You aren’t going to convince them.
WSJ News Exclusive | Hamas Fighters Trained in Iran Before Oct. 7 Attacks
Roughly 500 Palestinian militants got specialized combat instruction at Iranian facilities as recently as September.www.wsj.com
Israel under attack
- Thread starter GOGETUMPOKE
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PF5
Sheriff
Wow
PF5
Sheriff
Summary (BBC)
- The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has carried out a "targeted raid" overnight in northern Gaza using tanks
- Israel has not launched its expected ground invasion of Gaza - but says the raid was "preparation for the next stages of combat"
- The IDF says the raid, which lasted hours, "eliminated terrorists" - with no Israeli injuries
- Meanwhile, Hamas says about 50 hostages being held in Gaza have been killed as a result of Israel bombarding the Strip in retaliation to Hamas's 7 October attack
- More than 1,400 were killed in the initial attacks on Israel by Hamas, and Israel says more than 220 people are still being held hostage in Gaza
- The Hamas-run health ministry says 7,000 people have been killed since Israeli air strikes on Gaza began - an increase of 500 since Wednesday
- The UN's agency for Palestinians says it found more fuel on Wednesday - but warns supplies are running low across Gaza
GOGETUMPOKE
Ranger
Opinion | The Disgrace of the United Nations on Israel
The Secretary-General abandons Israel, a state the U.N. helped to create.
www.wsj.com
Mr. Guterres seems to know little about the institution he leads. A U.N. resolution passed in 1947 recommended the partition plan for Palestine that led to the creation of Israel the following year, as our friends at the New York Sun note in a sharp editorial.
Meanwhile, for decades the U.N., under the auspices of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) refugee agency exclusively for Palestinians, has discouraged permanent resettlement by refugees and runs schools that teach children Israeli territory belongs to them.
Far worse is Mr. Guterres’s parroting of what amounts to a modern-day blood libel that Israel is indiscriminately killing Palestinian civilians. The Israel Defense Forces more than a week ago tried to warn Gazans to flee the likely path of an invasion; Hamas discouraged civilians from doing so and the U.N. criticized . . . Israel.
Civilians are dying because Hamas deliberately targeted Israelis and now uses Gazans as human shields, as Mr. Guterres had to acknowledge Tuesday. By calling for Israel to accept a cease-fire, Mr. Guterres is effectively rewarding the terrorists’ civilian-killing strategy while denying a U.N.-approved state the same ability to defend itself that every other country enjoys.
This false equivalence elevates Mr. Guterres’s comments to the destructive from merely foolish. His message to the world’s rogues is that if you go on a killing spree, the U.N. will help justify your depredations. Will Mr. Guterres concoct some excuse if Beijing invades Taiwan—or Philippine territory? This is how the U.N. makes itself a fellow traveler in the advancing march of global disorder.
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Notice how the majority of the articles you post are opinion pieces from the wall street journal? you might want to broaden your horizons a bit. It might increase your understanding of the situation, instead of posting the same inane points by the same few journalists reporting their thoughts and feelings and not the facts on the ground.
Opinion | The Disgrace of the United Nations on Israel
The Secretary-General abandons Israel, a state the U.N. helped to create.
Mr. Guterres seems to know little about the institution he leads. A U.N. resolution passed in 1947 recommended the partition plan for Palestine that led to the creation of Israel the following year, as our friends at the New York Sun note in a sharp editorial.
Meanwhile, for decades the U.N., under the auspices of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) refugee agency exclusively for Palestinians, has discouraged permanent resettlement by refugees and runs schools that teach children Israeli territory belongs to them.
Far worse is Mr. Guterres’s parroting of what amounts to a modern-day blood libel that Israel is indiscriminately killing Palestinian civilians. The Israel Defense Forces more than a week ago tried to warn Gazans to flee the likely path of an invasion; Hamas discouraged civilians from doing so and the U.N. criticized . . . Israel.
Civilians are dying because Hamas deliberately targeted Israelis and now uses Gazans as human shields, as Mr. Guterres had to acknowledge Tuesday. By calling for Israel to accept a cease-fire, Mr. Guterres is effectively rewarding the terrorists’ civilian-killing strategy while denying a U.N.-approved state the same ability to defend itself that every other country enjoys.
This false equivalence elevates Mr. Guterres’s comments to the destructive from merely foolish. His message to the world’s rogues is that if you go on a killing spree, the U.N. will help justify your depredations. Will Mr. Guterres concoct some excuse if Beijing invades Taiwan—or Philippine territory? This is how the U.N. makes itself a fellow traveler in the advancing march of global disorder.
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JTOSU
Ranger
I agree with you that people should educate themselves from multiple viewpoints. However you just “liked” a post from a poll result from an extreme left organization that Tlaib herself has included in several of her tweet rants.
Almost every legitimate poll (CNN poll, USAToday, WSJ/Ipsos, etc) show Americans back Israel overwhelmingly and with their response to the terrorist attack.
Tlaib is an extremist and her views (and insults comparing SA apartheid) do not represent how the vast majority of Americans feel.
Just for the sake of argument, where does the Constitution require everyone in this country to march in lock step? People have the right to promote an ideal that is not in the majority viewpoint. MAGA is not a majority. Most people understand there are a multitude of religions represented in this country, are you promoting a state religion based on say Christianity? Islam? Hindu? Jewish? Budist? Etc.
