Ukraine. Ukraine. Ukraine.

[Donnyboy]

I especially love how you continue to place blame at Biden's feet for doing "nothing to prevent this from happening" (which is an untrue statement by the way), but conveniently ignore what you think could have been done to prevent "this from happening" from the get go.

The answer to that question is nothing more than to have surrendered to his demands in advance and hope he's satisfied with stopping there.

Which is pretty much the position that you're advocating for now.

In 2019 Trump could have signed the agreement proposed by Russia to not expand NATO…that prevents this. (You can read that document and send them some zzz’s) Biden did nothing to end it. He threw money at it…:and tied legislation that could have helped here to funding of it. The timing of invasion isn’t a coincidence. They didn’t wake up one day and say hmmmm should go play golf or invade Ukraine.

I don’t place all the blame on Biden and I don’t like the way Trump is handling it. But it’s got to stop cause Russia is in it now and Ukraine’s led by by an idiot with more sports cars than military victories on our dime.

 

[steross]

@PF5 posted in the meme thread the other day a picture of Putin and Trump playing poker and it was a naked Trump sitting across from Putin with a stack of chips and Trumps clothes on the table. It's very accurate. He has all the chips. He has them because nothing was done to prevent this from happening and once started nothing tangible has been done to stop it. So here we are. Russia was wrong to invade and you've never heard me say otherwise but here we are. We are on the sidelines of fight between 250lb fighter and 125lb guy that took karate when he was 8. No amount of coaching is gonna change the outcome we have to jump in or stop it.....oh and the 250lb guy has a gun if he is crazy enough to use it.

None of you have produced anything other than soundbites.....BS about freedom and democracy in a country where elections are suspended, the media has been taken over, and people are forced into combat.... of how to get out of it because even with continued military aid at higher levels Ukraine is going to run out of bodies before Russia runs out of anything. Just drivel that if you don't want a continued war you are either a) MAGA or B) support Putin as if there is that little nuance. But no realistic strategy or plan and zero realization of what Ukraine is capable of it's like the line of thinking is if we spend enough money they will turn into a real army when a big chunk of what trained army they had is already dead. Remember when I said we shouldn't escalate a war with one foot out the door and said Russia isn't using a fraction of it's military or tech and was called an idiot then they shot a missile that can hit anywhere in that country they want and there is nothing over there that can stop it....... They can't out last them.....they can't defend against them even with what we have given them and to provide what can would be a big escalation and take time....they can't bankrupt them because European NATO nations are funding Russia at higher rates than they are supporting Ukraine I guess they are all MAGA and puppets too....and those countries won't have continued support past one election cycle if Putin decides to gouge them with pricing on energy.....and they don't have another option till infrastructure can be changed. Think about that the saber rattling leaders of European nations are literally funding the enemy at higher rates than friends and talking shit at the same time. Thats how well the defense strategy of NATO is going. Russia isn't about to take off into the rest of Europe.....there is zero sign of that none. If that is the plan and it takes this long against a shit army with hand-me-down weapons to take that little then I guess they'll hit Germany around 3025. They aren't advancing because they are choosing not to.

This whole thing has been fumbled from the start. Get a deal done and move on. Putin ain't walking home with nothing. Ukraine has an incompetent army and leader who was literally singing and dancing for Putin a few years ago. This whole thing sucks.....it could have been prevented.

Two megalomaniacs are running the most powerful armies in the world. Maybe war isn't the best thing.

Hate Trump and don't think Hegseth is qualified.....me too....let's not go to war with Russia over a chunk of land where a considerable part of the population are happy Russia is there or break the promise we won't move NATO east for the 14th time.

The last thing we need is the UK with it's 5.5% contribution to NATO funding dragging our soldiers into direct conflict.

Don't forget one Korea has already entered and the other is real uneasy about that......

You guys should listen to Jeffery Sachs....he is an idiot that taught at Harvard and Columbia. Advised the post communist economies of eastern European nations.....advised multiple UN Gen Secs.....Bush and Obama...help build the Global AIDS fund and friends with Bono/Soros you know a real MAGA nazi who works to end world poverty. Get some real perspective not just what you heard on the news for 15 seconds. Or just repeat the same line because you don't like our pres.

Putin has all the chips because they were handed to him. Figure out a way to get him to stop the game even if it means he keeps some chips because the next round of hands is much more complicated.

