I hope this is the case. I'm all for that.
US continues to go backward...
- Thread starter PF5
- Start date
It is the case.
BDS and Type II TDS at a MTG level of hysteria.
The US failed to track more than $1 billion in military gear given Ukraine, Pentagon watchdog says
Shortfalls in monitoring by American officials mean the U.S. cannot account for more than $1 billion in weapons and military equipment provided to Ukraine to fight invading Russian forces.
apnews.com
We don't know what the case is as we don't know where over half of the weapons sent are.
It's an awful situation. It's just a massive mess that will cost us billions and without direct engagement Russia will win. I have no idea what the right thing to do is because we are already in for a penny so we kind of have to be for a pound now.....but the pounds are adding up past the point of what we can do. The bill on this if we are to support Ukraine to a victory....even partial....is just getting going.
mugatu
Ranger
Old Patriot Pac 2 missiles and replacing with newer Pac 3. Old Strykers, Bradleys and Humvees are replaced with updated versions with better communication systems and the newer JLTV. Old AMRAAM I'm sure are getting used up and replaced as well. HIMARS have been using older missiles so those are getting replaced with newer longer range versions. Etc etc.
All the money to replace the equipment goes to OUR industrial base and OUR workers. Yeah, Lockheed, Raytheon, and so on are making a killing but all their supply spending trickles to other businesses and areas of the economy.
The downsidisI see is its pumping government money into our economy so I'm sure it contributes to overall inflation to some extent.
mugatu
Ranger
DOD fails audits
The US failed to track more than $1 billion in military gear given Ukraine, Pentagon watchdog says
Shortfalls in monitoring by American officials mean the U.S. cannot account for more than $1 billion in weapons and military equipment provided to Ukraine to fight invading Russian forces.
We don't know what the case is as we don't know where over half of the weapons sent are.
It's an awful situation. It's just a massive mess that will cost us billions and without direct engagement Russia will win. I have no idea what the right thing to do is because we are already in for a penny so we kind of have to be for a pound now.....but the pounds are adding up past the point of what we can do. The bill on this if we are to support Ukraine to a victory....even partial....is just getting going.
They suck at passing audits in general. So we dont know where our own money has gone.
mugatu
Ranger
@GOGETUMPOKE
Why the laugh? Do you disagree that replacing and updating our arsenal is a net benefit to our military?
Why the laugh? Do you disagree that replacing and updating our arsenal is a net benefit to our military?
Are we upgrading our weapons? Maybe. So what would we be doing with our arsenal if this conflict didn't exist? Would it just be sitting there going obsolete. Why isn't upgrading and replacing our arsenal included in the $1 trillion DOD budget already? So I have one missile and I send it to Ukraine and now I have no missiles. But its ok because I'm going to buy a better missile to replace the old one. And somehow the only effect this bullshit math is going to have is maybe a little bit of inflation? You make it sound like we're actually MAKING money on this conflict. Heck, if we could just get Putin to invade a couple more countries we might get a good chunk of our deficit whittled down. It's ridiculous. We've allocated somewhere around $200 billion to this conflict alone and now we are funding both sides of the Israel\Palestine pissing match to assure that it won't end quickly and the facet is barely a trickle compared to what we all know it will be eventually. I read yesterday that the Pentagon can't account for 63% of their expenditures
.
I hope this is a silly question...but some of you do realize that we're not just air dropping billions of dollars into Ukraine, right? We're not handing out cash to people there.
I do believe it's a grift of the highest order, but by the military industrial complex. Lockheed, Raytheon, Boeing, et al. are probably wiping their butts with tax payers $100's right now. Problem is, I don't know what choice we have. It's the system that's been built. Can't very well let Putin just take whatever he wants (no matter what MAGA would have you believe, he's not a hero).
But Gogetum, I think you and I finally agree on something: Our military spending is WAY out of control. It should be drastically reduced so we can use those funds on social programs that serve our citizens (like funding for veterans).
I do believe it's a grift of the highest order, but by the military industrial complex. Lockheed, Raytheon, Boeing, et al. are probably wiping their butts with tax payers $100's right now. Problem is, I don't know what choice we have. It's the system that's been built. Can't very well let Putin just take whatever he wants (no matter what MAGA would have you believe, he's not a hero).
But Gogetum, I think you and I finally agree on something: Our military spending is WAY out of control. It should be drastically reduced so we can use those funds on social programs that serve our citizens (like funding for veterans).
We passed more money to send to Ukraine in the last package than we spend to feed children at schools. Like I said I don’t have THE answer but that doesn’t seem right. I also get very nervous when hawkish Reps hate war and Dems love the military complex. I have zero trust of either side.
I also think Russia will put their folks in bread lines before they retreat and we will DoorDash on the credit card till the economy collapses.
