Trump 47

I want to ask, what is the evidence that a mass, unaccountable, purging of the Federal workforce is needed?

This graph is the Federal workforce (spikes are census workers). The Green line is US population. Why do we have far too many Federal workers now when relative to the population served we are nowhere near a high point?

Now, if they wanted to go through the workforce and work with congress to get rid of the provisions that make it very hard to fire the staff that are underperforming, I'd be for that. If they want to make it so that I don't have to write a new Standard Operation Procedure every time some spurious random thing occurs and then send it through 5 committees and two unions to get it approved, awesome.

But, a purge of workers with no way to see if the people leaving are high performers or critically needed knowledge keepers? Purging the EIS that investigates infectious disease outbreaks, nuclear workers etc? Really?

I just have not seen any evidence that what is occurring makes sense at all.

It would make more sense to cancel every contract with an company that is over $1 billion market cap and renegotiate all of them.Funny, that isn't being considered.

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I would assume that is tech driven......tech that anytime I deal with a govt agency is still so far behind it's crazy. I didn't believe the retirement papers being kept on paper in a mine thing. That's real. I know you work for the VA I'm sure you see good and bad. In my world all I see is bad. As soon as you deal with any govt agency they have several times the people and take way way longer than any private group to accomplish simple tasks. I don't think anyone considers the govt or it's employees a well oiled machine as a whole. I also don't know a massive need to cut folks exists....I would bet there is room for culling but it's not like I have studied it......I'm worried less about head count than spending. I would much prefer a total through look at pork spending before a single job is cut.....if they feel there is excess personnel use them to help cut the spending before you lose the resource. My point was if we are going to review 3M employees it's not going to be surgical....there will be lines of demarcation that aren't performance/need based like any large organization. I don't know in your line of work if you have ever been part of a massive group but the play is always cut big and fix what you wish you hadn't lost not go line by line. That seems like the play here right or wrong.
 
No not at all. Between setting up national elections and the richest man in the world promoting himself lies a pretty big expanse.

This has been needed to be being done forever. I think there could have been some kind of non/bi-partisan way prior to the last 7 years. I have 0 confidence in our current house/senate to be able to pull it off. They aren't good at anything.
Yeah, definitely kind of. National elections isn’t the only proposition that has been put out there.

Okay then….what’s your idea for a solution?

You’ve rejected everyone else’s proposition and you say here it can’t be bipartisan action by Congress.

So instead of rejecting everybody else’s propositions, what are your ideas?

Other than what’s going on now?

Otherwise, you’re basically Nero….fiddling while Rome burns.
 
I would assume that is tech driven......tech that anytime I deal with a govt agency is still so far behind it's crazy. I didn't believe the retirement papers being kept on paper in a mine thing. That's real. I know you work for the VA I'm sure you see good and bad. In my world all I see is bad. As soon as you deal with any govt agency they have several times the people and take way way longer than any private group to accomplish simple tasks. I don't think anyone considers the govt or it's employees a well oiled machine as a whole. I also don't know a massive need to cut folks exists....I would bet there is room for culling but it's not like I have studied it......I'm worried less about head count than spending. I would much prefer a total through look at pork spending before a single job is cut.....if they feel there is excess personnel use them to help cut the spending before you lose the resource. My point was if we are going to review 3M employees it's not going to be surgical....there will be lines of demarcation that aren't performance/need based like any large organization. I don't know in your line of work if you have ever been part of a massive group but the play is always cut big and fix what you wish you hadn't lost not go line by line. That seems like the play here right or wrong.
I agree that it should be about spending. This honestly seems more about spite. They have labelled all fed employees "bureaucrats" and so picking off any seems like a good thing. I also agree that at times the government seems way behind. Honestly, in health care, not so much anymore because it can be so frickin bad in the real world. The VA is beating community care in time to appointments to get vets seen. I know it is different with other agencies. That gets back to what I was saying about needing a new SOP every time something happens. If anything, that seems worse, not better since this started with every exec fearing for their lives.
 
