Are these people lying or telling the truth. If it's the truth chem trails and a bunch of other crap are real.
Interesting Geoengineering Map
- Thread starter DeerePoke
- Start date
No they’re not….and your cited source explicitly says as much.
You tell me what the heck this is.
There is also this. Cloud seeding.
Polds4OSU
Marshall
Why do we believe this Map or the things its says? What credibility does it have? For Real...I'm trying to find why people believe this map and why?
First I looked at who put it out.
Heinrich Boll Foundation out of Germany in partnership with the ETC Group out of Montreal.
Here are their qualifications
The Heinrich Boll Foundation was built out of the Green Party of German Politics in the 1980's and is named after Nobel Prize Winner in Literature?
The ETC group is a Group now based in Montreal Canada that grew out of the original Organization started by first lady Eleanor Roosevelt to fund predominantly black Sharecrop Farmers in the 1930's and currently is now headquartered in Canada and argues that Global Warming is a Man Made thing caused by Political Elites and Powerful Corporations
and list there Why as
The Heinrich Böll Foundation (hbs) is the party-affiliated foundation of Bündnis 90/Die Grünen. Legally and economically, it is a registered association without foundation assets. According to its mission statement, the foundation associates its namesake, the writer and Nobel Prize winner for literature Heinrich Böll, with "the defence of freedom, civil courage, militant tolerance and the appreciation of art and culture as independent spheres of thought and action".
The ETC Group
The Action Group on Erosion, Technology, and Concentration (ETC), pronounced is an advocacy organization based around "the conservation and sustainable advancement of cultural and ecological diversity and human rights.". ETC frequently publishes opinions on scientific research by its staff and board members, covering topics such as community and regional planning, ecology, evolutionary biology, and political science.
In the early 1970s, Pat Mooney, Hope Shand, and Cary Fowler began focusing on seed-related issues under the auspices of the Rural Advancement Foundation. This initiative led to the development of an international branch that prioritized programs to protect farmers' rights and address agricultural challenges in the global south. Over time, the group expanded its scope to include broader issues related to biodiversity and sustainable agriculture.
RAFI was a pioneer in civil society research, critiques, and advocacy related to farmers' rights and seed monopoly laws. The organization opposed the adoption of genetic engineering in agriculture, patents on life, biopiracy (a term coined by RAFI), and emerging life science technologies such as terminator technology, genomic technologies, and nanotechnology. RAFI played a crucial role in advocating for and influencing UN recognition of farmers' rights and the establishment of the International Treaty on Plant Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture.
In order to secure nonprofit status in the United States, RAFI conducted a name change contest on their website in early 2001, eventually selecting the name ETC Group (etcetera) after considering numerous suggestions from the public.
The organization has been active against geoengineering, as highlighted through their "Hands off Mother Earth!" campaign, which was launched in April 2010. In October 2010, they published a detailed report titled "Geopiracy: The Case Against Geoengineering," which examined various dimensions of geoengineering. The report covered proposed technologies, governance frameworks, key stakeholders in the geoengineering field, and the involvement and interests of military forces and corporations.
Diana Bronson, a spokesperson for the ETC Group, argued that global warming was largely caused by the actions of the scientific, corporate, and political elites in developed nations
First I looked at who put it out.
Heinrich Boll Foundation out of Germany in partnership with the ETC Group out of Montreal.
Here are their qualifications
The Heinrich Boll Foundation was built out of the Green Party of German Politics in the 1980's and is named after Nobel Prize Winner in Literature?
The ETC group is a Group now based in Montreal Canada that grew out of the original Organization started by first lady Eleanor Roosevelt to fund predominantly black Sharecrop Farmers in the 1930's and currently is now headquartered in Canada and argues that Global Warming is a Man Made thing caused by Political Elites and Powerful Corporations
and list there Why as
The Heinrich Böll Foundation (hbs) is the party-affiliated foundation of Bündnis 90/Die Grünen. Legally and economically, it is a registered association without foundation assets. According to its mission statement, the foundation associates its namesake, the writer and Nobel Prize winner for literature Heinrich Böll, with "the defence of freedom, civil courage, militant tolerance and the appreciation of art and culture as independent spheres of thought and action".
