Funny Political Memes

She knew it was a lie all along. Now she sees speaking out against it as more politically expedient than perpetuating the lie.

This is an interesting development and is a good sign IMO.
I don't think so. I think she is just like the followers and was a true believer. Even though she somehow made herself a leader.

People joke about "cult" but there is some similarity. Also, the constant repetition of things, typically subtle ie. "the stolen election" and putting misinformation on official websites along with the social media algos giving people only one side of the news (and the leader telling them that any other news they might hear is "fake") is very much like the indoctrination of POWs.

Which is why I'm starting to wonder if the people in the nation that are against all this are taking the exact wrong tact (myself included). It is very easy to argue with them, debate them, and "win" on logic. But, never have I seen any say "you are right, thanks for saving me from my own insanity." Typically, it turns to name-calling. At best and often on this board the "well, I don't like him but l like that policy."

I'm not sure the best way forward but calling them stupid and pointing out the flaws certainly isn't working. My in-laws started watching "News Nation" in place of Fox and they have tempered dramatically. Maybe subtly pointing out the parts most don't like (George Santos, money for Ballroom, murdering people in boats) in place of debating about how the parts they like are being done (ICE, exec orders, trans, etc) may be better.
 
I'm not sure the best way forward but calling them stupid and pointing out the flaws certainly isn't working.
I’ve tried to point this out before.

Remember the discussion about anti-statin here in Northern Michigan? How many would I convince if I simply called them stupid, or treated them as if they were stupid? If I used scare tactics? I mean, we both know that there are all kinds of negative persuasion tactics that just don’t work. But I had the discussion with a patient just yesterday and was frank about the risks and the benefits, and offered him pharmacogenomic testing, told him about how we used to titrate statins and now people start high doses and offered to titrate to minimize adverse effects. He agreed to move forward with me.

“Everyone I disagree with is a Nazi” prevents any reasonable discourse. You can’t persuade someone you can’t talk to.

I think there is a growing number of people like me, disaffected conservatives and centrist liberals who feel abandoned by the two parties. Maybe you are one of us.
 
People joke about "cult" but there is some similarity. Also, the constant repetition of things, typically subtle ie. "the stolen election" and putting misinformation on official websites along with the social media algos giving people only one side of the news (and the leader telling them that any other news they might hear is "fake") is very much like the indoctrination of POWs.
Who's joking about it being a cult? It is a cult.
 
Maybe subtly pointing out the parts most don't like (George Santos, money for Ballroom, murdering people in boats) in place of debating about how the parts they like are being done (ICE, exec orders, trans, etc) may be better.
I wish I could agree, but I have tried with all of these…they don’t seem to care where the $ is coming from for ballroom, they just bring up other “renovations” and they LOVE to bring up Obama’s $370 million renovations (they leave out the part or probably don’t know that it was initiated by Bush and approved under Bush)…killing people they don’t know from another country; meh…Santos, well Biden pardoned ____…
 
I wish I could agree, but I have tried with all of these…they don’t seem to care where the $ is coming from for ballroom, they just bring up other “renovations” and they LOVE to bring up Obama’s $370 million renovations (they leave out the part or probably don’t know that it was initiated by Bush and approved under Bush)…killing people they don’t know from another country; meh…Santos, well Biden pardoned ____…
What is better?

I obviously don’t have the answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PF5
Who's joking about it being a cult? It is a cult.
My brother has voted for Trump three times. When I sent him the story about TrumpRx his response was “how the hell is this guy a Republican?”

My response: “Do you remember me sitting in your living room in the summer of 2016 with Jeff, James, and Roger trying to tell you guys that he was really a liberal New Yorker and that I wanted anyone else?”

Stop calling people cultists. Stop calling people Nazis. Stop calling people stupid. Those strategies didn’t prevent Trump from being elected again, and doubling down won’t prevent Vance from being elected. Try to create cognitive dissonance. That is the only thing that will change their minds. My brother is a pharmacist. I showed him the destruction of our profession at the hands of Trump. You have to create cognitive dissonance where they live and they don’t live in the East Wing of the White House. TrumpRx is where my brother and I live.
 
My brother has voted for Trump three times. When I sent him the story about TrumpRx his response was “how the hell is this guy a Republican?”

