Do we still need unions?

[gopokes83]

Since we’re celebrating the great American Socialist holiday this weekend, I started wondering about the place unions have in today’s America. I’ve been a member of 3-4 unions during my life, some, like the IAFF were pretty strong, but most just seemed to just take a few bucks a month from my check and would threaten a strike that nobody wanted over seemingly nothing every few years. Right to work states like TX and Ok seem to render most unions fairly toothless. 100 years ago unions made great strides in giving workers a say in working conditions and a better life, just not sure that’s still the case.


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[Pokey]

Since we’re celebrating the great American Socialist holiday this weekend, I started wondering about the place unions have in today’s America. I’ve been a member of 3-4 unions during my life, some, like the IAFF were pretty strong, but most just seemed to just take a few bucks a month from my check and would threaten a strike that nobody wanted over seemingly nothing every few years. Right to work states like TX and Ok seem to render most unions fairly toothless. 100 years ago unions made great strides in giving workers a say in working conditions and a better life, just not sure that’s still the case.


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When do you believe employers grew such selfless hearts? They care so little for their employees that they’ll spend big bucks on robots and self-checkout, but won’t give employees a forty hour week. Currently the movie industry is wanting to buy your image and voice once then use the AI forever. That’s why we need unions. IMO

 

[gopokes83]

When do you believe employers grew such selfless hearts? They care so little for their employees that they’ll spend big bucks on robots and self-checkout, but won’t give employees a forty hour week. Currently the movie industry is wanting to buy your image and voice once then use the AI forever. That’s why we need unions. IMO

Unions to hold back technical progress just to keep jobs? No lawyer, but I would think there would be likeness copyright protections to keep someone from making a movie using your voice and likeness without your approval. Probably going to be a ton of new clauses in actor’s contracts going forward. The 36 hour week to keep from having to pay full time benefits has been around forever. Don’t know that unions can change that.


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[CowboyJD]

Sounds like you’ve already decided they aren’t still needed and just looking for an argument.

 

[gopokes83]

Sounds like you’ve already decided they aren’t still needed and just looking for an argument.

Nah. I’ve never been in a situation where I really needed any of the unions I’ve belonged to, but I also haven’t been at any job that I’ve felt has tried to overtly oppress me either. I’ve been lucky enough to have the skills and education to move on somewhere else if I didn’t like my job or how I was being treated. I’m not delusional enough to not realize that’s certainly not everyone’s case. I’m really thinking of the 20 something right to work states, where as an at-will employee you don’t have much Union protection like you may in one that isn’t. Other than the emergency services unions I don’t know of any in Texas that have much power. Maybe teachers, but the state takeover in Houston makes me doubt that somewhat.


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[CowboyJD]

Nah. I’ve never been in a situation where I really needed any of the unions I’ve belonged to, but I also haven’t been at any job that I’ve felt has tried to overtly oppress me either. I’ve been lucky enough to have the skills and education to move on somewhere else if I didn’t like my job or how I was being treated. I’m not delusional enough to not realize that’s certainly not everyone’s case. I’m really thinking of the 20 something right to work states, where as an at-will employee you don’t have much Union protection like you may in one that isn’t. Other than the emergency services unions I don’t know of any in Texas that have much power. Maybe teachers, but the state takeover in Houston makes me doubt that somewhat.


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And another post indicating you don’t see a need for them.

Meh…

 

[gopokes83]

And another post indicating you don’t see a need for them.

Meh…

The topic was in the form of a question. Just because I’ve never needed one doesn’t mean there aren’t people that still do, if someone knows of one that’s genuinely helping workers I’d like to hear about it. And by asking if they’re still needed obviously means I’ve considered that they aren’t. But yeah, unless someone can mention a real need for them I think their time has largely passed, but I’m not looking to argue about it.


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[CowboyJD]

That statement reeks of having an open mind on the topic.

I think if a group of workers believe it is in their best interests to bargain collectively, it is incredibly presumptuous of you or I to tell them a union isn’t needed.

I think the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes show pretty clearly that in certain industries they are still effective in protecting workers against employers that would have overwhelming power to do whatever they wanted if the workers were not standing together.

 

[gopokes83]

That statement reeks of having an open mind on the topic.

I think if a group of workers believe it is in their best interests to bargain collectively, it is incredibly presumptuous of you or I to tell them a union isn’t needed.

I think the WGA and SAG-AFTRA strikes show pretty clearly that in certain industries they are still effective in protecting workers against employers that would have overwhelming power to do whatever they wanted if the workers were not standing together.

Who said I had an open mind about it? I said I wasn’t looking for an argument, discussion doesn’t necessarily equate to arguing. Looks like the SAG WGA strikes could be solved with expanded contracts instead of a strike which effects the income of many, many times more people who aren’t actors or writers. If you’re a successful writer and I want your services I’ll pay you more residuals and a bigger piece of the pie if the show’s successful. Lesser talents will get lesser deals, you see it played out on any professional sports team.


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[HacklemanPoke]

Who said I had an open mind about it? I said I wasn’t looking for an argument, discussion doesn’t necessarily equate to arguing. Looks like the SAG WGA strikes could be solved with expanded contracts instead of a strike which effects the income of many, many times more people who aren’t actors or writers. If you’re a successful writer and I want your services I’ll pay you more residuals and a bigger piece of the pie if the show’s successful. Lesser talents will get lesser deals, you see it played out on any professional sports team.


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I just want to point out that to defend your position against unions you actually use the results negotiated by professional players unions.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

Who said I had an open mind about it? I said I wasn’t looking for an argument, discussion doesn’t necessarily equate to arguing. Looks like the SAG WGA strikes could be solved with expanded contracts instead of a strike which effects the income of many, many times more people who aren’t actors or writers. If you’re a successful writer and I want your services I’ll pay you more residuals and a bigger piece of the pie if the show’s successful. Lesser talents will get lesser deals, you see it played out on any professional sports team.


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Also, it’s not just about pay. UPS averted a strike and 1 of the concessions to the union was ac in the trucks. After the agreement was struck but before changes went into place a UPS driver in the Dallas area died from heat exhaustion.

Players unions have negotiated retirement benefits and better safety conditions.

The head of a major studio w a net worth of billions said to let them strike. He’s got enough money to outlast them. One of the things the unions are wanting is to control their own image and likeness in this new era of AI. You can sure bet those against unions would be the first in line to pitch a fit if someone profited off their likeness using AI.

And finally, I couldn’t find it but I saw a chart a couple of weeks ago that showed the explosion of CEO and executive management pay w compensation ratios going from $20-$40 to $1 fifty yrs ago to $100-$500 to $1 today. This was CEO pay in a company vs avg worker pay in the same company. The chart had an inflection timeline that showed the diminishing influence of unions.

 

[CowboyJD]

Who said I had an open mind about it? I said I wasn’t looking for an argument, discussion doesn’t necessarily equate to arguing. Looks like the SAG WGA strikes could be solved with expanded contracts instead of a strike which effects the income of many, many times more people who aren’t actors or writers. If you’re a successful writer and I want your services I’ll pay you more residuals and a bigger piece of the pie if the show’s successful. Lesser talents will get lesser deals, you see it played out on any professional sports team.


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You do realize professional sports teams in the US are dealing with players unions collectively bargaining, right?

LOL.

Calling for "discussion" without an open mind to the matter is nothing but a call for counter-points to argue against and dismiss. Calling for discussion while not having an open mind to the discussion absolutely does equate to looking for an argument.