Wind & solar now producing more American electricity than coal for the first time

[andylicious]

Biggest jump in electricity prices in decades is since Uri.....Oklahoma is in a worse boat because gas ran like crazy during the event. There were 4 digit gas indices during Uri in Ok....that is getting recouped and that is the main component in Ok. The other reason for it everywhere is volatility....price blow outs are more common now than they have ever been....you never had blow outs on mild days unless a major generation or transmission event occurred which are rare....spring/fall pretty day pops are routine now. In ERCOT a price pop that got everyone antsy in their trading pantsies was $500. It's in the thousands now. To put that in perspective everything points to it being a ho-hum day and power should average $30 MW/h for the 16 hour peak part of the day......so you sell 500MW/h @ $35 you are gonna make 40 grand it's a good day! Somebody got in a bind and needed power and you made money and didn't break them doing it......now on the same mild day price goes to $1000 for two 15 minute pricing intervals because solar ramped out more quickly than anticipated at sundown or the wind changed or a combo of both.....2 intervals at $1000 adds $30 to the 16 hour peak average for the for day. So because an unpredictable weather hiccup you lose $200K. Risk is through the roof....risk has costs. The reason for that is you used to have baseload generators that could under market rules price the very end of their capacity at higher rates and it was a game of chicken to see who priced them right to get to get the high prices.....get too greedy get left out so it self managed.....now those generators are offline as they have been pushed out by renewables and instead of having stable gen tied to a fuel index you have small fast response resources that can submit....and justify verifiably, that's important they can't just say I want 1M for this MW they have to submit verifiable costs....that respond when the wind suddenly drops or changes direction. These units are deployed to respond rapidly and they have start up costs tied to them. Think of it like paying by use for a car....a car that starts and stops a bunch doesn't last as long as one that sets the cruise at 60 and rarely even has to shift. The parts and maintenance on these turbines is specialized and expensive....have a Acme Q36 Space Modulator you pretty much have to go to Acme for parts and service and good luck insuring one without original manufacturing maintenance agreements.....so every time you hit the button it's say 10K....well that 10K has to be priced into the number of MW's you can make in 15 minutes. So if you have a 25MW turbine and before price changes you can transmit 10MW/Hrs on average from a dead stop to the grid the price starts at $1000/MW before you pay for anything else. And you have to price it off of one interval because price can go from $50 to 1000 back to 100 in that time frame....you hit start and it fired so you are paying the 10K start whether the market supports you for 5 hours or 15 minutes. Say you are buying blocks of power to supply bundles of retail load.....you have to price in the pops or you lose your butt. So the people you pay your bill to used to run analytics and say in the next 12 months power should average X with Y number of pricing intervals being $500......now it's power is gonna average X and I can tie to gas and hedge to ease commodity risk but I have to factor in 5Y intervals of volatility at $1000 due non dispatchable resources......and now the credit costs for this deal have increased.....so the costs are way up. Or you sell a renewable product at the retail level and forecast changed over night and you aren't going to be producing....you now have to buy in a sellers spot market to cover so you have to price that premium into the plan and there are less places to buy so......

And all that doesn't factor into the complete crashing of capacity markets for ISO's that have them.....capacity markets were the steady cash flow for generators....renewables with negative costs have crushed those markets so now that income has to be priced into MW/h cost to produce. Renewable resources can bid their entire capacity into auctions and produce only a fraction of the time without penalty because markets are incentivizing renewable generation and as they say "we can't control the weather"......thermal plants have to be able to produce their submitted capacity values at all times (except approved outage times) or face big penalties....like the bankrupt you kind. The penalties are ramped up during scarcity or the smart hours.