My response: “Do you remember me sitting in your living room in the summer of 2016 with Jeff, James, and Roger trying to tell you guys that he was really a liberal New Yorker and that I wanted anyone else?”

Stop calling people cultists. Stop calling people Nazis. Stop calling people stupid. Those strategies didn’t prevent Trump from being elected again, and doubling down won’t prevent Vance from being elected. Try to create cognitive dissonance. That is the only thing that will change their minds. My brother is a pharmacist. I showed him the destruction of our profession at the hands of Trump. You have to create cognitive dissonance where they live and they don’t live in the East Wing of the White House. TrumpRx is where my brother and I live.

You make good points but how do you do they with the person who is saying Reagan was a tariff guy after Trump's temper tantrum yesterday? When evidence isn't good enough because Trump said so. Or the otherwise intelligent, yet diehard republican coworker ending every email with "Thank you for your attention to this matter" now because that's what Trump does?

Honestly, what's the non condescending response to some of that?
 
You make good points but how do you do they with the person who is saying Reagan was a tariff guy after Trump's temper tantrum yesterday? When evidence isn't good enough because Trump said so. Or the otherwise intelligent, yet diehard republican coworker ending every email with "Thank you for your attention to this matter" now because that's what Trump does?

Honestly, what's the non condescending response to some of that?
I don’t have all the answers. The only thing I can tell you is calling him a stupid Nazi cultist will not persuade him. I’ve never taken that tactic with my brother and he is beginning to open his eyes.
 
My brother has voted for Trump three times. When I sent him the story about TrumpRx his response was “how the hell is this guy a Republican?”

My response: “Do you remember me sitting in your living room in the summer of 2016 with Jeff, James, and Roger trying to tell you guys that he was really a liberal New Yorker and that I wanted anyone else?”

Stop calling people cultists. Stop calling people Nazis. Stop calling people stupid. Those strategies didn’t prevent Trump from being elected again, and doubling down won’t prevent Vance from being elected. Try to create cognitive dissonance. That is the only thing that will change their minds. My brother is a pharmacist. I showed him the destruction of our profession at the hands of Trump. You have to create cognitive dissonance where they live and they don’t live in the East Wing of the White House. TrumpRx is where my brother and I live.
I have never called anyone a Nazi, and I don't call them cultists to their face, but that's what it is a cult. I like you and I think we are very similar (my conservative views haven't changed, but I no longer fit what is called conservative). However, please don't lecture me and tell me to not call a duck a duck.
 
I don’t have all the answers. The only thing I can tell you is calling him a stupid Nazi cultist will not persuade him. I’ve never taken that tactic with my brother and he is beginning to open his eyes.

Like @UpGrayedd Double Dose said I don't think anyone serious is calling them that to their face. Im certainly not-usually I try and ignore stuff in most online forums with people I know irl as I don't want to become someone I despise.

Even in toxic discussions on threads I think its important to have some level of civility. But half of those "people" are bots or trolls so its hard to determine who us real, who is listening, and who is 100% agenda driven.

But like he also said sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade. When people were calling Musk out at the inauguration for doing a nazi salute and people were offended, Im not sure how that can be seen as demeaning. In mind if you do something to get a response, don't get upset when you get the response you were going for. That's probably a big part of the issue. Some really bad actors do egregious things and when they are called out for them attempt to normalize the behavior by saying the hate they receive is aimed at everyone who happens to agree with them on a few things. This repeats until people are ok with things they never would have considered a decade ago. It seems like there is a historical precedent for this.
 
Like @UpGrayedd Double Dose said I don't think anyone serious is calling them that to their face. Im certainly not-usually I try and ignore stuff in most online forums with people I know irl as I don't want to become someone I despise.

Even in toxic discussions on threads I think its important to have some level of civility. But half of those "people" are bots or trolls so its hard to determine who us real, who is listening, and who is 100% agenda driven.

But like he also said sometimes you gotta call a spade a spade. When people were calling Musk out at the inauguration for doing a nazi salute and people were offended, Im not sure how that can be seen as demeaning. In mind if you do something to get a response, don't get upset when you get the response you were going for. That's probably a big part of the issue. Some really bad actors do egregious things and when they are called out for them attempt to normalize the behavior by saying the hate they receive is aimed at everyone who happens to agree with them on a few things. This repeats until people are ok with things they never would have considered a decade ago. It seems like there is a historical precedent for this.
If you noticed, I called Musk out too for the salute and the hat. I think both of those things were on purpose. And you’ll also notice in my earlier post I mentioned the naked racism on twitter which, if Musk isn’t promoting he is at least allowing. Like I said, I don’t have all the answers. I only know one thing.
 
