Israel under attack

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GratefulPoke said:
You did accuse me of being inane and stating that Harvard/Yale was innocent in this matter. Do you retract that statement?


You can have whatever opinion you want on this topic. I also am free to call that opinion into question if it is not ideologically consistent. Some Harvard/Yale students and student groups do not equal "Harvard" or "Yale". Just like a few citizens and groups do not equate to the "United States".

Plus, the Harvard president already denounced the letter (https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/hamas-israel-attack-harvard-university-student-groups-president-claudine-gay-statement/#:~:text="As the events of recent,the region," Gay said.)
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Sorry for the delay, oh inane one. You stated clearly that the students aren’t Harvard/Yale, but yet aren’t students what make up a university and reflect it’s value base?

Please remember that Harvard is the same university that employed a white woman as a Native American when she clearly was a fraud. How do we believe anything they say?

Anyway enough of this discussion, the horror of what happened is very real. I’m sorry for you that you can excuse those that would stand on the sidelines and offer support to a group capable of these actions. I’m actually kind of proud Biden for once.
 
andylicious said:
Sorry for the delay, oh inane one. You stated clearly that the students aren’t Harvard/Yale, but yet aren’t students what make up a university and reflect it’s value base?

Please remember that Harvard is the same university that employed a white woman as a Native American when she clearly was a fraud. How do we believe anything they say?

Anyway enough of this discussion, the horror of what happened is very real. I’m sorry for you that you can excuse those that would stand on the sidelines and offer support to a group capable of these actions. I’m actually kind of proud Biden for once.
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Its pretty clear you are upset and that is understandable. Its also preventing you from being able to accurately appriase this situation. You are willing to allow less than 7% (31 out of 450) total student groups at Harvard speak for the whole university because you already made your mind up about the institution a long time ago.

Intellectual honesty is important and you dont have much right now. Keep rolling out straw mans and accusations of things I never said in this thread. Maybe one of these times you will own up to having a poorly thought out position instead of commencing with this nonsense. Based on your track record I'm not gonna hold my breath.
 
GratefulPoke said:
Its pretty clear you are upset and that is understandable. Its also preventing you from being able to accurately appriase this situation. You are willing to allow less than 7% (31 out of 450) total student groups at Harvard speak for the whole university because you already made your mind up about the institution a long time ago.

Intellectual honesty is important and you dont have much right now. Keep rolling out straw mans and accusations of things I never said in this thread. Maybe one of these times you will own up to having a poorly thought out position instead of commencing with this nonsense. Based on your track record I'm not gonna hold my breath.
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You ought to change lines of work, you can dig a hole deeper and faster than I’ve ever seen. You are probably wearing your MAGA Hat while typing this, are you really this antisemetic or is it just a phase?
 
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I really like Steven Pinker’s work. He’s a scientist at Harvard. As some of you have discussed, several Harvard professors and students have showed their disgusting views of the Hamas attack. Pinker and hundreds of his Harvard colleagues are pushing back. Please take time to read the document linked on his Twitter post.

 
andylicious said:
You ought to change lines of work, you can dig a hole deeper and faster than I’ve ever seen. You are probably wearing your MAGA Hat while typing this, are you really this antisemetic or is it just a phase?
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Do you hear that sound? Its the sound of someone grasping at straws. Better luck next time.
 
GratefulPoke said:
Its pretty clear you are upset and that is understandable. Its also preventing you from being able to accurately appriase this situation. You are willing to allow less than 7% (31 out of 450) total student groups at Harvard speak for the whole university because you already made your mind up about the institution a long time ago.

Intellectual honesty is important and you dont have much right now. Keep rolling out straw mans and accusations of things I never said in this thread. Maybe one of these times you will own up to having a poorly thought out position instead of commencing with this nonsense. Based on your track record I'm not gonna hold my breath.
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All things Harvard. Agreed. Pointing at certain groups of a whole and extrapolating the entire group as the same as the whole is extremely common.

Should Harvard medical school be treated the same as the Law school?