The bill is coming for all this stuff that will never work on a large scale.

we are in Never Never Land and customers don’t realize they are the commodity not the electricity

 

[Pokey]

Wholly inaccurate? I’m not lying. My power production understanding is limited compared to yours, I’ll admit I’m a firm believer that if it weren’t for the darn corporation commission we’d be fleeced to death already. When it comes to monopolies they don’t want anymore but IMO act more like biased referees far too often. The corporations never lose, nor do their stock holders. The fact that they allow utilities to drag their heals on progress, don’t adequately protect the consumer from poor market and management decisions, and don’t have to show any accountability for cash flow to individual consumers has convinced me of near collusion. I hope Gentner Drummond has some luck getting some portion of our money back from speculators and hedge fund managers. By the way our lowest electric bill for the year runs about $180 that’s $45 each at Chilies for a family of four. We’ve lost nearly $1000 in freezer foods to power outages, yet I’m sure stock holders got paid. I’ve had a power surge or low voltage take out a new tv, when I called they said they could put a monitor on my home for a very short time (24 hours) and if, and only if something they determined was wrong, during that brief window, would they consider replacement.Man Donnyboy you are in a well protected industry and by the sound of it nothing is going to change anytime soon. About a month ago during a two week period without poor weather our generator ran off and on for 15 hours due to OG&E upgrading where our power comes into our addition. Can’t wait to see the electric bill(guarantee they’ll be no discount),and gas bill. Four hours was the longest time. I’m sure people lost food again. Can I send my gas bill to the electric company for payment? Still think alternative energy sources are worth pursuing. Have had now to go with my whine. Thanks

 

[Donnyboy]

So inaccurate and dishonest are different things.... I don't think you are lying I don't think you understand what you are talking about as it pertains to the situations you are describing.

The glaring one is reserves....you make it sound like it's waste and corporations are benefitting. Reserves are mandated and they are absolutely needed. As I said if you build you an off grid system you have to keep some reserve capacity or you are tripping your system every time your AC kicks on and the in rush current hits it. You were saying utilities should let you do this or that when in most cases you can absolutely do this or that or didn't understand that some of the things you are complaining about is why you have power the overwhelming majority of the time.

You reference corporations never lose and greedy hedge funds....I can name you tons of corps that have lost, it happens all the time.

The grid's job is to be reliable. And it's great at it. The rules of the entire sector are set up first and foremost for safe reliable operations and they can force those greedy corps to lose money in the name of it. It's the largest most complex machine in the world it stretches from Alaska and Canada to Mexico and Florida and has millions of moving parts it is required to operate 24/7/365 and has an availability over decades in the high 90s% through every kind of storm and weather from 115 degrees to negative winter storms. Grid operators are better at what they do than anyone in the world.....I'm not on the grid operations side that's not me tooting my horn. The grid and the companies associated with it aren't afraid of progress. While being in constant use it has completely changed in the last 30 years in the way its operated, monitored, through changes in technology, through entire new homeland security measures, and generation technology changes. It didn't/doesn't need to be fixed. It provides what has modernized the world at costs less than routine discretionary expenditures. But.....in the last decade or so we have ignored reliability standards and proper grid planning to hook up generation technology that is at best reliable 50% of the time.....cannot be dispatched and cannot support grid operations. And that is why your cost are going way up and reliability is dropping. People died here in texas during Uri.....that would not have happened if the people that know what they are doing set up the grid and didn't have unreliable assets pushed down their throats by people that can't explain a simple circuit. I worked for a company that shut down 7.8 Gigs of thermal to go to wind and thats one company.....do you think Texas would have been better off 7.8 gigs of actual usable power during Uri than it's 38 gig wind fleet that was producing less than 1 during the storm? I bet the loved ones of the dead folks do. You may have to deal with a 4 hour outage to update/repair a line and there may be a power surge but for the most part you get what runs your climate control, modern health care devices, running water, communication, traffic control signals, food prep and storage 97-98% of the time for a couple hundred bucks a month and people complain about it constantly based on sophistry at best and out right dishonesty other times that they hear from the uninformed. My kids basketball shoes that he will probably out grow during the season cost more than my light bill......some months is as much taxes as actual juice. Renewables are not and will not be the answer. Full stop. That isn't to say we shouldn't be pushing for cleaner more efficient power sources but to say we need to quit breaking what didn't need fixing and figure this out since it is integral to life as we know it. And the tide is turning balancing authorities are now making changes to increase thermal gen even backed by federal programs from a progressive white house......the writing is on the wall now. But until then.....higher bills and more outages.

