Middle East

[cowboyinexile]

It is. And I realize @Rob B. thinks he is bringing balance to this den of Leftist propaganda. Ironically, though, he’s just reinforcing the stereotype that MAGA is a cult.

Meanwhile, I would truly appreciate some more conservative opinions being shared in here. But I would hope they would be done in good faith, unlike a few posters in here.

Also, there probably are a lot of things posted in here that come from left-leaning social media feeds, which are biased and/or not factual. I scroll past a lot is stuff posted by @Polds4OSU. Partly because of quantity and partly because of quality.

I don't know that there are many true ideological conservatives left. Most of them probably don't want to talk politics because there isn't much party identity they can find right now and they don't want to be associated/have to defend positions that their traditional party now pushes.

And the same is true with the ideological center left, but we have an administration that is so easy to find common ground with the more progressive elements of society that it makes discussion more palatable. I made a MTG joke a bit ago but I think she's right on the point she was trying to make. Adults can make decisions about their bodies but I don't think kids should be allowed to make permanent alterations to their gender even with parental consent. This shouldn't be seen as anti trans, just knowledge that kids don't think the consequences of their actions through (ask anyone in their 40's what they think of that tattoo they got on their 18th birthday). That's a huge step for someone to take and it should be done when they are older and fully understand the implications of what they are doing. I can sit here all day and talk about Trump but if the conversation here was about stuff like that and I had to bang my head against the wall being compare to people who think complete body autonomy should be extended to pre pubescent children then I would just not participate.

 

[GratefulPoke]

I don't know that there are many true ideological conservatives left. Most of them probably don't want to talk politics because there isn't much party identity they can find right now and they don't want to be associated/have to defend positions that their traditional party now pushes.

And the same is true with the ideological center left, but we have an administration that is so easy to find common ground with the more progressive elements of society that it makes discussion more palatable. I made a MTG joke a bit ago but I think she's right on the point she was trying to make. Adults can make decisions about their bodies but I don't think kids should be allowed to make permanent alterations to their gender even with parental consent. This shouldn't be seen as anti trans, just knowledge that kids don't think the consequences of their actions through (ask anyone in their 40's what they think of that tattoo they got on their 18th birthday). That's a huge step for someone to take and it should be done when they are older and fully understand the implications of what they are doing. I can sit here all day and talk about Trump but if the conversation here was about stuff like that and I had to bang my head against the wall being compare to people who think complete body autonomy should be extended to pre pubescent children then I would just not participate.

I agree with your first paragraph and know people who you describe.

The ideological center left is still the predominant group that holds party in the democratic party. The base might have moved on from them, but these "third way" people are very much still representative in the body politic.

 

[Polds4OSU]

It is. And I realize @Rob B. thinks he is bringing balance to this den of Leftist propaganda. Ironically, though, he’s just reinforcing the stereotype that MAGA is a cult.

Meanwhile, I would truly appreciate some more conservative opinions being shared in here. But I would hope they would be done in good faith, unlike a few posters in here.

Also, there probably are a lot of things posted in here that come from left-leaning social media feeds, which are biased and/or not factual. I scroll past a lot of stuff posted by @Polds4OSU. Partly because of quantity and partly because of quality. I typically only read their posts that other members reply to. I don’t have time to read and verify all of those posts. Nor do I want to spend all my time on one side of the issues.

I also post the same story multiple times from different outlets to provide different perspectives and talking points

Hence the volume.

 

[cowboyinexile]

I agree with your first paragraph and know people who you describe.

The ideological center left is still the predominant group that holds party in the democratic party. The base might have moved on from them, but these "third way" people are very much still representative in the body politic.

I can't decide if the fringe left is in the drivers seat or just drives some of the conversation.

Im guessing that has more to do with the media algorithms than anything. The left wing stuff wants me to believe things should be really left wing snd the right wing wants me to believe everyone who doesn't follow their brand of politics is really left wing.

 

[GratefulPoke]

I can't decide if the fringe left is in the drivers seat or just drives some of the conversation.

Im guessing that has more to do with the media algorithms than anything. The left wing stuff wants me to believe things should be really left wing snd the right wing wants me to believe everyone who doesn't follow their brand of politics is really left wing.

Who do think the "fringe left" is and what positions do they take? I think there are a lot of centerist dems that use language and virtue signal that they are much farther to the left than they are. This is exclusively on social issues too, it rarely happens with economics. Why? Because social issues rarely hurt their donors. Its why we had all of these corporations supporting Pride and coming out with antiracism statements, it not only didn't cost them anything, but they often made money on them. They don't want you paying attention to economics and how they and the billionaire class are robbing us blind.