The ETC Group
The Action Group on Erosion, Technology, and Concentration (ETC), pronounced is an advocacy organization based around "the conservation and sustainable advancement of cultural and ecological diversity and human rights.". ETC frequently publishes opinions on scientific research by its staff and board members, covering topics such as community and regional planning, ecology, evolutionary biology, and political science.
History
The ETC Group, known until September 1, 2001 as the Rural Advancement Foundation International (RAFI), has historical roots linked to the National Sharecroppers Fund which was established in the 1930s. Initiated by Eleanor Roosevelt and other reformers, the Fund aimed to provide support for predominantly black tenant farmers in the United States and advocate for their rights.In the early 1970s, Pat Mooney, Hope Shand, and Cary Fowler began focusing on seed-related issues under the auspices of the Rural Advancement Foundation. This initiative led to the development of an international branch that prioritized programs to protect farmers' rights and address agricultural challenges in the global south. Over time, the group expanded its scope to include broader issues related to biodiversity and sustainable agriculture.
RAFI was a pioneer in civil society research, critiques, and advocacy related to farmers' rights and seed monopoly laws. The organization opposed the adoption of genetic engineering in agriculture, patents on life, biopiracy (a term coined by RAFI), and emerging life science technologies such as terminator technology, genomic technologies, and nanotechnology. RAFI played a crucial role in advocating for and influencing UN recognition of farmers' rights and the establishment of the International Treaty on Plant Genetic Resources for Food and Agriculture.
In order to secure nonprofit status in the United States, RAFI conducted a name change contest on their website in early 2001, eventually selecting the name ETC Group (etcetera) after considering numerous suggestions from the public.
Geoengineering
[edit]The organization has been active against geoengineering, as highlighted through their "Hands off Mother Earth!" campaign, which was launched in April 2010. In October 2010, they published a detailed report titled "Geopiracy: The Case Against Geoengineering," which examined various dimensions of geoengineering. The report covered proposed technologies, governance frameworks, key stakeholders in the geoengineering field, and the involvement and interests of military forces and corporations.
Diana Bronson, a spokesperson for the ETC Group, argued that global warming was largely caused by the actions of the scientific, corporate, and political elites in developed nations
You really gonna try to assert that your cited source is proof that “chemtrails and a bunch of other crap is real” when your very own cited source says the exact opposite? Is that REALLY the road you’re trying to walk down?
Your original post was if they are telling the truth “chemtrails and a bunch of other crap is real”. If they are telling the truth….THIS is the truth.
“What Geoengineering Monitor isn’t: Chemtrails and climate denialism
A conspiracy theory claims that long-lasting vapour trails left by aircraft, often referred to as “chemtrails,” contain harmful substances intentionally released into the atmosphere for various and often undisclosed purposes. This unfounded theory mistakenly associates such vapour exhaust trails with weather modification and solar geoengineering. Our work at Geoengineering Monitor has no connection to such claims, nor does it endorse or lend any credibility to these unfounded theories.An unfortunate side effect of the growth of online “chemtrails” references is that the term geoengineering is wrongly used to refer to conspiracy theories involving large-scale, covert weather modification. This means that some of the information available online (particularly on social media) referring to geoengineering is based on extensive speculation rather than research and facts.
While the chemtrails discourse could reflect a legitimate distrust of certain government actors and transparency in decision-making—and indeed real weather modification projects can pose risks to communities and the environment—the actual effect of it is to promote opposition to geoengineering based on unfounded assertions. This discredits the serious work against a range of real geoengineering projects that is being carried out by communities and organisations in many regions of the world.
On top of this, much of the online information relating to chemtrails and weather modification conspiracy theories can be traced back to deeply discriminatory and racist political agendas that neither seek nor are compatible with climate justice. These conspiracy theories often go hand-in-hand with climate denialism, which further undermines the understanding of the climate crisis and the real solutions to it.
Although Geoengineering Monitor’s research and publications have never provided evidence in support of chemtrails or weather modification conspiracy theories, our resources are sometimes being cited as evidence that these theories must be true. We therefore strongly encourage all of our readers to look closely at our publications before making any links to such conspiracy theories and their associated politics. “
Which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of “chemtrails” are real.
I’m not interested in discussing or even giving any credence to conspiracy theories.