 

[Pokey]

So inaccurate and dishonest are different things.... I don't think you are lying I don't think you understand what you are talking about as it pertains to the situations you are describing.

The glaring one is reserves....you make it sound like it's waste and corporations are benefitting. Reserves are mandated and they are absolutely needed. As I said if you build you an off grid system you have to keep some reserve capacity or you are tripping your system every time your AC kicks on and the in rush current hits it. You were saying utilities should let you do this or that when in most cases you can absolutely do this or that or didn't understand that some of the things you are complaining about is why you have power the overwhelming majority of the time.

You reference corporations never lose and greedy hedge funds....I can name you tons of corps that have lost, it happens all the time.

The grid's job is to be reliable. And it's great at it. The rules of the entire sector are set up first and foremost for safe reliable operations and they can force those greedy corps to lose money in the name of it. It's the largest most complex machine in the world it stretches from Alaska and Canada to Mexico and Florida and has millions of moving parts it is required to operate 24/7/365 and has an availability over decades in the high 90s% through every kind of storm and weather from 115 degrees to negative winter storms. Grid operators are better at what they do than anyone in the world.....I'm not on the grid operations side that's not me tooting my horn. The grid and the companies associated with it aren't afraid of progress. While being in constant use it has completely changed in the last 30 years in the way its operated, monitored, through changes in technology, through entire new homeland security measures, and generation technology changes. It didn't/doesn't need to be fixed. It provides what has modernized the world at costs less than routine discretionary expenditures. But.....in the last decade or so we have ignored reliability standards and proper grid planning to hook up generation technology that is at best reliable 50% of the time.....cannot be dispatched and cannot support grid operations. And that is why your cost are going way up and reliability is dropping. People died here in texas during Uri.....that would not have happened if the people that know what they are doing set up the grid and didn't have unreliable assets pushed down their throats by people that can't explain a simple circuit. I worked for a company that shut down 7.8 Gigs of thermal to go to wind and thats one company.....do you think Texas would have been better off 7.8 gigs of actual usable power during Uri than it's 38 gig wind fleet that was producing less than 1 during the storm? I bet the loved ones of the dead folks do. You may have to deal with a 4 hour outage to update/repair a line and there may be a power surge but for the most part you get what runs your climate control, modern health care devices, running water, communication, traffic control signals, food prep and storage 97-98% of the time for a couple hundred bucks a month and people complain about it constantly based on sophistry at best and out right dishonesty other times that they hear from the uninformed. My kids basketball shoes that he will probably out grow during the season cost more than my light bill......some months is as much taxes as actual juice. Renewables are not and will not be the answer. Full stop. That isn't to say we shouldn't be pushing for cleaner more efficient power sources but to say we need to quit breaking what didn't need fixing and figure this out since it is integral to life as we know it. And the tide is turning balancing authorities are now making changes to increase thermal gen even backed by federal programs from a progressive white house......the writing is on the wall now. But until then.....higher bills and more outages.

Don’t get me wrong, I really appreciate your information packed responses. I certainly acknowledge your superior knowledge on the subject. Believe it or not you’ve taught me things. Thanks. But you say, “Renewables are not and will not be the answer. Full stop.”
Frankly that sounds exactly like the attitude from my late brother. He vowed socialized medicine and negotiating with big pharma for drug prices would never change. He saw both getting rolling before he died. Granted you promote the corporate lines, and feel confident in your position. But you sound like tobacco executives before the SHTF. As prices come down for residential alternative electricity, more people will purchase it thus reducing dependence on big power. I think advancing battery technology could solve the reserve problems. There are micro grids going up around the country, Tesla and others are offering home packages with whole house lithium battery packs. With home charging even your car could help eliminate the need for the dumb grid to a degree. I know I’ve bought the utopian vision. IMO with the addition of iron/air batteries they’ll be plenty that get off the grid. Sustainability efforts will continue regardless of major power production IMO. I believe it would be totally awesome to be personally energy independent, and I’m not alone. If enough people work toward sustainability and independence maybe we don’t have to build more fossil fueled thermal power plants. I may not see it in my lifetime, but some of the major pieces are emerging now. I think most people would like to give our children and grandchildren a more stable world. The last time we spoke on this subject, I thought you agreed that the combination of lithium and these new stackable iron/air batteries could solve most of the problems of which you speak. Guess I misunderstood. Glad I haven’t invested anything but time in such worthless technology since in my lifetime it won’t or can’t improve reserves and increase reliability and not be the cause all this grid failure and price gouging. Drill baby drill ! Burn baby burn! Tear down those bird and grid killing ugly turbines! To hell with photovoltaics. Progress it seems, is maintaining the status quo. Thanks for bursting my imaginary hope bubble. It was totally naive of me to believe that people might put the future of the planet above profit. Of course, somewhat hypocritically, I was looking to profit from getting in near the ground floor of a technology I stupidly thought might change the game. Maybe I should look into coal.