I would assume that is tech driven......tech that anytime I deal with a govt agency is still so far behind it's crazy. I didn't believe the retirement papers being kept on paper in a mine thing. That's real. I know you work for the VA I'm sure you see good and bad. In my world all I see is bad. As soon as you deal with any govt agency they have several times the people and take way way longer than any private group to accomplish simple tasks. I don't think anyone considers the govt or its employees a well oiled machine as a whole. I also don't know a massive need to cut folks exists....I would bet there is room for culling but it's not like I have studied it......I'm worried less about head count than spending. I would much prefer a total through look at pork spending before a single job is cut.....if they feel there is excess personnel use them to help cut the spending before you lose the resource. My point was if we are going to review 3M employees it's not going to be surgical....there will be lines of demarcation that aren't performance/need based like any large organization. I don't know in your line of work if you have ever been part of a massive group but the play is always cut big and fix what you wish you hadn't lost not go line by line. That seems like the play here right or wrong.
Break it and figure out what needed to be fixed is what you seem to be talking about here.
 
I agree that it should be about spending. This honestly seems more about spite. They have labelled all fed employees "bureaucrats" and so picking off any seems like a good thing. I also agree that at times the government seems way behind. Honestly, in health care, not so much anymore because it can be so frickin bad in the real world. The VA is beating community care in time to appointments to get vets seen. I know it is different with other agencies. That gets back to what I was saying about needing a new SOP every time something happens. If anything, that seems worse, not better since this started with every exec fearing for their lives.
What we are seeing occur right now is definitely about spite….and power/influence/$$$ accumulation for the chosen few.
 
Panic' in Ukraine as leaked confidential Trump peace plan astounds: report

 
FDA staff were reviewing Elon Musk’s brain implant company. DOGE just fired them.
At least 20 staffers reviewing Neuralink, Elon Musk's brain implant company, were fired in an ongoing DOGE purge of federal workers.

 
BREAKING

Department of Homeland Security preparing to fire hundreds of senior leaders this week

The firings are a move not to reduce the size of the workforce but to get rid of people the administration sees as not on board with its goals.

 
I agree that's not a good plan, but can we all agree a lot of it has been broken for a long time.
We absolutely can agree that it’s been broken a long time.

And it’s been broken by both sides for a long time…..not just the past four years by Biden.

But Elon and Trump ain’t looking to fix it, IMO. IMO, they’re taking advantage of a broken system that they had and continue to have a part in the breaking.

I don’t know how we reach a political state of moderation and cooperation into today’s society. IMO, that’s the only way we are going to see improvement. The last time we saw balanced budgets, we had a split between Congressional control and the President and the President was a moderate Democrat willing to compromise and a Congress also willing to compromise.
 
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We absolutely can agree that it’s been broken a long time.

And it’s been broken by both sides for a long time…..not just the past four years by Biden.

But Elon and Trump ain’t looking to fix it, IMO. IMO, they’re taking advantage of a broken system that they had and continue to have a part in the breaking.
Yeah, by a long time I meant +/- our lifetime.
 
We absolutely can agree that it’s been broken a long time.

And it’s been broken by both sides for a long time…..not just the past four years by Biden.

But Elon and Trump ain’t looking to fix it, IMO. IMO, they’re taking advantage of a broken system that they had and continue to have a part in the breaking.

I don’t know how we reach a political state of moderation and cooperation into today’s society. IMO, that’s the only way we are going to see improvement. The last time we saw balanced budgets, we had a split between Congressional control and the President and the President was a moderate Democrat willing to compromise and a Congress also willing to compromise.

I can't decide if the chaos out of all of this us through incompetence or intentional and I'm not sure which concerns me more.

I was wondering if they confused people on probationary employment with people on pip's and figured it was an easy way to cut underperformers but Elon doesn't seem like the type of guy to make haphazard decisions.
 
Yeah, by a long time I meant +/- our lifetime.
IMO, the last time we were headed in the right direction financially was Slick Willie’s workforce cutting, balanced budgets, and budget surplus.

