Exactly. Those people do not speak for the institution itself, which should be apparent with these statements.
Israel under attack
- Thread starter GOGETUMPOKE
- Start date
- Status
Smart. And I’m not running for president. The best part, they got the EU to pay for it.
Minutes before Iranian officials were to land.
@andylicious this was a serious question. I’m not try to have you answer a gotcha question or any thing like that. I just didn’t see anything anti semetic in @GratefulPoke ‘s post.
Absolutely.
Just like you can be for a stronger border and not be anti-hispanic.
Just like you can be for better election security and support Voter ID laws and not be racist.
That said, maybe the DSA (and their congressional members) and BLM aren’t anti-Semitic, but they are aligning themselves with a group that wants to destroy Israel. Their views are evil and should be opposed.
Yep. But it’s much easier to play the blame game with absolutely no context for message board warriors.
“With regard to the $6 billion. First, again, it’s always worth repeating the facts because, unfortunately, the facts get lost along the way. The money that Iran accrued in bank accounts, in this case in South Korea, for the sale of its oil, was done pursuant to an arrangement established by the previous administration — the Trump administration.
“None of the funds that have now gone to Qatar have actually been spent or accessed in any way by Iran. Indeed, funds from that account are overseen by the Treasury Department, can only be dispensed for humanitarian goods — food, medicine, medical equipment — and never touch Iranian hands. We have strict oversight of the funds and we retain the right to freeze them.”
Thank you for asking
Israel is the Jewish homeland, how can you be anti-Israel and not be antisemitic? There were terrible atrocities committed, I do not understand how in the hell anyone can feel bad for a bunch of terrorists that did this. This is the Israeli version of 9/11, and to see students from an institution of higher learning defending this action by Hamas is hurtful.
Grateful Poke’s decision to be all knowing and defend Harvard/Yale for whatever half-assed reasoning he’s using is very much offensive. His logic that it’s not everyone at Harvard/Yale is his view and he’s entitled to that and it’s probably not everyone there. I’ve dealt with enough institutions to understand when students are comfortable enough to issue those kinds of statements it’s an institution wide problem.
There’s been a tendency to use slurs against Jewish people and denigrate that heritage in a way that would never be accepted towards any other heritage group. It’s subtle, it’s seen in terms of jokes and generalities. Grateful Poke in his insensitivity struck a cord that is right in that vain.
I am not posting on this anymore. It’s obvious that my point is not valid in other’s eyes. I’m not going to “grasp at straws” or make “straw man arguments”. The one time I actually wrote that I appreciated the comments by a president I have consistently crushed in other comments I was said to be “grasping at straws”. Thank you for asking so kindly.
PF5
Ranger
we see and read only what the media wants us to see and read...it's not as simple as a 'terrorists' (western media words) group attacking Israel...goes way deeper than that and for MANY years!! we can all have our opinions on this, but until you live the life of an Israelis or a Palestinian, you are just repeating what others have told you...I have been told how Israel has held Palestine in occupation for years, in which Palestinians have few human rights, and finally have had enough...that hamas is not targeting women and children as is reported here...
PF5
Ranger
anti-Israel is like not agreeing with negative actions they are doing/have done... antisemitism is blaming Jews for all negative actions Israel does...
The terrorist attack is abhorrent, and the letter that was signed was hurtful, we agree on that. Where we dont agree is you are willing to let a few bad actors speak for everyone. I was and am not willing to do that since it appeared to be a minority of students. This position has absolutely been vinticated by the president of Harvards statement along with the 2nd letter and other statements from Harvard students and faculty that @Bowers3 linked. You are triggered, which again is understandable, but it is causing you to make sweeping and inaccurate generalizations.
Furthermore, learn to take a break from topics that you dont have the emotional ability to handle at a given time. There is no shame in that. There is not a single thing that I (or others) said in this thread or elsewhere to belittle, denigrate or slur Jews or Jewish people. Nothing that was said is in that vein whatsoever. What I will say is that calling someone an antisemite without evidence is wildly inappropriate and a personal attack. You owe me an apology.
I will close with saying that there is a difference between being "anti-israel" and being critical of some of the Israeli goverment's actions and policies. The concerns I posted about are shared by a large number of prominent Israelis: former heads of Shin Bet, Mossad, Generals, goverment officials and former cabinet members. According to your "definition" they must be antisemetic too.
Last edited:
But yet you keep going. Why I should apologize for your continued insults? Amazing hubris on your part.