 

[Donnyboy]

The difference I see in your analogy here is you can be for total socialized medicine and I can be staunchly against it but what we are talking about is the same care just how we receive and pay for it. What I am saying with this is renewables wont work because it's like saying modern medicine is the best in the world so let's convert to 100% homeopathic methods. And there is some value to some of those cures....but if I have a rash on my butt that a pill and steriod cream will knock it a couple days I don't want to have to soak in some oatmeal bath and apply a series of expensive salves three times a day for two months to do the same....and if god forbid I need a tumor removed I wont a doctor that can get it out now not hope the wind blows a salve up. Weather isn't reliable.....so no generation associated it will be either, ever, that's not a hurdle we are ever getting over I can't tell you if we are going to be able to convert 2MW wind turbines to 10 or increase photocells by 50% in the coming years but I can tell you we won't control the weather. Physics plays in here some you aren't getting around until our understanding of the established science changes or we spend T - trillions on work arounds. I gave a real time example in an early post ERCOT has 151K installed capacity. Based on a favorable example you would have needed 400K to make it through Tuesday and battery back up at least 4:1 ratio under currently technology and even with Iron/Air at least 2:1 (which as we discussed would be vastly superior to current builds) so 1.2 to 2M of installed capacity for one state......that isn't realistic. And the biggest sophistry of all this is that it's been better for the environment. The land and materials to do that isn't environmentally friendly....you would not want to have to migrate south across that gauntlet or be a kid at the mine needed to install 1M/state. We make completely ignorant claims like "carbon neutral by 2050" and stuff something we won't achieve without completely changing every facet of life and that has no real plan or cost tied to it in anyway....it's just a slogan that if you don't get behind you are a climate denier. Then we look at what we can do now not a serious look at what we should do.....we don't say greenhouse gases are a problem what can we do make our footprint as low as we can and change global practices...no we say wind turbines don't make carbon let's throw up 40K worth in Texas as fast as we can and make the grid unstable and if some folks die it's collateral damage. What we could have done is said we are going to shutdown all coal and liquid fuel burning stations with modern efficient gas turbines by 2015....that's right that could have been done years ago....we are going to modernize electric generation in emerging nations and equip them with latest environmental controls as this is a global problem....start a robust nuclear program building modular installations like are/have been operating on ships all over the world safely for a longer term solution.....develop hydrogen and even ammonia technology to make it cost efficient for modern turbines further lowering the footprint and demand on fuels......and do the best we can for planet till someone solves fusion or another technology down the line. That would have eliminated more greenhouse gasses, improved reliability, and lowered costs than everything we have done with renewables several times over....and been cheaper. Instead we labeled "green" good fuel bad and kept ancient coal and oil plants running for high demand...we let "green" producers skirt reliability and marketing rules (there is no such thing as 100% renewable plan....in fact as far as greedy corps you are helping them more while doing nothing for the environment with these as they don't have to deliver renewable energy just purchase renewable credits which aren't tied to real MW production but hypothetical production and traded in secondary markets) The greedy energy companies would love nothing more than for wind to be the answer......quick to develop and build, built in mainly economically depressed areas that want any form of tax help so less community resistance, subsidized assets that don't burn fuel so no commodity cost or risk, require hardly any staffing again mainly in rural areas so you can pay low wages, and a monkey can manage the oversight of......that's an energy company's wet dream...you have Pokey's Power and you have 8000 MW portfolio of generation you have 600-1000 maybe more employees......switch to wind you could do with 50-100 and cut your average salary number in half at the same time. It just doesn't work.....and it isn't new so it's not like "we don't know what it can do yet" pilot small wind mills were tested for connection in the 80's....the first large 80 meter tower farms were up in scale mid to late 90's so we are decades in here. In the same time frame gas turbines have gone from 8-9 heat rate measures of efficiency to some in the 6's meaning they burn 30% less fuel for the same result and exhaust profiles with half the emissions even before secondary control systems. Again we have done LESS for the planet than we could, are experiencing serious reliability issues, and have driven up costs for something that will never be a real solution. It needed to be explored....the technology needed to be tested.....but after decades of trying, higher outage numbers, and some deaths we need to quit racing down this dead end. Not for status quo or because it's easier but because it's the right thing to do for the planet and us.