I also think Russia will put their folks in bread lines before they retreat and we will DoorDash on the credit card till the economy collapses.
mugatu
Ranger
Yep. Pentagon can't account for huge amounts of money. I literally just linked an article about them failing their 6th consecutive audit.Are we upgrading our weapons? Maybe. So what would we be doing with our arsenal if this conflict didn't exist? Would it just be sitting there going obsolete. Why isn't upgrading and replacing our arsenal included in the $1 trillion DOD budget already? So I have one missile and I send it to Ukraine and now I have no missiles. But its ok because I'm going to buy a better missile to replace the old one. And somehow the only effect this bullshit math is going to have is maybe a little bit of inflation? You make it sound like we're actually MAKING money on this conflict. Heck, if we could just get Putin to invade a couple more countries we might get a good chunk of our deficit whittled down. It's ridiculous. We've allocated somewhere around $200 billion to this conflict alone and now we are funding both sides of the Israel\Palestine pissing match to assure that it won't end quickly and the facet is barely a trickle compared to what we all know it will be eventually. I read yesterday that the Pentagon can't account for 63% of their expenditures
You've obviously never dealt with DOD. As far as our arsenal goes. If we weren't sending things to Ukraine, the expendables would sit in warehouses and slowly be used in training. We don't budget to fully replace every weapon when an upgrade is available. Certain numbers get the upgrades or are built new to current requirements but lots just sit and wait. It's too expensive to constantly upgrade everything and that would have big impacts on fielding new systems. It also costs money to purge stocks to make room for upgrades.
All my experience is USN so I'm not sure how the Army does things but I'm sure it's similar. There are large numbers of proposed and needed upgrades to equipment that never happen due to cost to acquire and develop. It's hard to cancel program acquisitions to buy more weapons when you have wherehouses full of them (although older). This forces the money to be made available to do those new purchases without killing our own budget.
I am not a fan of supporting Isreal with weapons donations, that is a VERY different scenario.
What are you talking about with Putin invading more countries helping us work the deficit down? Where did I say we were making money on this? I said we are spending money inside our own country and it's going to our own industry and people. It's pumping money into our economy but it's all deficit money.
States don't want the money to feed the kids (at least over the Summer) . They are Rejecting it. AND during the Pandemic Congress had passed funding for ALL school lunches to be paid for by the US Govt and then Congress voted to end that Program in June 2023.
Biden administration to provide summer grocery money to 21 million kids.
Some states chose not to participate this summer, although others are expected to join the program in 2025. The states that won't offer the extra food aid this summer are: Alabama, Alaska, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Vermont and Wyoming.The states have different reasons for not participating, with Nebraska, Iowa and Oklahoma citing existing programs that already feed children during the summer as reasons not to join Summer EBT.
Implementing a Summer EBT program this year was "not feasible" in Texas, state Health and Human Services Commission spokesperson Thomas Vasquez said in a statement to the AP. He said that was due to USDA guidance coming in late December, "the level of effort needed" to start a new program and the need for the state legislature to approve money for it.
Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt said in a statement that he doesn't want "a single Oklahoma child to go hungry, and I'll keep working to accomplish that, but large, duplicative federal programs don't accomplish that goal."
"They cause more bureaucracy for families to wade through," he added.
All 50 states already administer the Summer Food Service Program, which provides sites where kids can eat for free. But Vilsack said he's worried it doesn't "provide the help for all the children, no matter how well-intentioned it is."
"For the life of me I don't see why 50 governors aren't doing (Summer EBT)," Vilsack said, "but we're happy that 35 are, we're happy that territories are in and we're happy that the tribes are continuing to work with us."
On top of that during the Pandemic the Govt paid for ALL School Lunches for ALL students but Congress Voted to end that in June 2023 and now states are on the hook for $19 million in School Lunch Debt owed.
Congress got rid of a free lunch for all program. That means some students are going hungry
Students\u00a0are back to racking up lunch debt this school year after federal\u00a0legislation that provided free meals to all students expired.
www.usatoday.com
School lunches aren't a Good comparison for Ukraine Funding.
1. The US Govt IS offering money to continue to pay for school lunches even through the Summer time....and 15 states rejected it
2. The US Govt DID pay for ALL school lunches for several Years and then Congress Voted to Cut it and end that
mugatu
Ranger
Completely agree. Funding for education and other services is ridiculously low and passes me off. It would also solve the homeless issue in one fell swoop.
Yes, defense contractors are fleecing the gov. The amount they charge for the smallest task is crazy. Acquisition process is beyond broken and pisses me off constantly. Contractors are paid to deliver a box, then often paid to fix it and make meet the requirements they were given. It's complete BS.
