ICE

cowboyinexile said:
Interstates and side streets aren't the same level of blocking a roadway.

Not saying anything about the legality or morality of either situation but no one was doing 70 coming up to the incident earlier this week. I don't think comparing one to the other makes much of a point, unless you are trying to find anything you can think of that might stick to prove your argument.


It comes down to this. Either you think at some point the government has justifiable means to execute dissidents or you don't. I don't know that we have all of the details behind the incident yet but worst case she was there to start trouble. From what Ive read in normal situations like this if law enforcement thinks a person is trying to run them over they get out of the way, take down their plates and take them into custody in a manner where the potential to harm themselves and bystanders is minimized. No one is talking about this but what if in the officers haste to discharge his firearm he lets one loose that takes out someone across the street watching this unfold. Is he guilty of a crime then?

So the truth is likely somewhere between she was in the wrong place at the wrong time and just trying to get out of the way or she was there to agitate and was trying to bump the officer and planned on flipping him the bird as she sped away. I don't think there is room in there for a capital offense. Obviously you disagree and think somewhere the officer was justified in using lethal force. I guess the next question is how far do you think their authority goes in using lethal force? The next time someone takes a swing at an officer, can they shoot them? If you connect with a punch just right you can knock someone to the ground and cause a brain hemorrhage. What if someone is saying something that could cause a riot? Their speech is inciting others so they needed to be silenced.

Obviously (hopefully) you see some of this would be an egregious use of lethal force by an officer. But when you have a relatively untrained federal agency that sees these as acts that could potentially require lethal force and they now know the federally government at the highest levels will support them no matter what, it creates a serious issue for the rest of us.
Click to expand...
I absolutely think it was an egregious use of lethal force. Have stated that repeatedly. But if you think she was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'm sorry but you're blinded by the rage of her senseless death. She was exactly where she intended to be at the time she intended to be there and there is zero doubt about it.
 
GratefulPoke said:
Yeah, they have lost power for sure. But if you think that small government will get us out of this mess, I cannot agree with that. We have to have as powerful of a government as the most powerful corporations to break them up and reduce their power in our everyday lives.

We see today the product of what "laissez faire" economics results in, and why it was a mistake. A democracy or republic cannot survive these levels of wealth and power stratification. It will destroy it and authoritarianism will ensue.
Click to expand...

I'm not stating my position. Just saying that there is a significant portion of the population that feel that way.

I'm for efficient government. Everyone laughed at Yang but advocating that congress should have to pass laws with KPIs attached and revote every 5 years on whether the spending was effective for the reason stated was brilliant in my opinion.
 
Rob B. said:
Words from retired journalis Mark Holmberg kind of explains what I have been arguing with you "she's an innocent victim" folks.

"Was it necessary for ICE Special Response Team member Jonathan Ross to fatally shoot anti-ICE activist Renee Good Wednesday morning?
I don’t think so. But I’m sure he’ll be cleared.
Did his scary dragging incident last June that left him with 33 stitches while trying to arrest a known criminal illegal immigrant motorist make it more likely for him to open fire when Renee Good drove her car into him?
It could be.
Should this seasoned military and ICE veteran have been reassigned to duty that didn’t involve potential contact with runaway drivers?
It’s a point to consider.
Should Renee Good have blocked the roadway - and ICE officers’ progress - with her car for four minutes while her wife filmed and participated with protesters clashing with ICE agents?
No.
Should she have backed up and then pulled forward into Ross when another officer came up and addressed her through her open window.
No. Absolutely not. Even her wife had to step out of the way.
I know I’m not going to change anyone’s mind.
The left says she’s an innocent victim and it’s Trump’s fault for unleashing federal forces in our communities.
The right says she caused her own death, assisted by the legions of agitators repeatedly interfering with agents doing legal roundups of illegal aliens.
Either way it’s a horrible, avoidable tragedy. Her family will live with it forever. So will Agent Ross and his family. Especially him.
Here’s why I’m chiming in:
THIS ROADWAY ACTIVISM MUST STOP.
Get the hell out of our streets.
Stop blocking cars and trucks with your bodies. Stop jumping on cars, breaking windows.
Stop using vehicles as barricades.
If you try to ram other citizens, police, federal agents, other vehicles, you should be arrested and charged with felonious assault with a deadly weapon and given a fat mandatory sentence. At least five full years in prison.
Our roads are not weapons or stages to be used to fight our culture wars.
You cannot block them.
I’ll repeat myself yet again:
YOU CANNOT INTERFERE WITH ANYONE ELSE’S FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT.
By doing so, you are violating one of our most basic rights: to freely move.
You are changing their destiny, no matter how infinitesimally.
We’re not just talking about stopping fire trucks, ambulances, school buses.
You cannot interfere with anyone’s progress.
THIS IS THE LAW!
Your protest cannot block roads, sidewalks - ANY PUBLIC SPACES - without a permit. (And you cannot protest on private or government property without permission.)
Our foreprotesters were aware of this and knew they would be arrested if they violated this foundational societal standard.
You didn’t see them fighting arrest when they did. They knew the risk.
Technically, if you deliberately force someone out of their intended path you are committing abduction and you should be charged as such. That’s a serious felony.
I’m sick of this shit.
It’s stupid, reckless, illegal, anti-freedom, hugely dangerous.
And deadly.
There are too many modern-day, punk-ass protestors and hysterical, violent activists who have no respect for the rights of others.
They think their beefs and agendas supersede our laws, our rights, basic decency and honor.
They piss on the memory of our great foreprotesters.
I’m not advocating that anyone else follows me, but here’s what I’m going to do:
If I see anyone blocking roads or sidewalks with an unpermitted protest, I am going to grab them by the ears and drag them out of the way, like their mothers should have done."
Click to expand...
The Civil Rights era would disagree. Sometimes in our history the powerful have been wrong. But sure let’s leave it up to them to tell us how to protest and start the ball of change rolling.