GOGETUMPOKE
Ranger
I understand the situation just fine. Notice how you and your ilk don't take issue with the specifics of the article but instead choose to attack the source which, by the way, is one of the most even handed publications out there. Here's one you'll like.
Let's think critically about this one. What are the causes of terrorism?
PF5
Sheriff
the poll is indeed 'left', but was shared by Newsweek; but the question on poll was 'if US should call for a ceasefire and de-escalation of violence in Gaza', not 'if americans back israel'...so...
They are a progressive think tank, this isn't that different than Cato running a poll. The poll question is worded very differently than the ones used by USA Today, CNN, etc. I think all of them should be considered when talking about public sentiment on this topic. When different questions are asked, the results are different. That is public opinion and polling 101.
I don't care who Tlaib quotes or not, and that doesn't automatically discredit them. They didn't quote Tlaib on this and she didn't conduct the poll, which is how it would work if you were wanting to discredit the poll by mentioning her name.
The comparison of apartheid is an accurate one, based on a number of South Africans who lived under that system, but more importantly by the folks we discussed the week before last in the Israeli government itself. As a reminder, it was a former head of Mossad and six (6) former heads of Shin Bet, a General and several former cabinet members. These aren't nobodies and it is not a small number of Israelis that have been sounding the bell about what is going on under Netanyahu. It is also one of the reasons why Israel was in the midst of a constitutional crisis
Normally jihad
JTOSU
Ranger
Right there is a huge level of disagreement.
Biden: Biden has stated, multiple times, that he disagrees that Israel is an apartheid state.
Palestinian Arab Leader Mansour Abbas: He stated he rejects the label of calling Israel an apartheid state.
Most all US Congressmen who have access to more intelligence that either of us: In July of this year, by an overwhelming vote of 412 to 9 the US House passed a resolution stating that “The state of Israel is not a racist or apartheid state…..”
Here is where I don’t disagree with you. There are people in the world who do label Israel as an apartheid state. But that view is a minority and not strongly shared. And within the US, it is a fair to say that it is an extreme view to believe Israel is an apartheid state like South Africa was.
Incorrect on Abbas. He avoided the question altogether since he is trying to work towards an agreement. Lets look at the full quote:
“I’m usually trying not to be judgmental, I’m not trying to say you’re racist or the state is racist, or this is an apartheid state or not an apartheid state,” Abbas said. “My role as a political leader is to try to bridge the gaps."
That is a very different response than a "I don't believe Israel is an apartheid state".
Also, lets look at the full statement by Antonio Gutierres:
"I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel. Nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians - or the launching of rockets against civilian targets."
He then told the council that it was "important to also recognise the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum", adding: "The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation."
He described how Palestinians had "seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished".
"But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people."
Israel demands UN chief resign over Hamas attack comments
António Guterres denies he justified Hamas's attacks by saying they "did not happen in a vacuum".
www.bbc.com
That hits a bit differently than just "terrorism does not occur in a vacuum" (which is true, by the way), does it not?
JTOSU
Ranger
Think you are not looking at correct Abbas quote.Incorrect on Abbas. He avoided the question altogether since he is trying to work towards an agreement. Lets look at the full quote:
“I’m usually trying not to be judgmental, I’m not trying to say you’re racist or the state is racist, or this is an apartheid state or not an apartheid state,” Abbas said. “My role as a political leader is to try to bridge the gaps."
That is a very different response than a "I don't believe Israel is an apartheid state".
Also, lets look at the full statement by Antonio Gutierres:
"I have condemned unequivocally the horrifying and unprecedented 7 October acts of terror by Hamas in Israel. Nothing can justify the deliberate killing, injuring and kidnapping of civilians - or the launching of rockets against civilian targets."
He then told the council that it was "important to also recognise the attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum", adding: "The Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation."
He described how Palestinians had "seen their land steadily devoured by settlements and plagued by violence; their economy stifled; their people displaced and their homes demolished".
"But the grievances of the Palestinian people cannot justify the appalling attacks by Hamas. And those appalling attacks cannot justify the collective punishment of the Palestinian people."
Israel demands UN chief resign over Hamas attack comments
António Guterres denies he justified Hamas's attacks by saying they "did not happen in a vacuum".
That hits a bit differently than just "terrorism does not occur in a vacuum", does it not?
His direct quote was “I would not call it apartheid” when asked about the label from Amnesty International. Unless you are claiming the AP misquoted him.
Arab party leader in Israel rejects 'apartheid' label
JERUSALEM (AP) — The head of an Arab party in Israel who made history last year by joining the governing coalition said Thursday he would not use the word “apartheid” to describe relations between Jews and Arabs within the country.
apnews.com
PF5
Sheriff
whatever the correct quote is, he has repeatedly been blasted by Palestinians for his thoughts on Israel...taking one dudes quote as if he speaks for all Palestinians is like hearing one American congress member saying US has never experienced racial division and someone from another country saying, 'see, Americans say no racial division.'...Think you are not looking at correct Abbas quote.
His direct quote was “I would not call it apartheid” when asked about the label from Amnesty International. Unless you are claiming the AP misquoted him.
Arab party leader in Israel rejects 'apartheid' label
JERUSALEM (AP) — The head of an Arab party in Israel who made history last year by joining the governing coalition said Thursday he would not use the word “apartheid” to describe relations between Jews and Arabs within the country.
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