You make good points but how do you do they with the person who is saying Reagan was a tariff guy after Trump's temper tantrum yesterday? When evidence isn't good enough because Trump said so. Or the otherwise intelligent, yet diehard republican coworker ending every email with "Thank you for your attention to this matter" now because that's what Trump does?

Honestly, what's the non condescending response to some of that?
ChatGPT (bold and underline is me):

what is the best way to talk with someone who has delusions?

That’s a very thoughtful question — and how you respond to someone with delusions can make a big difference in keeping the conversation calm and supportive.
Here’s a concise, evidence-based approach used in psychiatry and crisis communication:

🧠 1. Stay Calm and Grounded

  • Speak slowly, clearly, and in a neutral tone.
  • Avoid arguing or showing alarm — agitation or disbelief can escalate things.
  • Keep your body language open and non-threatening (e.g., uncrossed arms, relaxed posture).

🗣️ 2. Don’t Confront or “Correct” the Delusion

  • Trying to prove the person wrong usually increases defensiveness.
  • Instead of saying, “That’s not true,”you can say:
    • “I understand that’s how it seems to you.”
    • “That sounds really stressful — I can see this feels real to you.”
  • You’re validating their feelings, not the false belief itself.

💬 3. Reflect and Redirect

  • Show empathy, then gently steer the conversation toward safety or problem-solving.
    • Example: “I can see this is frightening. What do you think might help you feel safer right now?”
  • If possible, focus on shared reality: “I don’t see what you’re describing, but I want to help you feel comfortable.”

👂 4. Listen More Than You Speak

  • Let them express the delusion fully without interruption.
  • Sometimes people reveal emotional distress underneath (fear, shame, loneliness) — that’s often the real target for support.

🧩 5. Prioritize Safety and Trust

  • If there are signs of danger (e.g., voices telling them to harm themselves or others), take it seriously and seek help immediately.
  • Build rapport: small gestures of respect and reliability make future interventions easier.

🩺 6. Encourage Professional Support (Gently)

  • Avoid forcing it. Instead, frame it as care:
    • “You’ve been under a lot of stress — maybe talking with someone experienced in this could help you feel more in control.”

✅ Quick Summary​

Don’tDo
Argue about factsValidate emotions
Mock or jokeListen and stay calm
Dismiss or avoidEngage compassionately
Force insightEncourage gentle support





Are the same methods useful when dealing with people who believe the political misinformation coming from the White House?

That’s a very insightful (and difficult) question — and yes, there’s quite a bit of overlap, but with some key differences in intent and intensity.
When you’re talking with someone who believes political misinformation, you’re not dealing with a psychotic delusion — you’re dealing with motivated reasoning and identity-based belief.
So while confrontation still backfires, the goal isn’t to “treat” the belief but to open space for reflection.
Here’s how the approaches compare and how to adapt them effectively:

🧠 1. Same Foundation: Stay Calm and Respectful

  • Emotional arousal shuts down reasoning; calm dialogue opens it.
  • Avoid sarcasm, ridicule, or “fact-dumps.” They make people double down (a well-known “backfire effect”).
  • Use the same tone you’d use for someone describing a stressful experience, not someone “being wrong.”

💬 2. Acknowledge Values Before Facts

Political misinformation usually ties to a person’s identity, fears, or values (“my team,” “freedom,” “safety,” “fairness”).
  • Start there: “I can see why that issue matters a lot to you.”
  • Once values feel respected, they become more open to re-examining information.

🗣️ 3. Use Curiosity, Not Correction

Instead of, “That’s false,” try:
  • “That’s interesting — where did you hear that?”
  • “How confident are you in that source?”
  • “Would you be open to looking at a few different sources together?”
Curiosity invites collaboration instead of confrontation.

🔍 4. Plant Doubt, Don’t Demand It

The goal isn’t to “win” the argument; it’s to introduce gentle cognitive dissonance:
  • “I used to think that too until I saw X…”
  • “Some people in the administration said Y, but the data from [neutral source] show something else.”
  • Even a pause or “huh, that’s odd” can open the door for later reflection.