Also l, if the change is worth fighting for those that protest should be afforded the rights granted under the Constitution. One person does not get to be detainor, jury, judge and executioner.

Today you say don’t protest in the streets. Then it will be sidewalks or schools. Then it will be public spaces. Then it will be don’t protest.
 
Rob B. said:
I absolutely think it was an egregious use of lethal force. Have stated that repeatedly. But if you think she was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'm sorry but you're blinded by the rage of her senseless death. She was exactly where she intended to be at the time she intended to be there and there is zero doubt about it.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, was this egregious use of force a LEGAL use of force?

My opinion, no.

In your opinion, was this egregious use of force LEGALLY justified by anything she or anybody else did on that day?

My opinion no.

At the point that the egregious use of force is ILLEGAL.....that there is NO LEGAL JUSTIFICATION for the egregious use of force, I DNGAF about whether she was in the wrong place at the wrong time or that she intended to be there at the time she intended to be there.

At the point that the use of force by the government is illegal and without any legal justification, my focus and anger is 100% on the government's illegal, legally unjustifiable killing of someone. All the other noise about what she did or didn't do is just a distraction (or some weird attempted moral justification beyond the law) from the on-going lethal tyranny against the people by our government.
 
Rob B. said:
I absolutely think it was an egregious use of lethal force. Have stated that repeatedly. But if you think she was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'm sorry but you're blinded by the rage of her senseless death. She was exactly where she intended to be at the time she intended to be there and there is zero doubt about it.
Click to expand...

You didn't read what I wrote did you.
 
oks10 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/2009710451362558264
Click to expand...
Not wanting to change the subject…but …..

That picture is Paul Revere’s engraving “The Bloody Massacre perpetrated in King Street” and historian will say it is historically inaccurate. Revere actually changed someone else’s painting to make it look more inflammatory.

It was, however, powerful and incredible propaganda and helped the cause of the patriots. Our 2nd President, John Adams, was actually involved in the defense of the British soldiers. The jury found the leader of the British not guilty.
 
JTOSU said:
Not wanting to change the subject…but …..

That picture is Paul Revere’s engraving “The Bloody Massacre perpetrated in King Street” and historian will say it is historically inaccurate. It was, however, powerful and incredible propaganda and helped the cause of the patriots. Our 2nd President, John Adams, was actually involved in the defense of the British soldiers.
Click to expand...
nbc GIF


The message is still on point though. 😉
 
Rep. Angie Craig: "We were told because this facility is being funding by the 'Big Beautiful Bill,' not the congressional appropriations act, that we would not be allowed to enter the facility. That's complete nonsense ... I informed them they were violating the law. They said they didn't care."

www.threads.com

Aaron Rupar (@aaron.rupar) on Threads

Rep. Angie Craig: "We were told because this facility is being funding by the 'Big Beautiful Bill,' not the congressional appropriations act, that we would not be allowed to enter the facility. That's complete nonsense ... I informed them they were violating the law. They said they didn't care."
www.threads.com www.threads.com
 
JTOSU said:
Not wanting to change the subject…but …..

That picture is Paul Revere’s engraving “The Bloody Massacre perpetrated in King Street” and historian will say it is historically inaccurate. Revere actually changed someone else’s painting to make it look more inflammatory.

It was, however, powerful and incredible propaganda and helped the cause of the patriots. Our 2nd President, John Adams, was actually involved in the defense of the British soldiers. The jury found the leader of the British not guilty.
Click to expand...
Captain Thomas Preston was acquitted in the first trial.

Six of the eight soldiers tried in the second trial were acquitted. The other two were convicted of the lesser charge of manslaughter.

Adams represented all of them.
 
Polds4OSU said:
Rep. Angie Craig: "We were told because this facility is being funding by the 'Big Beautiful Bill,' not the congressional appropriations act, that we would not be allowed to enter the facility. That's complete nonsense ... I informed them they were violating the law. They said they didn't care."

www.threads.com

Aaron Rupar (@aaron.rupar) on Threads

Rep. Angie Craig: "We were told because this facility is being funding by the 'Big Beautiful Bill,' not the congressional appropriations act, that we would not be allowed to enter the facility. That's complete nonsense ... I informed them they were violating the law. They said they didn't care."
www.threads.com www.threads.com
Click to expand...

Angie Craig has her eyes on the governors mansion.
 
Reps. Ilhan Omar and Angie Craig were met with dozens of armed ICE agents, some with pepper spray in their hands, outside of a detention facility in Minnesota. ICE refused to allow them members to do their jobs and conduct an oversight visit.

www.threads.com

Here’s Why w/ Kevin Ortega-Rojas (@hereswhykevin) on Threads

Reps. Ilhan Omar and Angie Craig were met with dozens of armed ICE agents, some with pepper spray in their hands, outside of a detention facility in Minnesota. ICE refused to allow them members to do their jobs and conduct an oversight visit. Sources: FDTV/Zeteo
www.threads.com www.threads.com
 
These are not law enforcement officers. They’re actors with live ammo.

“Academy training was shortened to 47 days, three officials told me, the number picked because Trump is the 47th president."

people.com

ICE Academy Shortened Its Training to Just 47 Days Under Trump in Nod to the 47th President, Report Claims

The training period for new ICE recruits was trimmed 'roughly in half' to just 47 days last year, according to a report by 'The Atlantic,' because Donald Trump is the 47th president. ICE training protocols have become a focal point since the Jan. 7 shooting death of U.S. citizen Renee Nicole...
people.com people.com
 
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