I am part of a community that fought in the Civil War to free themselves as members of the Union Army, and we praise that effort, and we talk about that effort. And some of those soldiers went West and fought wars against the Indigenous people of this country. They became victimizers. I'm part of a community that, in an effort to free itself and liberate itself from white racism in this country, bought into the dream of Liberia, which meant going over to Africa and subjecting Africans to Western civilization ... and "Christianizing" them and "civilizing" them. That is victims becoming victimizers.
What is uncomfortable is for us to see that the victimization and oppression, even at its highest point, may not necessarily be ennobling. ... In the most cliché terms — I'm sorry to use this — but to be a hurt person who hurts people [is] certainly possible. And that's a dark thought ... because I think we want to believe that having that oppression is some sort of card, you know, a moral high ground that is automatically conferred. But the fact of the matter is that sometimes that's true. Sometimes it's not. And I think as much as I saw the connection between Black people and Palestinians when I was over there, it was not so hard for me to see myself in the Israelis.