Middle East

[Rob B.]

It is. And I realize @Rob B. thinks he is bringing balance to this den of Leftist propaganda. Ironically, though, he’s just reinforcing the stereotype that MAGA is a cult.

Meanwhile, I would truly appreciate some more conservative opinions being shared in here. But I would hope they would be done in good faith, unlike a few posters in here.

Also, there probably are a lot of things posted in here that come from left-leaning social media feeds, which are biased and/or not factual. I scroll past a lot of stuff posted by @Polds4OSU. Partly because of quantity and partly because of quality. I typically only read their posts that other members reply to. I don’t have time to read and verify all of those posts. Nor do I want to spend all my time on one side of the issues.

Make no mistake, I don't feel like I bring balance in any way, shape, or form.
Also, EVERYTHING posted in here comes from left leaning media except what I and maybe 2 other occasional posters produce. You don't get much opposition because the personal attacks start running amok when it happens.

 

[TheMonkey]

The problem becomes when even the moderate (someone like me) and right/conservative leaning ( like @RxCowboy) get interpreted from MAGA crowd as Democrat/leftist/libtard.

The immigration discussions are a prime example.

I've stated multiple times that my position on Immigration deportations is:

I have no problem with deporting non-citizen convicted of ANY felony (even non-violent white collar crimes) and even some serious misdemeanors (domestic abuse/DUI/etc)......but give them their damned due process.

I have no problem with people that overstayed visas or engaged in unlawful entry into the country being deported....but give them their damned due process.

That's a moderate, even right-leaning position, to take on immigration, IMO. It's been mischaracterized as a leftist/libtard more than once.

Furthermore, I've called out @Polds4OSU multiple times for biased/not-factual posts. Just like I have Rob.

Just like you (and for the same reasons) I scroll past a lot of his stuff (mostly focused on posts/statements made directly Trump administration officials while ignoring the potentially biased characterizations from social media). Finally, most of the other more left posters here mostly post their own thought rather than linking to social media for support/argument or cutting and pasting from propagandist social media.

It seems to me that Rob has a big problem with the nature and volume of Polds's posts and has decided his solution is to just become the MAGA side of the same coin. That's an unfortunate decision IMO. Exacerbated, for me, by a strawman argument towards @GratefulPoke that it's okay when that happens from the left, but not allowed from MAGA. @GratefulPoke has been saying the exact opposite. It's bad from either side, but it continues to be allowed from both sides as well.

Agreed. It would be a fun thought experiment to have a poll to see how each of us view each other on the political spectrum vs how we each see ourselves.

 

[Vakarian74]

Make no mistake, I don't feel like I bring balance in any way, shape, or form.
Also, EVERYTHING posted in here comes from left leaning media except what I and maybe 2 other occasional posters produce. You don't get much opposition because the personal attacks start running amok when it happens.

MAGA the biggest victim mentality of all time.

 

[Rob B.]

The problem becomes when even the moderate (someone like me) and right/conservative leaning ( like @RxCowboy) get interpreted from MAGA crowd as Democrat/leftist/libtard.

The immigration discussions are a prime example.

I've stated multiple times that my position on Immigration deportations is:

I have no problem with deporting non-citizen convicted of ANY felony (even non-violent white collar crimes) and even some serious misdemeanors (domestic abuse/DUI/etc)......but give them their damned due process.

I have no problem with people that overstayed visas or engaged in unlawful entry into the country being deported....but give them their damned due process.

That's a moderate, even right-leaning position, to take on immigration, IMO. It's been mischaracterized as a leftist/libtard more than once.

Furthermore, I've called out @Polds4OSU multiple times for biased/not-factual posts. Just like I have Rob.

Just like you (and for the same reasons) I scroll past a lot of his stuff (mostly focused on posts/statements made directly Trump administration officials while ignoring the potentially biased characterizations from social media). Finally, most of the other more left posters here mostly post their own thought rather than linking to social media for support/argument or cutting and pasting from propagandist social media.

It seems to me that Rob has a big problem with the nature and volume of Polds's posts and has decided his solution is to just become the MAGA side of the same coin. That's an unfortunate decision IMO. Exacerbated, for me, by a strawman argument towards @GratefulPoke that it's okay when that happens from the left, but not allowed from MAGA. @GratefulPoke has been saying the exact opposite. It's bad from either side, but it continues to be allowed from both sides as well.