🧩 5. Keep Relationships First

If this is someone you care about, preserving trust is more valuable than scoring a factual point.
People rarely change beliefs mid-conversation — but they remember how they felt talking to you. That feeling predicts whether they’ll ever listen again.

🧠 6. Recognize Limits

You can’t reason someone out of a belief they didn’t reason themselves into — but you can create psychological safety for re-evaluation later.
Over time, small nudges from multiple trusted sources (friends, news, experience) matter more than one debate.

✅ Summary: Same Tools, Different Goals​

ContextPrimary GoalEffective Approach
DelusionMaintain safety, reduce distressValidate feelings, avoid confrontation
MisinformationPreserve trust, invite reflectionEmpathy + curiosity + credible sources

 
ChatGPT (bold and underline is me):

what is the best way to talk with someone who has delusions?

That’s a very thoughtful question — and how you respond to someone with delusions can make a big difference in keeping the conversation calm and supportive.
Here’s a concise, evidence-based approach used in psychiatry and crisis communication:

🧠 1. Stay Calm and Grounded

  • Speak slowly, clearly, and in a neutral tone.
  • Avoid arguing or showing alarm — agitation or disbelief can escalate things.
  • Keep your body language open and non-threatening (e.g., uncrossed arms, relaxed posture).

🗣️ 2. Don’t Confront or “Correct” the Delusion

  • Trying to prove the person wrong usually increases defensiveness.
  • Instead of saying, “That’s not true,”you can say:
    • “I understand that’s how it seems to you.”
    • “That sounds really stressful — I can see this feels real to you.”
  • You’re validating their feelings, not the false belief itself.

💬 3. Reflect and Redirect

  • Show empathy, then gently steer the conversation toward safety or problem-solving.
    • Example: “I can see this is frightening. What do you think might help you feel safer right now?”
  • If possible, focus on shared reality: “I don’t see what you’re describing, but I want to help you feel comfortable.”

👂 4. Listen More Than You Speak

  • Let them express the delusion fully without interruption.
  • Sometimes people reveal emotional distress underneath (fear, shame, loneliness) — that’s often the real target for support.

🧩 5. Prioritize Safety and Trust

  • If there are signs of danger (e.g., voices telling them to harm themselves or others), take it seriously and seek help immediately.
  • Build rapport: small gestures of respect and reliability make future interventions easier.

🩺 6. Encourage Professional Support (Gently)

  • Avoid forcing it. Instead, frame it as care:
    • “You’ve been under a lot of stress — maybe talking with someone experienced in this could help you feel more in control.”

✅ Quick Summary​

Don’tDo
Argue about factsValidate emotions
Mock or jokeListen and stay calm
Dismiss or avoidEngage compassionately
Force insightEncourage gentle support





Are the same methods useful when dealing with people who believe the political misinformation coming from the White House?

That’s a very insightful (and difficult) question — and yes, there’s quite a bit of overlap, but with some key differences in intent and intensity.
When you’re talking with someone who believes political misinformation, you’re not dealing with a psychotic delusion — you’re dealing with motivated reasoning and identity-based belief.
So while confrontation still backfires, the goal isn’t to “treat” the belief but to open space for reflection.
Here’s how the approaches compare and how to adapt them effectively:

🧠 1. Same Foundation: Stay Calm and Respectful

  • Emotional arousal shuts down reasoning; calm dialogue opens it.
  • Avoid sarcasm, ridicule, or “fact-dumps.” They make people double down (a well-known “backfire effect”).
  • Use the same tone you’d use for someone describing a stressful experience, not someone “being wrong.”

💬 2. Acknowledge Values Before Facts

Political misinformation usually ties to a person’s identity, fears, or values (“my team,” “freedom,” “safety,” “fairness”).
  • Start there: “I can see why that issue matters a lot to you.”
  • Once values feel respected, they become more open to re-examining information.

🗣️ 3. Use Curiosity, Not Correction

Instead of, “That’s false,” try:
  • “That’s interesting — where did you hear that?”
  • “How confident are you in that source?”
  • “Would you be open to looking at a few different sources together?”
Curiosity invites collaboration instead of confrontation.