BC might have been a bad guy morally, but he was a moderate willing to compromise. To a certain extent, he had to because the Republicans controlled Congress.

More moderates on both sides willing to compromise are what we need. I don’t know if we’re gonna see that anymore.
 
I can't decide if the chaos out of all of this us through incompetence or intentional and I'm not sure which concerns me more.

I was wondering if they confused people on probationary employment with people on pip's and figured it was an easy way to cut underperformers but Elon doesn't seem like the type of guy to make haphazard decisions.
It’s definitely intentional by Musk.

He did essentially the same thing at Twitter. It’s his management style to disrupt, tear down, and rebuild to his liking. IMO, he’s clearly impulsive and chaotic and he can get away with it in his personal businesses because of his wealth and because he doesn’t particularly care about who gets hurt as long as he comes out on top. I think that is exactly what we continue to see with DOGE’s actions.
 

For weeks, the Department of Government Efficiency, led by Elon Musk, the world’s richest man and a special government employee, has conducted a campaign to radically downsize the federal government and terminate numerous agency employees. Musk’s actions—including freezing federal grants, issuing an executive order offering employees paid resignation through Sept. 30, dismantling the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and seizing control of massive databases with sensitive information on all Americans—have raised serious legal and constitutional questions.

Most of these controversial actions are tied up in court, with 25 cases filed so far—all but one ruling against Trump, while the other was dismissed on standing rather than merits. This has not fazed either President Trump or Elon Musk, both of whom have run businesses while facing frequent lawsuits. More legal challenges are expected, some likely reaching the Supreme Court.

The long-term goal is to expand presidential power under the theory of the Unitary Executive, which advocates for greater White House control over the government. Conservatives have pushed for this since the Reagan administration, and Trump hopes Musk’s actions will help advance it. This also explains why USAID was targeted first. Foreign aid is widely unpopular, with many Americans overestimating how much is spent on it. Thus, closing the agency would likely avoid public backlash, with the impact felt mostly by farmers—more on that later.

Cutting government budgets is broadly popular in theory, but if Trump and Musk overcome legal challenges and succeed in large-scale downsizing, they will find that cutting government can backfire on them. By using an axe instead of a scalpel, they run the risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater and eliminating essential functions. In its haste, DOGE is likely to disrupt services the public supports, making the government less effective. History shows that major government failures are politically lethal, often more so than constitutional arguments. When both occur, they can create serious political problems for the president and the party in power.

What counts as a major government failure? The Carter administration’s botched rescue of the Iran hostages, the Bush administration’s mishandling of Hurricane Katrina, the Obama administration’s health care website crashes that delayed Obamacare sign-ups, the Biden administration’s chaotic withdrawal from Afghanistan, the Trump administration’s ineffective response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and many more. These are failures no president—no matter how skilled a communicator—can spin or deflect. Blaming predecessors or changing the subject won’t work when the public can clearly see that something critical went disastrously wrong.

If Trump’s Department of Government Efficiency plans survive legal challenges, several major failures could follow—each landing squarely on the president’s shoulders. As President Harry Truman famously said, “The buck stops here.”

Disruptions in distribution of Social Security and veterans’ benefits​

...

Potential delays in tax refund processing​

...

Increased tax evasion leading to reduced federal revenue​

...

Increased risk of mortality from foodborne illnesses​

...

Further strain on an already fragile agricultural economy could exacerbate global food insecurity​

...

Reducing intelligence personnel at the CIA or FBI could increase the risk of domestic terrorist attacks​

...
This list of potential failures extends across nearly every government agency. Musk acknowledges the likelihood of mistakes, saying no one can be perfect, and promises to fix problems quickly. But government operations are not like the tech industry—errors in issuing payments, tracking diseases, or ensuring aviation safety can have serious, sometimes life-threatening consequences. If DOGE indiscriminately slashes budgets and fires essential workers, it risks disaster. The fallout from major failures could hurt Trump’s poll numbers and weaken GOP support.
 
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