It stems from federal government divestment many decades ago pushing more to civilian companies vs government labs and facilities. Then allowing and encouraging the companies to merge and thereby reduce competition in the late 90s. As with everything else, they claim if the process changes they won't be able to survive missing program selections or cancelations. Its one reason I never believe industries that claim something will prevent them from being able to be successful. They lie to keep the status quo or help themselves.
Found a table we spent 28B as of 22......we just approved 65B for Ukraine and that's just this payment.....anyone else with kids get free lunches during the pandemic cause I don't know of a kid that wasn't qualified for low income lunches that did granted mostly red states but my family in CO paid for lunches during the pandemic even did a parent initiative to pay off any outstanding bills of students that struggled.....either way for the difference we could remove hurdles that school systems face, and that is a valid thing, or at a minimum provide much better quality meals. It's one example pick from the 100s of others.States don't want the money to feed the kids (at least over the Summer) . They are Rejecting it. AND during the Pandemic Congress had passed funding for ALL school lunches to be paid for by the US Govt and then Congress voted to end that Program in June 2023.
Biden administration to provide summer grocery money to 21 million kids.
Some states chose not to participate this summer, although others are expected to join the program in 2025. The states that won't offer the extra food aid this summer are: Alabama, Alaska, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Vermont and Wyoming.
The states have different reasons for not participating, with Nebraska, Iowa and Oklahoma citing existing programs that already feed children during the summer as reasons not to join Summer EBT.
Implementing a Summer EBT program this year was "not feasible" in Texas, state Health and Human Services Commission spokesperson Thomas Vasquez said in a statement to the AP. He said that was due to USDA guidance coming in late December, "the level of effort needed" to start a new program and the need for the state legislature to approve money for it.
Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt said in a statement that he doesn't want "a single Oklahoma child to go hungry, and I'll keep working to accomplish that, but large, duplicative federal programs don't accomplish that goal."
"They cause more bureaucracy for families to wade through," he added.
All 50 states already administer the Summer Food Service Program, which provides sites where kids can eat for free. But Vilsack said he's worried it doesn't "provide the help for all the children, no matter how well-intentioned it is."
"For the life of me I don't see why 50 governors aren't doing (Summer EBT)," Vilsack said, "but we're happy that 35 are, we're happy that territories are in and we're happy that the tribes are continuing to work with us."
On top of that during the Pandemic the Govt paid for ALL School Lunches for ALL students but Congress Voted to end that in June 2023 and now states are on the hook for $19 million in School Lunch Debt owed.
Congress got rid of a free lunch for all program. That means some students are going hungry
Students\u00a0are back to racking up lunch debt this school year after federal\u00a0legislation that provided free meals to all students expired.
School lunches aren't a Good comparison for Ukraine Funding.
1. The US Govt IS offering money to continue to pay for school lunches even through the Summer time....and 15 states rejected it
2. The US Govt DID pay for ALL school lunches for several Years and then Congress Voted to Cut it and end that
mugatu
Ranger
We had free lunches for at least a year here in MD without income restrictions. In 2021 my son got it in Kindergarten but cant talk to 2020. We didn't have it from 2022 on, but don't know if any of that was county dependent since we moved that year. I learned things change a lot county to county here.
My taxes are higher, but schools are much better funded (teachers often make 100k+), ambulance rides are paid by county in at least some counties, at least some also provide free 24hr emergency mental health and family support lines. Just things I've dealt with personally.
Our government is all about helping out companies and industries but is much less interested in helping people/families because "that's socialism and people need to just help themselves".
I always hear the Russia lovers (not saying you are, but they do) call Ukraine "corrupt". But, I've never seen data or an article or anything showing specifically that it is corrupt. Like, what corruption? An example?
Who do you think the last leader that Putin would have feared would be?
mugatu
Ranger
Yeah. I hear about it from certain news and social media posts but never see solid points to show it is rampant nowadays... I take it as another one of those comments like teachers are "indoctrinating our kids". No one ever actually backs it up it's just claimed to vilify.
I've seen open reports of their president removing and prosecuting officials suspected of it. I believe tge6ve had the issue in the past since it was so rampant in USSR but it looks like they are working on it - was also a stipulation for EU and NATO admittance if I remember right.
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How Deep Does Corruption Run in Ukraine?
Ukraine has made significant progress fighting graft, but its record continues to haunt it.
foreignpolicy.com
Literally the first article that came up in google. Before the inevitable trashing of foreign policy.com let me say up front that I have never heard of them and cannot testify as to their ties to hate speech, Islamophobia, racial discrimination, Nazi tendencies, fake news, or their role in the assassination of John F Kennedy. It was simply a simple quick search in an attempt to answer your question while watching a softball game. I’m sure that a more exhaustive search would yield more specific results. I apologize in advance. In their defense, they probably aren’t much more corrupt than our own government.
In response to your obvious bait I will say that in my opinion Putin wouldn’t have invaded if Trump was in office.
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