Last edited:
I think we all need to calm down and also realize that no one is anti-Israel but anti-Israeli government. Even the Israelis would agree with that.
I have consistently criticized Biden, he has done the right things in this.
PF5
Ranger
The double standard with Israel and Palestine leaves us in moral darkness Moustafa Bayoumi The Guardian
Biden and Zelenskiy support a war they say was ‘unprovoked’ but a defenseless population will pay for media misinformation
I always dread watching US news coverage of wars, and now is no exception. After Hamas’s deadly attacks in Israel and Israel’s hellish bombardment of Gaza, I checked in on MSNBC. Before long, I heard one of their reporters talk about “the violent history between these two nations” – as if Palestine were a country – and had to turn off the TV to get a break. Palestine is not a country. That’s the whole point.
Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel all live under various regimes of organized discrimination and oppression, much of which makes life nearly unlivable, and if the US media can’t even frame the issue correctly, what use is there in even covering it?
It’s not just laziness either. The reflexive identification with Israel, by both US media professionals and politicians, always obscures the fuller picture of what’s happening between Israel and the Palestinians.
On 7 October, the national security council spokesperson Adrienne Watson stated that the US “unequivocally condemns the unprovoked attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli civilians”. Every one of us must stand up and denounce the killing of every civilian, Israeli or Palestinian or otherwise. But Watson’s use of the word “unprovoked” is doing a lot of work here.
What exactly counts as a provocation? Not, apparently, the large number of settlers, more than 800 by one media account, who stormed al-Aqsa mosque on 5 October. Not the 248 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces or settlers between 1 January and 4 October of this year. Not the denial of Palestinian human rights and national aspirations for decades.
One can, in fact must, see such actions as provocations without endorsing further murderous violence against civilians. But if you watched only US news, you would be likely to presume that Palestinians always act while Israel only reacts. You might even think that Palestinians are the ones colonizing the land of Israel, no less. And you probably believe that Israel, which holds ultimate control over the lives of 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and yet denies them the right to vote in Israeli elections, is a democracy.
To be considered a political being you must at the very least be considered a human being. Who gets to count as human? “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” Israel’s defense minister Yoav Gallant said. Human animals? How can such language and an announced policy of collective punishment against all the residents of Gaza be seen by Israel’s supporters in the United States or elsewhere as defensible? Let’s be clear: Gallant’s language is not the rhetoric of deterrence. It’s the language of genocide.
There’s the nagging hypocrisy of the war in Ukraine. So many around the world support Ukraine’s resistance to foreign occupation (as they should) but blithely deny Palestinians any way to resist their occupation. Even non-violent methods of resistance like the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign is vilified and even criminalized. Why the double standard? Unsurprisingly, such stances go all the way to the top. The Ukraine president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has twice voiced unilateral support for Israel in recent days, saying that “Israel’s right to self-defense is unquestionable”. Would he say the same for Russia on his territory? Of course not. Zelenskiy ought to see how his invaded and occupied land is more akin to the situation of the Palestinians than the Israelis. The obfuscations are everywhere.
So are the double standards. We will certainly hear a great deal in the US about the Israeli Americans killed or abducted by Hamas, as we should, but will those same voices rise to the same volume for Palestinian Americans threatened and killed in Gaza? Did they also demand answers when the Israeli military shot and killed the Palestinian American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh in May 2022?
The double standard may be expected considering how the plight of the Palestinians has been discussed in the past, but that doesn’t eliminate its moral darkness. It’s also particularly dangerous and tone-deaf at this moment, when we’re on the cusp of a government – Israel – using unprecedented violence on a largely defenseless and penned-in population, in part to cover for its own fatal mistakes and embarrassment.
One fundamental way this double standard operates is through a false equivalence, a two-sides-ism that hides the massive asymmetry of power between the state of Israel and the scattered population groupings that make up the Palestinian people. They’re not equal. One dominates while the other is dominated. One colonizes. The other is colonized.
At least since the Oslo accords of 1993, we have been sold various promises that the way out of this injustice was negotiated settlements; after generations of enormous human sacrifice, Palestinians would finally achieve their national aspirations. It was already clear to many of us that this had long ago become a necessary illusion maintained by the powerful. Today, a negotiated peace seems farther away than ever.
This both saddens and frightens me. We are very likely entering another long and painful era where armed struggle and violent domination become increasingly and mutually dependent on each other for survival. Yet neither can win. The Palestinians will remain. They cannot be eliminated. Israel too will continue to exist. The future is full of unnecessary and horrific bloodshed all around. Desperate western attachment to morally bankrupt double standards bears a large portion of the blame.