🔍 4. Plant Doubt, Don’t Demand It

The goal isn’t to “win” the argument; it’s to introduce gentle cognitive dissonance:
  • “I used to think that too until I saw X…”
  • “Some people in the administration said Y, but the data from [neutral source] show something else.”
  • Even a pause or “huh, that’s odd” can open the door for later reflection.

🧩 5. Keep Relationships First

If this is someone you care about, preserving trust is more valuable than scoring a factual point.
People rarely change beliefs mid-conversation — but they remember how they felt talking to you. That feeling predicts whether they’ll ever listen again.

🧠 6. Recognize Limits

You can’t reason someone out of a belief they didn’t reason themselves into — but you can create psychological safety for re-evaluation later.
Over time, small nudges from multiple trusted sources (friends, news, experience) matter more than one debate.

✅ Summary: Same Tools, Different Goals​

ContextPrimary GoalEffective Approach
DelusionMaintain safety, reduce distressValidate feelings, avoid confrontation
MisinformationPreserve trust, invite reflectionEmpathy + curiosity + credible sources

Oh, Lordy, I have to correct misinformation all the time about metformin. I can’t tell you how many healthcare providers think it harms the kidneys. I even had a nephrologist in Tawas tell a patient that. I wouldn’t have believed it because a nephrologist should know better, but I had a copy of the note. I always start with, “we aren’t going to use Metformin if you are uncomfortable with it because I want you to be 100% onboard with any therapy we use, but there is a lot of misinformation and I want you to know the truth.” Then I explain about renal elimination, adjusting doses, and metabolic acidosis, and how I carefully monitor renal function on all diabetic patients whether they are on Metformin or not. Then I document that they still don’t want to take it.

Or I could just call them stupid and call it a day. The nephrologist was stupid.
 
Well, I'll shut up and get this thread back to what it is supposed to be. But, my point is we are now on year 11 of showing what an idiot that Trump is. And, look at the results. It would be misinformation to try to say that it is working.
Add to it, it makes me a more unpleasant person than I see myself as. Sure, the excuse that it is in response to their behavior is there, but does that really excuse it? No, I don't say things directly very often. Does that matter? Searching someone on the internet is not the least bit difficult.

Again, not trying to claim that I (or @RxCowboy who seems to agree) are right or have the answers. All I know is the course we are on does not look good at all. Continuing what has been failing for a decade can't be the best idea. Do we double down and resist with more than words? I'm not ready for that but worry it is coming. I think Portland sort of showed the best way to disarm is to simply avoid giving any credence to their claims. Fighting against them with logic as good as it feels is exactly what they want as they have great (mis)information control.

 
Well, I'll shut up and get this thread back to what it is supposed to be. But, my point is we are now on year 11 of showing what an idiot that Trump is. And, look at the results. It would be misinformation to try to say that it is working.
Add to it, it makes me a more unpleasant person than I see myself as. Sure, the excuse that it is in response to their behavior is there, but does that really excuse it? No, I don't say things directly very often. Does that matter? Searching someone on the internet is not the least bit difficult.

Again, not trying to claim that I (or @RxCowboy who seems to agree) are right or have the answers. All I know is the course we are on does not look good at all. Continuing what has been failing for a decade can't be the best idea. Do we double down and resist with more than words? I'm not ready for that but worry it is coming. I think Portland sort of showed the best way to disarm is to simply avoid giving any credence to their claims. Fighting against them with logic as good as it feels is exactly what they want as they have great (mis)information control.

Hate is the simplest emotion to embrace. It is not hard to hate. Hate can be accomplished without direct action. Hate does not require complex thought. You can hate yourself. You can hate others. To consistently hate is easy.

Most 4547 cultists are trapped in hate. They don’t want to put in the hard daily work required of a society that values another human no matter how different. Sure they can be kind as long as you look like them or believe like them, but the moment a difference is recognized their attitude shifts.

I desperately want to believe that kindness will win. My faith understanding tells me that in the end kindness/peace/love wins. But days we are living in sure makes me more like Thomas than Mary Magdalene.
 

4. Plant Doubt, Don’t Demand It

The goal isn’t to “win” the argument; it’s to introduce gentle cognitive dissonance:
  • “I used to think that too until I saw X…”
  • “Some people in the administration said Y, but the data from [neutral source] show something else.”
  • Even a pause or “huh, that’s odd” can open the door for later reflection.


This is an interesting point. I don't know that doing this is discussed very much
 
Back
Top