 

[Pokey]

The difference I see in your analogy here is you can be for total socialized medicine and I can be staunchly against it but what we are talking about is the same care just how we receive and pay for it. What I am saying with this is renewables wont work because it's like saying modern medicine is the best in the world so let's convert to 100% homeopathic methods. And there is some value to some of those cures....but if I have a rash on my butt that a pill and steriod cream will knock it a couple days I don't want to have to soak in some oatmeal bath and apply a series of expensive salves three times a day for two months to do the same....and if god forbid I need a tumor removed I wont a doctor that can get it out now not hope the wind blows a salve up. Weather isn't reliable.....so no generation associated it will be either, ever, that's not a hurdle we are ever getting over I can't tell you if we are going to be able to convert 2MW wind turbines to 10 or increase photocells by 50% in the coming years but I can tell you we won't control the weather. Physics plays in here some you aren't getting around until our understanding of the established science changes or we spend T - trillions on work arounds. I gave a real time example in an early post ERCOT has 151K installed capacity. Based on a favorable example you would have needed 400K to make it through Tuesday and battery back up at least 4:1 ratio under currently technology and even with Iron/Air at least 2:1 (which as we discussed would be vastly superior to current builds) so 1.2 to 2M of installed capacity for one state......that isn't realistic. And the biggest sophistry of all this is that it's been better for the environment. The land and materials to do that isn't environmentally friendly....you would not want to have to migrate south across that gauntlet or be a kid at the mine needed to install 1M/state. We make completely ignorant claims like "carbon neutral by 2050" and stuff something we won't achieve without completely changing every facet of life and that has no real plan or cost tied to it in anyway....it's just a slogan that if you don't get behind you are a climate denier. Then we look at what we can do now not a serious look at what we should do.....we don't say greenhouse gases are a problem what can we do make our footprint as low as we can and change global practices...no we say wind turbines don't make carbon let's throw up 40K worth in Texas as fast as we can and make the grid unstable and if some folks die it's collateral damage. What we could have done is said we are going to shutdown all coal and liquid fuel burning stations with modern efficient gas turbines by 2015....that's right that could have been done years ago....we are going to modernize electric generation in emerging nations and equip them with latest environmental controls as this is a global problem....start a robust nuclear program building modular installations like are/have been operating on ships all over the world safely for a longer term solution.....develop hydrogen and even ammonia technology to make it cost efficient for modern turbines further lowering the footprint and demand on fuels......and do the best we can for planet till someone solves fusion or another technology down the line. That would have eliminated more greenhouse gasses, improved reliability, and lowered costs than everything we have done with renewables several times over....and been cheaper. Instead we labeled "green" good fuel bad and kept ancient coal and oil plants running for high demand...we let "green" producers skirt reliability and marketing rules (there is no such thing as 100% renewable plan....in fact as far as greedy corps you are helping them more while doing nothing for the environment with these as they don't have to deliver renewable energy just purchase renewable credits which aren't tied to real MW production but hypothetical production and traded in secondary markets) The greedy energy companies would love nothing more than for wind to be the answer......quick to develop and build, built in mainly economically depressed areas that want any form of tax help so less community resistance, subsidized assets that don't burn fuel so no commodity cost or risk, require hardly any staffing again mainly in rural areas so you can pay low wages, and a monkey can manage the oversight of......that's an energy company's wet dream...you have Pokey's Power and you have 8000 MW portfolio of generation you have 600-1000 maybe more employees......switch to wind you could do with 50-100 and cut your average salary number in half at the same time. It just doesn't work.....and it isn't new so it's not like "we don't know what it can do yet" pilot small wind mills were tested for connection in the 80's....the first large 80 meter tower farms were up in scale mid to late 90's so we are decades in here. In the same time frame gas turbines have gone from 8-9 heat rate measures of efficiency to some in the 6's meaning they burn 30% less fuel for the same result and exhaust profiles with half the emissions even before secondary control systems. Again we have done LESS for the planet than we could, are experiencing serious reliability issues, and have driven up costs for something that will never be a real solution. It needed to be explored....the technology needed to be tested.....but after decades of trying, higher outage numbers, and some deaths we need to quit racing down this dead end. Not for status quo or because it's easier but because it's the right thing to do for the planet and us.