Nothing could show Putin bias more than a tiny country that was by all objective measures supposed to be overrun in 48-72 hours holding a "superpower" to a stalemate for years to the point that the Russia had to get troops from North Korea and your assessment is "Ukraine has an incompetent army."

Anybody willing to say something that objectively stupid just isn't thinking rationally about the situation or is pro-Russia.

This is like Rice being tied with Ohio State in double overtime and the refs saying "We should just call penalties on Rice and get this done before another player gets hurt. There is just no way for Rice to beat tOSU anyway."

 

[CowboyJD]

In 2019 Trump could have signed the agreement proposed by Russia to not expand NATO…that prevents this. (You can read that document and send them some zzz’s) Biden did nothing to end it. He threw money at it…:and tied legislation that could have helped here to funding of it. The timing of invasion isn’t a coincidence. They didn’t wake up one day and say hmmmm should go play golf or invade Ukraine.

I don’t place all the blame on Biden and I don’t like the way Trump is handling it. But it’s got to stop cause Russia is in it now and Ukraine’s led by by an idiot with more sports cars than military victories on our dime.

Nailed it!

I'm freaking Nostradamus....

The answer to that question is nothing more than to have surrendered to his demands in advance and hope he's satisfied with stopping there.

There is no way you can say with any certainty whatsoever that signing the agreement proposed by Russian to not expand NATO would have prevented this. The primary thing that would have done would have been to leave Finland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Sweden and Ukraine with no leverage for Putin's long-standing long-stated desires to return Russia to it's former Iron Curtain borders and reunited the USSR.

 

[Donnyboy]

Nothing could show Putin bias more than a tiny country that was by all objective measures supposed to be overrun in 48-72 hours holding a "superpower" to a stalemate for years to the point that the Russia s had to get troops from North Korea and your assessment is "Ukraine has an incompetent army."

Anybody willing to say something that objectively stupid just isn't thinking rationally about the situation or is pro-Russia.

This is like Rice being tied with Ohio State in double overtime and the refs saying "We should just call penalties on Rice and get this done before another player gets hurt. There is just no way for Rice to beat tOSU anyway."

And this is naive. Remember when Ukraine launched the long range missiles that some were shot down and the rest did little damage so Russia shot one and hit where they wanted and Ukraine has no defense against…..I bet is was the only one they have…..that must be it. Any time Ukraine does anything Russia swats them back with superior weaponry. Russia are either the worst military strategists on earth or they aren’t advancing by choice….In your example Ohio St is playing the freshman team….they can put the starters in at anytime….and NATO is funding the NIL. And you are doubling your bets on Rice.

 

[CowboyJD]

Nothing could show Putin bias more than a tiny country that was by all objective measures supposed to be overrun in 48-72 hours holding a "superpower" to a stalemate for years to the point that the Russia had to get troops from North Korea and your assessment is "Ukraine has an incompetent army."

Anybody willing to say something that objectively stupid just isn't thinking rationally about the situation or is pro-Russia.

This is like Rice being tied with Ohio State in double overtime and the refs saying "We should just call penalties on Rice and get this done before another player gets hurt. There is just no way for Rice to beat tOSU anyway."

 

[Polds4OSU]

Nothing could show Putin bias more than a tiny country that was by all objective measures supposed to be overrun in 48-72 hours holding a "superpower" to a stalemate for years to the point that the Russia had to get troops from North Korea and your assessment is "Ukraine has an incompetent army."

The total combat Russian losses from February 24, 2022, to February 28, 2025, are estimated to be:

・personnel - about 874,560 Russian troops were eliminated;

・tanks - 10,222 ;

・troop-carrying AFVs - 21,234 ;

・artillery systems - 23,847 ;

・MLRS - 1,303 ;

・air defense systems - 1,087;

・aircraft - 370;

・helicopters - 331;

・UAV operational-tactical level - 27,274 ;

・cruise missiles - 3,085;

・warships/boats - 28;

・submarines - 1;

・vehicles and fuel tanks - 38,944 ;

・special equipment - 3,763 .

 

[steross]

And this is naive. Remember when Ukraine launched the long range missiles that some were shot down and the rest did little damage so Russia shot one and hit where they wanted and Ukraine has no defense against…..I bet is was the only they have…..that must be it. Any time Ukraine does anything Russia swats them back with superior weaponry. Russia are either the worst military strategists on earth or they aren’t advancing by choice….In your example Ohio St is playing the freshman team….they can put the starters in at anytime….and NATO is funding the NIL. And you are doubling your bets on Rice.

