJD]

I thought I explained how handling it well should have looked, followed by I'm at a loss what to do now.
I believe/hope that the heavy metal mining presence would back Putin off without having to push any buttons, but again, NATO et al will need to step up.

Respectfully, I don’t believe you did.

Are you saying that you hoped that Trump getting the mineral rights WITHOUT security guarantees to Zelenskyy….without a red-line to Putin ( what you call pushing buttons)….would have been handling it well?

Because if that is what you’re saying, that’s equivalent to saying Trump IS handling it well and in the best way possible and everyone else (Biden, EU, Zelenskyy, libs, etc) is to blame for the failure.

I also think that is incredibly naive and exceedingly wrong.

So I will again ask…respectfully…what do you think that Trump should have done or not done differently than what he did do in order to have done “well”.

 

[Big8+4-2-2+2-2+4+4]

I explained what I thought SHOULD have been done.
6 years, not 3.

Try 11, not 6

 

[Big8+4-2-2+2-2+4+4]

And again, that has done nothing for anyone except cost millions of lives, and churn out money for defense contractors AND lost Ukraine territory.

The whole point of Russia’s aggression is conquering Ukrainian territory. They’ve been salami slicing their sovereignty for almost 11 years now. Russia doesn’t believe in Ukraine’s right to exist. That’s the whole point of this war. The only way it stops is security guarantees. Do you believe in the right of self determination of the Ukrainian people? Ukraine has looked west since the orange revolution due to how Ukraine has been treated by Russia for the last 100 years. Can you blame them? Of all the governments we’ve backed post world war 2, this is probably the most just cause. At some point peace will need to be made, but Trump has made this a geopolitical disaster. There is a definite right and wrong in this situation and Trump is siding with the path that hurts America in the long run. If Russia succeeds with all of their goals they will be more emboldened to mess with the Baltic states and Poland. This will make it easier for China to invade Taiwan. MAGAs don’t realize WW3 could happen because Russia is able to fully succeed in the Ukraine invasion. America is getting 2 weak presidents at precarious time.

 

[mugatu]

I explained what I thought SHOULD have been done.
6 years, not 3.

I simply take offense at the repeated claims that all of the support has done nothing (you've made the claim Donny makes it every post on the subject) It has accomplished years of active defense against Russian invasion, not 100% successful, but much more so that if support was not provided.

Claiming it's done nothing is a very America centric view and attempts to negate abd belittle all of their work and success to still exist, like it doesn't matter

 

[Rob B.]

I simply take offense at the repeated claims that all of the support has done nothing (you've made the claim Donny makes it every post on the subject) It has accomplished years of active defense against Russian invasion, not 100% successful, but much more so that if support was not provided.

Claiming it's done nothing is a very America centric view and attempts to negate abd belittle all of their work and success to still exist, like it doesn't matter

Well color me shocked that you are offended.
I said it hasn't worked. Go ask all the dead Ukrainians how much the billions have helped them.
I take offense that you think it's working in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Rob B.]

Respectfully, I don’t believe you did.

Are you saying that you hoped that Trump getting the mineral rights WITHOUT security guarantees to Zelenskyy….without a red-line to Putin ( what you call pushing buttons)….would have been handling it well?

Because if that is what you’re saying, that’s equivalent to saying Trump IS handling it well and in the best way possible and everyone else (Biden, EU, Zelenskyy, libs, etc) is to blame for the failure.

I also think that is incredibly naive and exceedingly wrong.

So I will again ask…respectfully…what do you think that Trump should have done or not done differently than what he did do in order to have done “well”.

I clearly stated that it should have been handled before Trump was elected. Biden, EU, NATO should have stepped in and driven him from Ukraine when he invaded.
That in no way implies that Trump is handling it well now.

 

[CowboyJD]

I clearly stated that it should have been handled before Trump was elected. Biden, EU, NATO should have stepped in and driven him from Ukraine when he invaded.
That in no way implies that Trump is handling it well now.

So you’re putting all the blame on every and anybody but Trump. He’s not responsible for his own behavior because this should have already been solved.

Checks out.

It’s Trump’s problem now. He said he’d have it fixed before he actually took the oath of office. He hasn’t. In fact, he’s exacerbated the problem.

He’s doing nothing more than being an extortionate surrender monkey Russian asset.

 

[mugatu]

Well color me shocked that you are offended.
I said it hasn't worked. Go ask all the dead Ukrainians how much the billions have helped them.
I take offense that you think it's working in any way, shape, or form.

Ok. I guarantee that EVERY one of them would rather have the current condition that no aid.

 

[Rob B.]

Ok. I guarantee that EVERY one of them would rather have the current condition that no aid.

Take things to extremes much? Please show me where I said there should be no aid.

 

[mugatu]

Take things to extremes much? Please show me where I said there should be no aid.

Sorry is that not what you meant by asking all the dead Ukrainians how much the aid has helped? By saying that the aid has been worthless, you are implying there should be no aid.

You've been talking just like Donny on here, constantly claiming the aid has been worthless. You're ignoring the fact that without it, Ukraine wouldn't have lasted, without it Ukraine wouldn't exist.

 

[Rob B.]

Sorry is that not what you meant by asking all the dead Ukrainians how much the aid has helped? By saying that the aid has been worthless, you are implying there should be no aid.

You've been talking just like Donny on here, constantly claiming the aid has been worthless. You're ignoring the fact that without it, Ukraine wouldn't have lasted, without it Ukraine wouldn't exist.

Once again, show me where I said it was worthless.
I said the aid, as it has been given, isn't working.
You're arguing with a phantom in your own brain so you can be outraged...

 

[Rob B.]

So you’re putting all the blame on every and anybody but Trump. He’s not responsible for his own behavior because this should have already been solved.

Checks out.

It’s Trump’s problem now. He said he’d have it fixed before he actually took the oath of office. He hasn’t. In fact, he’s exacerbated the problem.

He’s doing nothing more than being an extortionate surrender monkey Russian asset.

Now you're just taking it to mugatu extremes.

Let's see if this soothes you.

It's all Trump's fault that Russia invaded Ukraine. He did absolutely nothing to stop it and wants them there. He's begging for WWIII and we're all idiots for not seeing that.

 

[PF5]

trolling is fun... @Rob B. ...I enjoy how you must belittle others opinions and backtrack on your statements...