The only problem I have with Polds posts is he always dumps 15 articles on the board anytime real discussion occurs and we have to sift through them to try to continue. But it's what he does so it is what it is.

 

[TheMonkey]

Also, EVERYTHING posted in here comes from left leaning media except what I and maybe 2 other occasional posters produce.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. (Yes, I recognize the irony of this line)

 

[Vakarian74]

Agreed. It would be a fun thought experiment to have a poll to see how each of us view each other on the political spectrum vs how we each see ourselves.

Don't they have sights that ask a lot of questions together people kind of line up politically.

 

[Rob B.]

MAGA the biggest victim mentality of all time.

Oh, touched a feeler did I. Good because you're the biggest victim on the planet, according to you.

 

[TheMonkey]

MAGA the biggest victim mentality of all time.

And see, I don’t think this helps the issues I’m raising. You and @Rob B. have this personal vendetta feud that derails conversations. This is simply baiting him into an argument about victimization on both ends of the political spectrum. How does that help?

 

[cowboyinexile]

Agreed. It would be a fun thought experiment to have a poll to see how each of us view each other on the political spectrum vs how we each see ourselves.

This would be interesting. You would get an idea how others see you. Obviously too late but it would be interesting to see how that view has changed over time.

I will say as an old timer I remember @steross being one of the right wing guys way back in the day-like when people were debating how Roberts would do on the court.

Man some of us are old.

 

[CowboyJD]

The only problem I have with Polds posts is he always dumps 15 articles on the board anytime real discussion occurs and we have to sift through them to try to continue. But it's what he does so it is what it is.

I think you have more problems with Polds posts than just the volume, but I'll accept that as true for argument purpose and propose that if that is you only problem with them, you/we could:

And hear me out.....

1) not sift through them, just scroll by them;
2) put him on ignore;
3) call out the ones we do read that are factually inaccurate (as I have multiple times).

My position on Polds is a lot like the one I took about Midnight Toker in the AV. What happens in the AV stays in the AV so I won't elaborate any further, but you know exactly what I'm saying there.

And for the record, the sheer volume of his posts sometimes irritates me as well, but like you said it what it is.

 

[Backin82]

I don't know that there are many true ideological conservatives left. Most of them probably don't want to talk politics because there isn't much party identity they can find right now and they don't want to be associated/have to defend positions that their traditional party now pushes.

And the same is true with the ideological center left, but we have an administration that is so easy to find common ground with the more progressive elements of society that it makes discussion more palatable. I made a MTG joke a bit ago but I think she's right on the point she was trying to make. Adults can make decisions about their bodies but I don't think kids should be allowed to make permanent alterations to their gender even with parental consent. This shouldn't be seen as anti trans, just knowledge that kids don't think the consequences of their actions through (ask anyone in their 40's what they think of that tattoo they got on their 18th birthday). That's a huge step for someone to take and it should be done when they are older and fully understand the implications of what they are doing. I can sit here all day and talk about Trump but if the conversation here was about stuff like that and I had to bang my head against the wall being compare to people who think complete body autonomy should be extended to pre pubescent children then I would just not participate.

My mom is a classic, oldschool conservative/Christian/traditional person, and has recently been ostracized by all her friends due to her "extreme" viewpoints. Get this - the people who are de-friending and cancelling her? The Trump supporters. Why? Because she had the nerve to not support him based on his many un-supportable attributes. She's critical and outspoken of him, the administration, and all things that go against her traditional views.

She took part in the No Kings demonstrations, and got labeled "Hamas".

If you met my mom, you'd understand how insane all of the above is.

She's just trying to have, you know, *actual* conservative and/or Christian views (which can, at times, have their flaws), and she's lost lifelong friends over it. It's unfathomable.

 

[Polds4OSU]

And for the record, the sheer volume of his posts sometimes irritates me as well, but like you said it what it is.

Don't you see there are 4 of us, working in shifts. 4 hours at a time. 5 days a week.

and @Rob B. Put me on ignore and you don't have to see anything I post and don't have to scroll past anything.
but I can push this button on the bottom right and display it any time I want


I don't see any of your post and if someone quotes you it looks like the following

. It really does work.

 

[Backin82]

Back to middle east stuff...