Please explain why a country would chose not to win a war in 72 hours but would instead chose to protract it for years, kill thousands of their own people, and require huge favors from others that they will have to pay back in some fashion?

And, if a country is led by someone so insane that they would chose to prolong war and misery that they started and, according to you, have the firepower to end, why would we negotiate in any way with that person? Would someone willing to do that ever accept lasting peace when he has shown that he has always attacked in the past?

Sorry, you are making no sense at all.

 

[steross]

.In your example Ohio St is playing the freshman team….they can put the starters in at anytime….and NATO is funding the NIL. And you are doubling your bets on Rice.

I have seen many professional assessments of the Russian military and have never seen a single one that claimed that Russia had elite troops that they were withholding from battle. The fact that Ukraine has not had any mobilized units from outside militaries while the Russians have brought in the north Koreans is even more evidence this isn't factual at all.

 

[Donnyboy]

Please explain why a country would chose not to win a war in 72 hours but would instead chose to protract it for years, kill thousands of their own people, and require huge favors from others that they will have to pay back in some fashion?

And, if a country is led by someone so insane that they would chose to prolong war and misery that they started and, according to you, have the firepower to end, why would we negotiate in any way with that person? Would someone willing to do that ever accept lasting peace when he has shown that he has always attacked in the past?

Sorry, you are making no sense at all.

Maybe because they don’t want Ukraine in NATO and NATO weapons at their front door and don’t want UKraines resources which they have used to be under the control of NATO…..that’s a reason.

You explain now why they took an amount of land in little time time mirrors a border that just so happens to be majority ethnic Russian where conflict has already occurred over that topic and stopped….quit attacking with any frequency and have made not concerted effort to move forward if the dream is all of Europe. Or explain why they are using a fraction of what they have?

 

[Vakarian74]

All I here from one side is the equivalent to if she didn’t want to be assaulted she shouldn’t have worn that or more on the point yelling at their kid for hitting someone when they only were defending themselves.

 

[cowboyinexile]

But it’s got to stop cause Russia is in it now and Ukraine’s led by by an idiot with more sports cars than military victories on our dime.

So you got any evidence to support that claim?

 

[milehighpoke]

I just cannot, for the life of me, understand how Putin hasn't tripped and fallen out a window.

Maybe Donny is right and Putin is prolonging the war on purpose. Perhaps to get his bestest buddy / lap dog / greatest asset into the highest government position in the world? Donny is on to something here.

 

[CowboyJD]

Maybe because they don’t want Ukraine in NATO and NATO weapons at their front door and don’t want UKraines resources which they have used to be under the control of NATO…..that’s a reason.

You explain now why they took an amount of land in little time time mirrors a border that just so happens to be majority ethnic Russian where conflict has already occurred over that topic and stopped….quit attacking with any frequency and have made not concerted effort to move forward if the dream is all of Europe. Or explain why they are using a fraction of what they have?

Looking at timeline maps of the changing battlefronts it looks Russian made initial advances into those areas with little resistance, had plans of advancing and tried to advance to Kyiv and control the entire country by deposing the government there, met resistance and were driven back to hold what they could.

It sure doesn’t look like they stopped advancing on Kyiv out of the goodness of their heart and don’t have designs or desire to advance further and reunite the former glory of the USSR.

 

[mugatu]

Nailed it!

I'm freaking Nostradamus....


There is no way you can say with any certainty whatsoever that signing the agreement proposed by Russian to not expand NATO would have prevented this. The primary thing that would have done would have been to leave Finland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, Sweden and Ukraine with no leverage for Putin's long-standing long-stated desires to return Russia to it's former Iron Curtain borders and reunited the USSR.

Interesting that he ignores the fact that there was already a treaty by Russia, US and UK that none would invade Ukraine and they would provide protection of Ukraine. Why would we need to agree to no NATO expansion to prevent an invasion that was already protected against. Hmmm... it's almost like Russia signs treaties/agreements and then ignores them at will.

No agreement limiting NATO would have done anything long term but limit NATO

 

[mugatu]

And this is naive. Remember when Ukraine launched the long range missiles that some were shot down and the rest did little damage so Russia shot one and hit where they wanted and Ukraine has no defense against…..I bet is was the only one they have…..that must be it. Any time Ukraine does anything Russia swats them back with superior weaponry. Russia are either the worst military strategists on earth or they aren’t advancing by choice….In your example Ohio St is playing the freshman team….they can put the starters in at anytime….and NATO is funding the NIL. And you are doubling your bets on Rice.