I’m just pointing out the complete and utter illogic of arguing that if X is true then “chemtrails” are real when X is explicitly saying “Our work at Geoengineering Monitor has no connection to such claims, nor does it endorse or lend any credibility to these unfounded theories.”
I'm saying this site shows they are actually doing weather manipulation projects in the atmosphere. Not that the off the wall conspiracy theories are real. The conspiracy theories always come from somewhere and there is a truth buried in them. I find it very interesting. You read minds and thoughts as good as townie.
There have been FOIA request that show the stuff on this map is real. Here is a document from a foia in Wales. It was the first one that came up. https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2022-06/atisn16381doc1.pdf
Here the UK publicly admitted they are doing it.
Real-world geoengineering experiments revealed by UK agency
Trials will test ways to block sunlight and slow climate crisis that threatens to trigger catastrophic tipping points
There is a lot more. I'm not going all in on the conspiracy that every con trail is a chem trail nonsense. But there is a ton of evidence they are doing geoengineering in the atmosphere.
You said what you said.
I didn’t have to read minds or thoughts.
You originally said if what they are saying is true then chemtrails trails and other crap is real. X explicitly said chemtrails and other crap aren’t real and what they posted in no way supports the assertion that they are.
If you want to back off what you originally said by claiming that you’re NOW saying “they are actually doing weather manipulation projects in the atmosphere” that’s absolutely no skin off my nose. But you absolutely are changing and there is absolutely a difference between what you first said and what you now claim to be saying.
Maybe you didn’t mean what you originally said. Maybe you misspoke. Whatever. I’m done.
Hi. I've spent the last 2+ yrs arguing with people who think the earth is flat, chemtrails are real and space is fake. Conspiracy theories come from somewhere alright. It's a lack of understanding and the need to assign a nefarious intent to things you don't understand. The truth is not buried in them, there is a simple truth at their base and the branches are grown from ignorance, misunderstanding and wild imagination. "Cloud seeding is real" is the truth, "they're spraying chemicals to control us and send hurricanes to Republican population" is the wildly ignorant misunderstanding of what cloud seeding does and is capable of doing.
mugatu
Sheriff
Yes, geoengineering is a thing and has been openly discussed for years. It's not really been hidden.
What is geoengineering—and why should you care?
As the threats of climate change grow, we’re all likely to hear more and more about the possibilities, and dangers, of geoengineering. Here’s what it means.
The Harvard Solar Geoengineering Research Program - The Salata Institute
The Harvard Solar Geoengineering Research Program (SGRP) produces knowledge to help society decide whether—and if so, how—solar geoengineering should play a role in global efforts to manage the growing risks from climate change.
Geoengineering and Environmental Ethics
Geoengineering is the intentional manipulation of the climate system to counteract global climate change. An ethical evaluation of the concept exposes a number of potential concerns for the environment and human-environment relations.
www.nature.com
Geoengineer the Planet? More Scientists Now Say It Must Be an Option
Human intervention with the climate system has long been viewed as an ill-advised and risky step to slow global warming. But with carbon emissions soaring, initiatives to study and develop geoengineering technologies are gaining traction as a potential last resort.
e360.yale.edu
Chemtrails are a conspiracy theory based on lack of understanding.
There have been FOIA request that show the stuff on this map is real. Here is a document from a foia in Wales. It was the first one that came up. https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2022-06/atisn16381doc1.pdf
Here the UK publicly admitted they are doing it.
Real-world geoengineering experiments revealed by UK agency
Trials will test ways to block sunlight and slow climate crisis that threatens to trigger catastrophic tipping pointswww.theguardian.com
There is a lot more. I'm not going all in on the conspiracy that every con trail is a chem trail nonsense. But there is a ton of evidence they are doing geoengineering in the atmosphere.
Has anyone ever denied that they do these things? I remember learning about cloud seeding in grade school. It's really interesting and cool stuff. But I just don't see what the problem is. We can continue the discussion on whether some of the experiments/projects work, what the pros and cons are, and if they should keep doing them or not. But you're just being weird about it.
Polds4OSU
Marshall
Here is some lite reading for you if you are just now aware that these types of experiments and the Crazy conspiracy crap that comes with it has been going in since the 1940'sThere have been FOIA request that show the stuff on this map is real. Here is a document from a foia in Wales. It was the first one that came up. https://www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2022-06/atisn16381doc1.pdf
Here the UK publicly admitted they are doing it.