On economics there is almost no one on the left in US politics. Most are center right neoliberals, and that goes for both parties.

 

[cowboyinexile]

Who do think the "fringe left" is and what positions do they take? I think there are a lot of centerist dems that use language and virtue signal that they are much farther to the left than they are. This is exclusively on social issues too, it rarely happens with economics. Why? Because social issues rarely hurt their donors. Its why we had all of these corporations supporting Pride and coming out with antiracism statements, it not only didn't cost them anything, but they often made money on them. They don't want you paying attention to economics and how they and the billionaire class are robbing us blind.

On economics there is almost no one on the left in US politics. Most are center right neoliberals, and that goes for both parties.

This is a good point. I think supporting basic human rights is pretty normal behavior but no one wants to be labeled as an extremist. But what are those extremist views? Well I don't know that I can say for sure. Things that are reasonable, like the state of Minnesota making sure female students have access to personal hygiene products in schools get turned into something weird because if it sounds reasonable the people who want the other side labeled as extreme will just make something up. So when you hear something extreme that doesn't apply to you, well you think it sounds crazy but maybe none of that stuff really happens either, or it happens with low enough frequency that it isn't really an issue worth debating.

 

[Rob B.]

It is. And I realize @Rob B. thinks he is bringing balance to this den of Leftist propaganda. Ironically, though, he’s just reinforcing the stereotype that MAGA is a cult.

Meanwhile, I would truly appreciate some more conservative opinions being shared in here. But I would hope they would be done in good faith, unlike a few posters in here.

Also, there probably are a lot of things posted in here that come from left-leaning social media feeds, which are biased and/or not factual. I scroll past a lot of stuff posted by @Polds4OSU. Partly because of quantity and partly because of quality. I typically only read their posts that other members reply to. I don’t have time to read and verify all of those posts. Nor do I want to spend all my time on one side of the issues.

Make no mistake, I don't feel like I bring balance in any way, shape, or form.
Also, EVERYTHING posted in here comes from left leaning media except what I and maybe 2 other occasional posters produce. You don't get much opposition because the personal attacks start running amok when it happens.

 

[CowboyJD]

It is. And I realize @Rob B. thinks he is bringing balance to this den of Leftist propaganda. Ironically, though, he’s just reinforcing the stereotype that MAGA is a cult.

Meanwhile, I would truly appreciate some more conservative opinions being shared in here. But I would hope they would be done in good faith, unlike a few posters in here.

Also, there probably are a lot of things posted in here that come from left-leaning social media feeds, which are biased and/or not factual. I scroll past a lot of stuff posted by @Polds4OSU. Partly because of quantity and partly because of quality. I typically only read their posts that other members reply to. I don’t have time to read and verify all of those posts. Nor do I want to spend all my time on one side of the issues.

The problem becomes when even the moderate (someone like me) and right/conservative leaning ( like @RxCowboy) get interpreted from MAGA crowd as Democrat/leftist/libtard.

The immigration discussions are a prime example.

I've stated multiple times that my position on Immigration deportations is:

I have no problem with deporting non-citizen convicted of ANY felony (even non-violent white collar crimes) and even some serious misdemeanors (domestic abuse/DUI/etc)......but give them their damned due process.

I have no problem with people that overstayed visas or engaged in unlawful entry into the country being deported....but give them their damned due process.

That's a moderate, even right-leaning position, to take on immigration, IMO. It's been mischaracterized as a leftist/libtard more than once.

Furthermore, I've called out @Polds4OSU multiple times for biased/not-factual posts. Just like I have Rob.

Just like you (and for the same reasons) I scroll past a lot of his stuff (mostly focused on posts/statements made directly Trump administration officials while ignoring the potentially biased characterizations from social media). Finally, most of the other more left posters here mostly post their own thought rather than linking to social media for support/argument or cutting and pasting from propagandist social media.

It seems to me that Rob has a big problem with the nature and volume of Polds's posts and has decided his solution is to just become the MAGA side of the same coin. That's an unfortunate decision IMO. Exacerbated, for me, by a strawman argument towards @GratefulPoke that it's okay when that happens from the left, but not allowed from MAGA. @GratefulPoke has been saying the exact opposite. It's bad from either side, but it continues to be allowed from both sides as well.