 

[mugatu]

I have seen many professional assessments of the Russian military and have never seen a single one that claimed that Russia had elite troops that they were withholding from battle. The fact that Ukraine has not had any mobilized units from outside militaries while the Russians have brought in the north Koreans is even more evidence this isn't factual at all.

 

[steross]

Maybe because they don’t want Ukraine in NATO and NATO weapons at their front door and don’t want UKraines resources which they have used to be under the control of NATO…..that’s a reason.

You explain now why they took an amount of land in little time time mirrors a border that just so happens to be majority ethnic Russian where conflict has already occurred over that topic and stopped….quit attacking with any frequency and have made not concerted effort to move forward if the dream is all of Europe. Or explain why they are using a fraction of what they have?

So... If all they wanted was this border strip, what was the purpose of the initial attack deep into the country that exposed their lack of skill and was repelled by the "incompetent" Ukrainians?

They are not using a fraction of what they have. Where did you get that idea?

Please stick to facts.

 

[Polds4OSU]

So... If all they wanted was this border strip, what was the purpose of the initial attack deep into the country that exposed their lack of skill and was repelled by the "incompetent" Ukrainians?

They are not using a fraction of what they have. Where did you get that idea?

Please stick to facts.

I'm convinced there are a large group of people who still think Russia has the military might of the Soviet Union and are scared of Russia from like the 60s to 80s type scared

I think Trump is one of them and I think that Putin easily manipulates him because of it


Russia has the 11 GDP in the world and should no longer be relevant on the world stage at this level...... seriously Canada is about to over take them in GDP and they are almost 12th and falling fast......yet the POTUS lets him walk all over him and cowers to him like he is still the same old bear he used to be .....he isn't, Russia isn't, their military isn't and they are hoping America comes to save them before Ukraine exposes any more than they already have

 

[Bowers3]

So... If all they wanted was this border strip, what was the purpose of the initial attack deep into the country that exposed their lack of skill and was repelled by the "incompetent" Ukrainians?

They are not using a fraction of what they have. Where did you get that idea?

Please stick to facts.

Donny doesn’t do sources. Please just take everything he says as fact.

 

[Donnyboy]

I have seen many professional assessments of the Russian military and have never seen a single one that claimed that Russia had elite troops that they were withholding from battle. The fact that Ukraine has not had any mobilized units from outside militaries while the Russians have brought in the north Koreans is even more evidence this isn't factual at all.

I haven’t studied as much as you I guess I didn’t realize Long range missiles that we have seen them use once….angain maybe they only had one…that Ukraine has no defense for that they can launch from land or sea needed elite military personnel as pilots. Dr. Strangelove style!!!

If the Russian army can be stopped in its tracks by Ukraine for years then our entire intelligence and defense departments and 50 years of presidents from both parties have some explaining to do for why we needed to spend trillions for the last few decades. Or maybe they aren’t using their military in the way that can..:.especially since their Air Force and Navy are essentially sitting this out….not entirely but for the most part. I don’t know apparently I’m a propagandist for not not wanting war…but seems like if I was hell bent on taking over an entire region I’d be using the weapons at my disposal to keep moving not bog down hundreds of miles behind a path I can clear with weapons you can’t touch without losing another one of my non elite ground troops/tanks/artillery.

Or hear me out he isn’t trying to take over all the former Soviet states….picked a spot where a big chunk of the people will be glad they are there….and wants to keep NATO off his doorstep. He knows if he dismantles Kiev in a weekend with missiles the world jumps in and he loses. I think he is evil not dumb. That could be it….but i probably just think that because I love Russia and hate America right?

Oh and dont forget a bunch of NATO gets a big chunk of Russian/Ukrainian energy sources. The Ukrainian ones that can be taken out. You know the ones that have paid Russia more for gas than they have helped Ukraine….the ones who are experiencing civil unrest and who’s elections are going crazy. And we can absolutely help with that but not as fast as you can close a valve or blow up a pipe. That wrecks NATO economies and sends inflation soaring here….. You don’t need navy seal types for that either. But I’m sure it’s not any of that…..HOORAY WAR!!!!