Real-world geoengineering experiments revealed by UK agency
Trials will test ways to block sunlight and slow climate crisis that threatens to trigger catastrophic tipping points
There is a lot more. I'm not going all in on the conspiracy that every con trail is a chem trail nonsense. But there is a ton of evidence they are doing geoengineering in the atmosphere.
Project Cirrus- The Story of Cloud Seeding -1952
Rainmaking Is Used As Weapon by U.S. New York Times, 1972
First Cloud Seeding Heralds Weather Modification Date November 13, 1946
First Cloud Seeding Heralds Weather Modification | EBSCO
The first cloud-seeding experiment, conducted on November 13, 1946, by Vincent Joseph Schaefer, marks a significant milestone in the field of weather modification. Schaefer, alongside pilot Curtis Talbot, released dry ice into supercooled stratus clouds near Schenectady, New York, resulting in...
With Operation Popeye, the U.S. government made weather an instrument of war in Vietnam
As geo-engineering projects soar, the declassified project is newly relevant.
With Operation Popeye, the U.S. government made weather an instrument of war
Operation Popeye was a secret Vietnam War-era effort to conduct covert cloud seeding over Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, extend the monsoon season, and give the United States an advantage in the war.
www.popsci.com
Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques
Signed in Geneva May 18, 1977Entered into force October 5, 1978
Link from State Dept of US Gov Archives
Collection contents
- General Electric- Non-Project Cirrus, 1891-1993 9components
- Ice and Snow Research, 1932-1979, 1986, Undated 247components
- Cloud Seeding and Weather Modification, 1932-1957, Undated 91components
- Advisory Committee on Weather Control, 1953-1954
- Advisory Committee on Weather Control- Correspondence, 1955
- Advisory Committee on Weather Control- Correspondence, 1956, Undated
- Show More ...
- Cloud Seeding by Others: Philippines, 1947-1948, Undated
- Cloud Seeding by Others: South Dakota, 1953 June 13
- Cloud Seeding by Others: Statistical Evaluation, U.S. Department of Agriculture, 1952 October 30
- Cloud Seeding Data- Air Expansion and Ice, 1951, Undated
- Cloud Seeding Data- W.E. Howell to V. Schaefer, 1950 April-1950 November, 1953 February 12
- Cloud Seeding: Newspaper Articles by Schaefer, 1953 September
- Cloud Seeding- Post Project Cirrus: Trip to Norway (Newspaper articles in Norwegian), 1952-1954, 1952 October
- Cloud Slides with Letter, Idaho and Montana, 1953-1954
- Cloud Stereos, Negatives, 1944
- Clouds: Device for Measuring Liquid Water Content, 1945 January 29
- Show More ...
- General Research, 1922-1954, 1970-1971, Undated 294components
- Research Notebooks, 1936-1954, Undated 15components
- Correspondence, 1939-1954, Undated 136components
- Subject Files, 1891-1978, Undated 246components
- Reports & Publications by Schaefer, 1936-1954, Undated 96components
- Reports & Publications by Others-- General Electric, 1913-1957, 1968, 1989, Undated 197components
- Reports & Publications by Others-- Non-General Electric, 1901-1953, 1978, 1988, 1988, Undated 382components
- General Electric- Project Cirrus, 1943-1954, 1981, Undated 3components
- Munitalp Foundation, 1940-1968, Undated 5components
- Consulting, 1950-1983 2components
- Loomis School/Natural Sciences Institute, 1949-1990, Undated 5components
- Atmospheric Sciences Research Center, 1950-1993, Undated 8components
- The Institute on Man and Science, 1963-1991 55components
- Environmentalism, 1940-1993 5components
- Correspondence, 1922-1993, Undated 2components
- A Field Guide to the Atmosphere, 1949-1992, Undated 84components
- Films, 1932-1971, Undated 208components
- Biographical & Autobiographical Materials, 1909-1993, Undated 3
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Oh that and worse. Difference now is they are doing it on a much larger scale.Here is some lite reading for you if you are just now aware that these types of experiments and the Crazy conspiracy crap that comes with it has been going in since the 1940's
Project Cirrus- The Story of Cloud Seeding -1952
Rainmaking Is Used As Weapon by U.S. New York Times, 1972
First Cloud Seeding Heralds Weather Modification Date November 13, 1946
First Cloud Seeding Heralds Weather Modification | EBSCO
The first cloud-seeding experiment, conducted on November 13, 1946, by Vincent Joseph Schaefer, marks a significant milestone in the field of weather modification. Schaefer, alongside pilot Curtis Talbot, released dry ice into supercooled stratus clouds near Schenectady, New York, resulting in...www.ebsco.com
With Operation Popeye, the U.S. government made weather an instrument of war in Vietnam
As geo-engineering projects soar, the declassified project is newly relevant.