Thanks again. I’ll just buy iodine tablets to protect ourselves from radiation leakage from nuclear reactors, and spent fuel rods. Hope old power plant operators and owners choose to believe retro fitting them with high efficiency gas turbines is cost effective, as I continue to strive for more self sufficiency, and pray that you all are smart enough citizens of the world to figure out how to keep up with ever increasing demand. All these new electric vehicles coming out are already being set up for failure by having to be dependent on the infrastructure of the grid. Damn these new products are seemingly bad and have nothing to do with solving any problem but creating them. I need two shots of Irish on the rocks! Cheers!

 

[Donnyboy]

Thanks again. I’ll just buy iodine tablets to protect ourselves from radiation leakage from nuclear reactors, and spent fuel rods. Hope old power plant operators and owners choose to believe retro fitting them with high efficiency gas turbines is cost effective, as I continue to strive for more self sufficiency, and pray that you all are smart enough citizens of the world to figure out how to keep up with ever increasing demand. All these new electric vehicles coming out are already being set up for failure by having to be dependent on the infrastructure of the grid. Damn these new products are seemingly bad and have nothing to do with solving any problem but creating them. I need two shots of Irish on the rocks! Cheers!

Electric vehicles (which I'm in favor of)....perfect example. California decrees no new vehicles with tailpipe emissions by 2035 with no actual budgeted deliverable plan for a charging network or generation planned to cover the load in a state with routine rolling black outs and brown outs that is sucking the western half of the united states dry of resources but won't let any thermal generation be built in the state......If they keep that coal plant going in Nevada it does nothing to the Earth's atmosphere though. But if you are a politician who has zero understanding of the situation it sounds great to get re-elected....but not to say we need X gigs of new build and X billion in transmission upgrades which will increase your monthly bill X%

Then everyone will blame "the grid"

 

[Midnight Toker]

Electric vehicles (which I'm in favor of)....perfect example. California decrees no new vehicles with tailpipe emissions by 2035 with no actual budgeted deliverable plan for a charging network or generation planned to cover the load in a state with routine rolling black outs and brown outs that is sucking the western half of the united states dry of resources but won't let any thermal generation be built in the state......If they keep that coal plant going in Nevada it does nothing to the Earth's atmosphere though. But if you are a politician who has zero understanding of the situation it sounds great to get re-elected....but not to say we need X gigs of new build and X billion in transmission upgrades which will increase your monthly bill X%

Then everyone will blame "the grid"

This would be only for new cars, as most people still buy used. so nobody will be forced to drive EV if they dont want to. With this implementation I can see the older crowd of people (by 2035, gen Xers) having a lower adoption rate to new tech, so the percentage of used car buyers would increase. I looked it up and the state of CA sells, on average, 1.6 million new cars each year. CA has 14-15 million registered cars, so maybe 10% of cars in CA on any given day would be new, and in this case Electric. and that would increase every year.