 

[cowboyinexile]

The problem becomes when even the moderate (someone like me) and right/conservative leaning ( like @RxCowboy) get interpreted from MAGA crowd as Democrat/leftist/libtard.

The immigration discussions are a prime example.

I've stated multiple times that my position on Immigration deportations is:

I have no problem with deporting non-citizen convicted of ANY felony (even non-violent white collar crimes) and even some serious misdemeanors (domestic abuse/DUI/etc)......but give them their damned due process.

I have no problem with people that overstayed visas or engaged in unlawful entry into the country being deported....but give them their damned due process.

That's a moderate, even right-leaning position, to take on immigration, IMO. It's been mischaracterized as a leftist/libtard more than once.

Furthermore, I've called out @Polds4OSU multiple times for biased/not-factual posts. Just like I have Rob.

Just like you (and for the same reasons) I scroll past a lot of his stuff (mostly focused on posts/statements made directly Trump administration officials while ignoring the potentially biased characterizations from social media). Finally, most of the other more left posters here mostly post their own thought rather than linking to social media for support/argument or cutting and pasting from propagandist social media.

It seems to me that Rob has a big problem with the nature and volume of Polds's posts and has decided his solution is to just become the MAGA side of the same coin. That's an unfortunate decision IMO. Exacerbated, for me, by a strawman argument towards @GratefulPoke that it's okay when that happens from the left, but not allowed from MAGA. @GratefulPoke has been saying the exact opposite. It's bad from either side, but it continues to be allowed from both sides as well.

Libtard

 

[TheMonkey]

The problem becomes when even the moderate (someone like me) and right/conservative leaning ( like @RxCowboy) get interpreted from MAGA crowd as Democrat/leftist/libtard.

The immigration discussions are a prime example.

I've stated multiple times that my position on Immigration deportations is:

I have no problem with deporting non-citizen convicted of ANY felony (even non-violent white collar crimes) and even some serious misdemeanors (domestic abuse/DUI/etc)......but give them their damned due process.

I have no problem with people that overstayed visas or engaged in unlawful entry into the country being deported....but give them their damned due process.

That's a moderate, even right-leaning position, to take on immigration, IMO. It's been mischaracterized as a leftist/libtard more than once.

Furthermore, I've called out @Polds4OSU multiple times for biased/not-factual posts. Just like I have Rob.

Just like you (and for the same reasons) I scroll past a lot of his stuff (mostly focused on posts/statements made directly Trump administration officials while ignoring the potentially biased characterizations from social media). Finally, most of the other more left posters here mostly post their own thought rather than linking to social media for support/argument or cutting and pasting from propagandist social media.

It seems to me that Rob has a big problem with the nature and volume of Polds's posts and has decided his solution is to just become the MAGA side of the same coin. That's an unfortunate decision IMO. Exacerbated, for me, by a strawman argument towards @GratefulPoke that it's okay when that happens from the left, but not allowed from MAGA. @GratefulPoke has been saying the exact opposite. It's bad from either side, but it continues to be allowed from both sides as well.

Agreed. It would be a fun thought experiment to have a poll to see how each of us view each other on the political spectrum vs how we each see ourselves.

 

[Vakarian74]

Make no mistake, I don't feel like I bring balance in any way, shape, or form.
Also, EVERYTHING posted in here comes from left leaning media except what I and maybe 2 other occasional posters produce. You don't get much opposition because the personal attacks start running amok when it happens.

MAGA the biggest victim mentality of all time.

 

[Rob B.]

The problem becomes when even the moderate (someone like me) and right/conservative leaning ( like @RxCowboy) get interpreted from MAGA crowd as Democrat/leftist/libtard.

The immigration discussions are a prime example.

I've stated multiple times that my position on Immigration deportations is:

I have no problem with deporting non-citizen convicted of ANY felony (even non-violent white collar crimes) and even some serious misdemeanors (domestic abuse/DUI/etc)......but give them their damned due process.

I have no problem with people that overstayed visas or engaged in unlawful entry into the country being deported....but give them their damned due process.

That's a moderate, even right-leaning position, to take on immigration, IMO. It's been mischaracterized as a leftist/libtard more than once.

Furthermore, I've called out @Polds4OSU multiple times for biased/not-factual posts. Just like I have Rob.