With Operation Popeye, the U.S. government made weather an instrument of war
Operation Popeye was a secret Vietnam War-era effort to conduct covert cloud seeding over Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, extend the monsoon season, and give the United States an advantage in the war.
Convention on the Prohibition of Military or Any Other Hostile Use of Environmental Modification Techniques
Signed in Geneva May 18, 1977
Entered into force October 5, 1978
Link from State Dept of US Gov Archives
Collection contents
- General Electric- Non-Project Cirrus, 1891-1993 9components
- Ice and Snow Research, 1932-1979, 1986, Undated 247components
- Cloud Seeding and Weather Modification, 1932-1957, Undated 91components
- Advisory Committee on Weather Control, 1953-1954
- Advisory Committee on Weather Control- Correspondence, 1955
- Advisory Committee on Weather Control- Correspondence, 1956, Undated
- Show More ...
- Cloud Seeding by Others: Philippines, 1947-1948, Undated
- Cloud Seeding by Others: South Dakota, 1953 June 13
- Cloud Seeding by Others: Statistical Evaluation, U.S. Department of Agriculture, 1952 October 30
- Cloud Seeding Data- Air Expansion and Ice, 1951, Undated
- Cloud Seeding Data- W.E. Howell to V. Schaefer, 1950 April-1950 November, 1953 February 12
- Cloud Seeding: Newspaper Articles by Schaefer, 1953 September
- Cloud Seeding- Post Project Cirrus: Trip to Norway (Newspaper articles in Norwegian), 1952-1954, 1952 October
- Cloud Slides with Letter, Idaho and Montana, 1953-1954
- Cloud Stereos, Negatives, 1944
- Clouds: Device for Measuring Liquid Water Content, 1945 January 29
- Show More ...
- General Research, 1922-1954, 1970-1971, Undated 294components
- Research Notebooks, 1936-1954, Undated 15components
- Correspondence, 1939-1954, Undated 136components
- Subject Files, 1891-1978, Undated 246components
- Reports & Publications by Schaefer, 1936-1954, Undated 96components
- Reports & Publications by Others-- General Electric, 1913-1957, 1968, 1989, Undated 197components
- Reports & Publications by Others-- Non-General Electric, 1901-1953, 1978, 1988, 1988, Undated 382components
- General Electric- Project Cirrus, 1943-1954, 1981, Undated 3components
- Munitalp Foundation, 1940-1968, Undated 5components
- Consulting, 1950-1983 2components
- Loomis School/Natural Sciences Institute, 1949-1990, Undated 5components
- Atmospheric Sciences Research Center, 1950-1993, Undated 8components
- The Institute on Man and Science, 1963-1991 55components
- Environmentalism, 1940-1993 5components
- Correspondence, 1922-1993, Undated 2components
- A Field Guide to the Atmosphere, 1949-1992, Undated 84components
- Films, 1932-1971, Undated 208components
- Biographical & Autobiographical Materials, 1909-1993, Undated 3
They are talking about the new aerosol spraying they are doing to block the sun. They are also working on weather modifications on a much larger scale now.
This thread is pretty funny. 5 years ago everyone would have been saying they don't do that. They have let information flow now. Now everyone says it's common knowledge. Yes cloud seeding was. What is the stopping rain thing they are doing. How about blocking out the sun. That's what the UK just admitted they are trying to do. All cause our magnetic field is getting weaker and a little man made CO2 is adding a touch to that problem.
The document you linked that you said was a FOIA request says specifically that they are not doing Solar Radiation Management and have no plans to do so.
As for the other stuff. It’s important science and I hope it yields positive results with little negative effects. It’ll be cool to keep track of (if I remember to) over the next few years. So thanks for posting.
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