Biden and Zelenskiy support a war they say was ‘unprovoked’ but a defenseless population will pay for media misinformation
I always dread watching US news coverage of wars, and now is no exception. After Hamas’s deadly attacks in Israel and Israel’s hellish bombardment of Gaza, I checked in on MSNBC. Before long, I heard one of their reporters talk about “the violent history between these two nations” – as if Palestine were a country – and had to turn off the TV to get a break. Palestine is not a country. That’s the whole point.
Palestinians in Gaza, the West Bank and Israel all live under various regimes of organized discrimination and oppression, much of which makes life nearly unlivable, and if the US media can’t even frame the issue correctly, what use is there in even covering it?
It’s not just laziness either. The reflexive identification with Israel, by both US media professionals and politicians, always obscures the fuller picture of what’s happening between Israel and the Palestinians.
On 7 October, the national security council spokesperson Adrienne Watson stated that the US “unequivocally condemns the unprovoked attacks by Hamas terrorists against Israeli civilians”. Every one of us must stand up and denounce the killing of every civilian, Israeli or Palestinian or otherwise. But Watson’s use of the word “unprovoked” is doing a lot of work here.
What exactly counts as a provocation? Not, apparently, the large number of settlers, more than 800 by one media account, who stormed al-Aqsa mosque on 5 October. Not the 248 Palestinians killed by Israeli forces or settlers between 1 January and 4 October of this year. Not the denial of Palestinian human rights and national aspirations for decades.
One can, in fact must, see such actions as provocations without endorsing further murderous violence against civilians. But if you watched only US news, you would be likely to presume that Palestinians always act while Israel only reacts. You might even think that Palestinians are the ones colonizing the land of Israel, no less. And you probably believe that Israel, which holds ultimate control over the lives of 5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza and yet denies them the right to vote in Israeli elections, is a democracy.
To be considered a political being you must at the very least be considered a human being. Who gets to count as human? “I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” Israel’s defense minister Yoav Gallant said. Human animals? How can such language and an announced policy of collective punishment against all the residents of Gaza be seen by Israel’s supporters in the United States or elsewhere as defensible? Let’s be clear: Gallant’s language is not the rhetoric of deterrence. It’s the language of genocide.
There’s the nagging hypocrisy of the war in Ukraine. So many around the world support Ukraine’s resistance to foreign occupation (as they should) but blithely deny Palestinians any way to resist their occupation. Even non-violent methods of resistance like the boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign is vilified and even criminalized. Why the double standard? Unsurprisingly, such stances go all the way to the top. The Ukraine president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has twice voiced unilateral support for Israel in recent days, saying that “Israel’s right to self-defense is unquestionable”. Would he say the same for Russia on his territory? Of course not. Zelenskiy ought to see how his invaded and occupied land is more akin to the situation of the Palestinians than the Israelis. The obfuscations are everywhere.
So are the double standards. We will certainly hear a great deal in the US about the Israeli Americans killed or abducted by Hamas, as we should, but will those same voices rise to the same volume for Palestinian Americans threatened and killed in Gaza? Did they also demand answers when the Israeli military shot and killed the Palestinian American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh in May 2022?
The double standard may be expected considering how the plight of the Palestinians has been discussed in the past, but that doesn’t eliminate its moral darkness. It’s also particularly dangerous and tone-deaf at this moment, when we’re on the cusp of a government – Israel – using unprecedented violence on a largely defenseless and penned-in population, in part to cover for its own fatal mistakes and embarrassment.
One fundamental way this double standard operates is through a false equivalence, a two-sides-ism that hides the massive asymmetry of power between the state of Israel and the scattered population groupings that make up the Palestinian people. They’re not equal. One dominates while the other is dominated. One colonizes. The other is colonized.
At least since the Oslo accords of 1993, we have been sold various promises that the way out of this injustice was negotiated settlements; after generations of enormous human sacrifice, Palestinians would finally achieve their national aspirations. It was already clear to many of us that this had long ago become a necessary illusion maintained by the powerful. Today, a negotiated peace seems farther away than ever.
This both saddens and frightens me. We are very likely entering another long and painful era where armed struggle and violent domination become increasingly and mutually dependent on each other for survival. Yet neither can win. The Palestinians will remain. They cannot be eliminated. Israel too will continue to exist. The future is full of unnecessary and horrific bloodshed all around. Desperate western attachment to morally bankrupt double standards bears a large portion of the blame.
- Status
Similar threads