As far as the student groups go, I’d be shocked if they quit being shocking. That’s the point of youth.

My point of contention with Harvard/Yale etc iis the state of the world better or worse? Simple question. These people by far, are the movers and shakers in business and government. For almost a century, they’ve controlled almost all upper leadership in politics.

Those ones, suck.
 
Llcoolw said:
All things Harvard. Agreed. Pointing at certain groups of a whole and extrapolating the entire group as the same as the whole is extremely common.

Should Harvard medical school be treated the same as the Law school?

As far as the student groups go, I’d be shocked if they quit being shocking. That’s the point of youth.

My point of contention with Harvard/Yale etc iis the state of the world better or worse? Simple question. These people by far, are the movers and shakers in business and government. For almost a century, they’ve controlled almost all upper leadership in politics.

Those ones, suck.
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Now more than 350 Harvard faculty have signed the letter pushing back.

 
And since I doubt any of you follow the link. Below is the statement from Pinker and his colleagues.

We are faculty at Harvard who are deeply concerned about the events in the Middle East, as well as the safety of our students here on campus. On October 7th, Hamas launched a premeditated attack on the Israeli population. Hundreds of terrorists infiltrated Israeli towns and houses. Children were killed in front of their parents; entire families were executed. Grandmothers, mothers, and their babies were kidnapped. All in all, more than 900 Israelis were killed in a single day and the death toll is continuing to grow. There have also been deaths on the Palestinian side, including hundreds of terrorists and, tragically, civilians as well.

Every innocent death is a tragedy. Yet, this should not mislead us to create false equivalencies between the actions leading to this loss. Hamas planned and executed the murder and kidnapping of civilians, particularly women, children, and the elderly, with no military or other specific objective. This meets the definition of a war crime. The Israeli security forces were engaging in self-defense against this attack while dealing with numerous hostage situations and a barrage of thousands of rockets hidden deliberately in dense urban settings.

The leaders of the major democratic countries united in saying that “the terrorist actions of Hamas have no justification, no legitimacy, and must be universally condemned” and that Israel should be supported “in its efforts to defend itself and its people against such atrocities.“ In contrast, while terrorists were still killing Israelis in their homes, 35 Harvard student organizations wrote that they hold “the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence,” with not a single word denouncing the horrific acts by Hamas. In the context of the unfolding events, this statement can be seen as nothing less than condoning the mass murder of civilians based only on their nationality. We’ve heard reports of even worse instances, with Harvard students celebrating the “victory” or “resistance” on social media.

As a University aimed at educating future leaders, this could have been a teaching moment and an opportunity to remind our students that beyond our political debates, some acts such as war crimes are simply wrong. However, the statement by Harvard’s administration fell short of this goal. While justly denouncing Hamas, it still contributed to the false equivalency between attacks on noncombatants and self-defense against those atrocities. Furthermore, the statement failed to condemn the justifications for violence that come from our own campus, nor to make it clear to the world that the statement endorsed by these organizations does not represent the values of the Harvard community. How can Jewish and Israeli students feel safe on a campus in which it is considered acceptable to justify and even celebrate the deaths of Jewish children and families?

We recognize that Harvard has students and community members from all regions, including from the Gaza Strip. These are not easy times, and we pray for the safety of all our members and their families. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict has a long and complex history. We hold varying opinions, but none of us endorses all of Israel's past actions. However, the events of this week are not complicated. Sometimes there is such a thing as evil, and it is incumbent upon educators and leaders to call it out, as they have with school shootings and terrorist attacks. It is imperative that our academic leadership, whose good faith we do not doubt, state this clearly and unequivocally. Further, while individuals’ free speech should be protected, our leaders should make it clear that our community rejects any statements that excuse terrorist acts.

We stand with any member of the Harvard community who feels unsafe or alone and pledge to do what we can individually and collectively. We hold our hope for better days in the future. To quote President Obama, “As we support Israel’s right to defend itself against terror, we must keep striving for a just and lasting peace for Israelis and Palestinians alike.”
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