So it wont be such a big issue by 2035. Sure, assuming we have 15 million electric cars sucking off the grid every day, yeah that would be a drain, not enough infrastructure right now. hell at any given moment, we dont have enough gas or pumps to fill every gas tank in the US. But it's not a big deal because most people dont empty and fill their tanks every day. but a decade from now? maybe Electric infrastructure will be better. infrastructure demands will increase with the demand for EV charging. if more folks are buying EV (about 10% of registered cars in CA are EV right now) there will be more investment in infrastructure to support it. which has been the case over the last ten years. As of right now there is plenty of infrastructure for the the 1.6 or so million EV in CA today, and growing steadily. We will adjust with the times.

CA in general is an outlier though with their massive population and demand on their electric grid as it is. they are a highly saturated population. not so in many parts of the US. I am an EV owner, since 2018 and lemme tell ya, it's been the best car I have ever had. I really love this thing. I cant properly express the delight I have in how cheap it is to own.

 

[steross]

Biggest jump in electricity prices in decades is since Uri.....Oklahoma is in a worse boat because gas ran like crazy during the event. There were 4 digit gas indices during Uri in Ok....that is getting recouped and that is the main component in Ok. The other reason for it everywhere is volatility....price blow outs are more common now than they have ever been....you never had blow outs on mild days unless a major generation or transmission event occurred which are rare....spring/fall pretty day pops are routine now.

 

[GOGETUMPOKE]

View attachment 3310View attachment 3311View attachment 3312

 

[Polds4OSU]

So, Joe Biden killed the Electric Vehicle Industry. Wonder how many Oklahoma Republics are going to swallow their Pride and stand up and cheer this move by Biden and are willing to thank Joe Biden for it ?

Joe Biden vetoes electric vehicle bill in a move Elon Musk warns will 'demolish' industry​

President Biden vetoed on a bipartisan resolution that aimed to reverse the administration's decision to waive "Buy America" requirements for taxpayer-funded electric vehicle (EV) charging stations.

This veto, marked by staunch opposition from Republican lawmakers, has drawn sharp criticism from industry leaders and experts, including Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who warns of dire consequences for the EV sector.



The resolution, crafted by Marco Rubio and others, sought to overturn the Department of Transportation's (DOT) Waiver of Buy America Requirements for Electric Vehicle Chargers, arguing that the waiver disproportionately favors Chinese manufacturers dominating the EV charger supply chain.

However, President Biden stood firm in his decision, citing concerns about the potential adverse impact on critical industries and job creation in the United States.

"If enacted, this resolution would harm my Administration's efforts to encourage investment in critical industries and bring high-quality jobs back to the United States," Biden said in a statement on Wednesday.



He continued: "It would not only thwart the collective goal of the Congress and the Administration to establish a domestic EV charger manufacturing industry, but it would also delay the significant progress being made by my Administration and the States in establishing the EV charging network."


Biden reiterated his administration's commitment to bolstering domestic manufacturing and fostering resilient supply chains, citing the importance of maintaining efforts to bring critical manufacturing processes back to the United States.

Despite assertions from the president, critics, including Musk, warn of potential repercussions for the EV industry.



Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, cautioned against the veto's ramifications, emphasizing the threat posed by Chinese automakers in the absence of trade barriers.

"If there are no trade barriers established, they will pretty much demolish most other car companies in the world," he said. "They're extremely good."

"The completeness and resilience of China's multi-decade state-directed battery materials processing infrastructure build-out is biting hard," said Ross Gregory, a partner at Melbourne-based consultant New Electric Partners.

The Senate's passage of the resolution in November, followed by the House's approval in January, highlighted bipartisan concerns over the waiver's implications.


Nevertheless, the administration's push to expand EV manufacturing and charging infrastructure remains steadfast, with goals set to construct a nationwide network of EV chargers and significantly increase electric vehicle sales by 2030.