Just like you (and for the same reasons) I scroll past a lot of his stuff (mostly focused on posts/statements made directly Trump administration officials while ignoring the potentially biased characterizations from social media). Finally, most of the other more left posters here mostly post their own thought rather than linking to social media for support/argument or cutting and pasting from propagandist social media.

It seems to me that Rob has a big problem with the nature and volume of Polds's posts and has decided his solution is to just become the MAGA side of the same coin. That's an unfortunate decision IMO. Exacerbated, for me, by a strawman argument towards @GratefulPoke that it's okay when that happens from the left, but not allowed from MAGA. @GratefulPoke has been saying the exact opposite. It's bad from either side, but it continues to be allowed from both sides as well.

The only problem I have with Polds posts is he always dumps 15 articles on the board anytime real discussion occurs and we have to sift through them to try to continue. But it's what he does so it is what it is.

 

[TheMonkey]

Also, EVERYTHING posted in here comes from left leaning media except what I and maybe 2 other occasional posters produce.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. (Yes, I recognize the irony of this line)

 

[Vakarian74]

Agreed. It would be a fun thought experiment to have a poll to see how each of us view each other on the political spectrum vs how we each see ourselves.

Don't they have sights that ask a lot of questions together people kind of line up politically.

 

[Rob B.]

MAGA the biggest victim mentality of all time.

Oh, touched a feeler did I. Good because you're the biggest victim on the planet, according to you.

 

[TheMonkey]

MAGA the biggest victim mentality of all time.

And see, I don’t think this helps the issues I’m raising. You and @Rob B. have this personal vendetta feud that derails conversations. This is simply baiting him into an argument about victimization on both ends of the political spectrum. How does that help?

 

[cowboyinexile]

Agreed. It would be a fun thought experiment to have a poll to see how each of us view each other on the political spectrum vs how we each see ourselves.

This would be interesting. You would get an idea how others see you. Obviously too late but it would be interesting to see how that view has changed over time.

I will say as an old timer I remember @steross being one of the right wing guys way back in the day-like when people were debating how Roberts would do on the court.

Man some of us are old.

 

[CowboyJD]

Who do think the "fringe left" is and what positions do they take? I think there are a lot of centerist dems that use language and virtue signal that they are much farther to the left than they are. This is exclusively on social issues too, it rarely happens with economics. Why? Because social issues rarely hurt their donors. Its why we had all of these corporations supporting Pride and coming out with antiracism statements, it not only didn't cost them anything, but they often made money on them. They don't want you paying attention to economics and how they and the billionaire class are robbing us blind.

On economics there is almost no one on the left in US politics. Most are center right neoliberals, and that goes for both parties.

To me, it's quickly becoming not even a left v. right dichotomy.

It's becoming an authoritarian/oligarchal v. fair representative democracy issue. An elite/powerful v. the rest of us issue.

The oligarchs and their ilk aren't involved in politics because of their belief system because the only belief system they have is the continued personal accumulation of wealth and power over right versus wrong. They'll sway left or right as the political wind blows....whomever can help them accumulate more wealth and power....look at Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, et al.

It's not left vs. right. It's capital/financialization v. labor.

I don't want to call it a "class war" yet, but as the middle class of our society (which I recognize I am firmly a part of) continues to disappear, it's becoming more and more that.

 

[CowboyJD]

The only problem I have with Polds posts is he always dumps 15 articles on the board anytime real discussion occurs and we have to sift through them to try to continue. But it's what he does so it is what it is.

I think you have more problems with Polds posts than just the volume, but I'll accept that as true for argument purpose and propose that if that is you only problem with them, you/we could:

And hear me out.....

1) not sift through them, just scroll by them;
2) put him on ignore;
3) call out the ones we do read that are factually inaccurate (as I have multiple times).

My position on Polds is a lot like the one I took about Midnight Toker in the AV. What happens in the AV stays in the AV so I won't elaborate any further, but you know exactly what I'm saying there.

And for the record, the sheer volume of his posts sometimes irritates me as well, but like you said it what it is.

 

[steross]

This would be interesting. You would get an idea how others see you. Obviously too late but it would be interesting to see how that view has changed over time.

I will say as an old timer I remember @steross being one of the right wing guys way back in the day-like when people were debating how Roberts would do on the court.

Man some of us are old.

I think we all drift some over time (@GratefulPoke as I recall was a fairly staunch libertarian in a past life).

That said, I don't feel like I have drifted so far that I went from a mild righty to a libtard.

I've said before, in Australia they thought I was insanely conservative.