I disagree with the U.S. getting involved in foreign countries like this. On what basis are we able to murder people without trial across the globe or attack foreign nations and kill their leaders without a declaration of war? Is this all somehow falling under the Patriot Act or other FISC nonsense?

 

[GratefulPoke]

Back to middle east stuff...

I disagree with the U.S. getting involved in foreign countries like this. On what basis are we able to murder people without trial across the globe or attack foreign nations and kill their leaders without a declaration of war? Is this all somehow falling under the Patriot Act or other FISC nonsense?

They don't even have a pretext. They are doing it for 2 primary reasons: 1) They can; and 2) Israel wants them to do it.

 

[Polds4OSU]

Back to middle east stuff...

I disagree with the U.S. getting involved in foreign countries like this. On what basis are we able to murder people without trial across the globe or attack foreign nations and kill their leaders without a declaration of war? Is this all somehow falling under the Patriot Act or other FISC nonsense?

it all started in 1846

and it all hinges on a change to the US Constitution wording done in 1787 PRIOR to it even being ratified

The original Constitution proposed that Only Congress had the Ability to "Make War". However, when the Framers of the Constitution met in Philly in 1787 to work to ratify the Constitution they changed the term "Make War" to "Declare War"...and up until 1846 no one really questioned that only Congress Could Declare War

Then Texas became a state and the following happened

In a message to Congress on May 11, 1846, President James K. Polk announced that the Republic of Texas was about to become a state. After Mexico threatened to invade Texas, Polk amassed federal troops around Corpus Christi. When Texas became a state, federal troops moved into an area in which the new international boundary was disputed. Mexican troops moved into the same area, and both forces clashed. The President then said that "after reiterated menaces, Mexico has passed the boundary of the United States, has invaded our territory and shed American blood upon the American soil and further proclaimed that hostilities have commenced and that the two nations are now at war." Some in Congress wondered if that was actually so, including Abraham Lincoln, who wrote in a letter to his law partner:

Lincoln Wrote to his Law Partner

Let me first state what I understand to be your position. It is, that if it shall become necessary, to repel invasion, the President may, without violation of the Constitution, cross the line and invade the territory of another country; and that whether such necessity exists in any given case, the President is to be the sole judge. ... But allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so, whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose—and allow him to make war at pleasure. ... If, today, he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, "I see no probability of the British invading us" but he will say to you "be silent; I see it, if you don't."

The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress, was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons. Kings had always been involved and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have always stood.

Representative Lincoln moved for a resolution issuing the President interrogatories (questions) so that Congress could determine for itself the exact "spot" of the conflict and whether the Congress believed it to be in the United States. However, Congress, by roll-call vote, declared war.

If it was true that the war was ongoing because the President had to repel a sudden attack, that had been contemplated by the framers in Philadelphia in August 1787, when the wording of the proposed Constitution was changed from "make war" to "declare war". American presidents have often not sought formal declarations of war but instead maintained that they have constitutional authority (Article II, Section 2) as commander-in chief-to use the military for "police actions".

 

[Polds4OSU]

https://v.redd.it/7fa73iftq7ng1/CMAF_270.mp4?source=fallback

So we are carpet bombing Tehran now?

I think there is a fake AI video of Tehran being carpet bombed floating around out there

 

[GratefulPoke]

I think there is a fake AI video of Tehran being carpet bombed floating around out there

Is this one fake?

 

[Stillwaterman]

And see, I don’t think this helps the issues I’m raising. You and @Rob B. have this personal vendetta feud that derails conversations. This is simply baiting him into an argument about victimization on both ends of the political spectrum. How does that help?

There used to be a lot more balanced conversation on this board (going back to OP) as you mentioned above. A lot of posters have just left the subforum all together.

 

[Polds4OSU]

Is this one fake?

pretty sure, I saw it like 3 days ago

Yeah, here are live cams from YouTube right now in Iran....but many seem blocked because they took down the internet there....but up until they took it down there was no sign any bombing like that video had ever taken place

FYI Youtube Live cams are all over the world in most cities and you can log on and watch live for yourself. The Iron Dome in action on the Tel Aviv cams is pretty wild when Iran fires missiles at them

Its pretty quite there right now.

 

[GratefulPoke]

pretty sure, I saw it like 3 days ago

I'll delete it out of caution.