Border problem.

[gopokes83]

I gotta say this. Service in north Texas has been outstanding at all things manual. The craziest roof I’ve ever owned, was assaulted by 20 highly skilled roofing craftsmen. What took a week to do 12 years ago was done in 14 hours. And far superior.

Fencing. Tree doctors and trimmers. Concrete. Stone work. Doors and windows. ACs and hot water tanks. Floor sanders. Painters. Literal ditch digger. Window cleaner. Landscaper. Pool custom tile work. Garage door installers. Furniture delivery.

Come to think of it, the movers I dealt with on this latest move, were the only non hispanic folks involved. And they were terrible. The white guys think they can lift more than they actually can. The 2 black guys had a thing about turning furniture just right as to hit every door frame. The young lady and her wife out hustled both groups but I’m pretty sure it was the meth working.

Welp, that’s Yelp.

Should be their motto

When I owned my construction company I refused to hire illegals or any subs who did. “Juan has a cousin” has almost decimated the building trades as a career at least in S Texas and I’m guessing much farther north. One of the residential roofing contractors I used told me once after Hurricane Ike I believe that he was getting killed by a couple of competitors, one of which was getting guys straight out of the river. These guys were literally working for a spot to sleep on the floor and something to eat. How does a guy paying taxes, providing a decent wage to his workers, following safety guidelines, paying insurance and actually sticking around to cover any warranty work compete with that? It’s cool you got your roof done but if the company was using illegals there’s definitely more of a cost associated with it than you probably realized. Used to be that a guy could be a journeyman level finish carpenter or painter or whatever and make a decent living for his family, now you hear people saying that Mexicans (generalization) do the jobs that Americans won’t or refuse to do. That’s just not true, Americans can’t afford to choose those jobs as a career anymore and thrive, so guys don’t get into it for the long term, which in return creates more jobs for illegals, etc. We’re cutting our own throats to save a few bucks. Maybe it’s different in Northern states or states that are more Union based, but not here.


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[Polds4OSU]

When I owned my construction company I refused to hire illegals or any subs who did. “Juan has a cousin” has almost decimated the building trades as a career at least in S Texas and I’m guessing much farther north. One of the residential roofing contractors I used told me once after Hurricane Ike I believe that he was getting killed by a couple of competitors, one of which was getting guys straight out of the river. These guys were literally working for a spot to sleep on the floor and something to eat. How does a guy paying taxes, providing a decent wage to his workers, following safety guidelines, paying insurance and actually sticking around to cover any warranty work compete with that? It’s cool you got your roof done but if the company was using illegals there’s definitely more of a cost associated with it than you probably realized. Used to be that a guy could be a journeyman level finish carpenter or painter or whatever and make a decent living for his family, now you hear people saying that Mexicans (generalization) do the jobs that Americans won’t or refuse to do. That’s just not true, Americans can’t afford to choose those jobs as a career anymore and thrive, so guys don’t get into it for the long term, which in return creates more jobs for illegals, etc. We’re cutting our own throats to save a few bucks. Maybe it’s different in Northern states or states that are more Union based, but not here.


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Hrm,

You know the entire industry could Unionize, Create a Union situation where only people who can consistently prove they aren't using illegal workers will be allowed into the Union. Then you could work with Local Law makers to require all Jobs bid and done be done by Union Business's and force out any one not in the union or anyone using Illegal Labor.

I mean that is what the Teamsters and Cabbies did in NY and they have a strangle hold over that entire market and which companies operate and what/who can they can't they hire etc

However, the Right in this county has become so indoctrinated to this wild idea that Unions are bad that this isn't even something on the table in Right leaning states.

Unionize, take back your industry, work with the Local Lawmakers to ensure you industry is Union Only and push them out. Entire industries have already done this and did it 100 years ago. There is a historical precedence to follow and be successful with.

 

[GOGETUMPOKE]

If you average out the years and look at projections for 23 (for what they are worth) you are in the the neighborhood of the population of Kansas, New Mexico, and Nebraska have crossed during Biden's term. Or combine them and the population of Mass our 15th most populated state have come over. It's completely unsustainable. Border states can't handle that kind of flow of people and no one else wants them.

Meanwhile, we have sent Ukraine $130b so far this year to protect their border and will continue to fund them while our govt. is shut down. The annual GDP for the entire country of Ukraine is $200b. We will come close to matching that in aid to them this year while our border is essentially wide open. Keep in mind this is the same administration that forced their own citizens to shut down their business and ruined people's career for not getting vaccinated while allowing millions to cross our southern border completely unchecked.

 

[Polds4OSU]

Meanwhile, we have sent Ukraine $130b so far this year to protect their border and will continue to fund them while our govt. is shut down. The annual GDP for the entire country of Ukraine is $200b. We will come close to matching that in aid to them this year while our border is essentially wide open. Keep in mind this is the same administration that forced their own citizens to shut down their business and ruined people's career for not getting vaccinated while allowing millions to cross our southern border completely unchecked.

u seriously have no idea what Title 42 was do you. Title 42 was in place for 3 YEARS (from March 2020 to May 2023) where we were not admitting asylum seekers into the US based on COVID.....it was finally ended this last summer by Biden, and that is why all the Immigrants are now flooding the border. For 3 years they have been traveling to the US border and WAITING IN MEXICO to seek asylum when the US finally took down Title 42

The changes come with the end of coronavirus restrictions on asylum that have allowed the U.S. to quickly turn back migrants at the U.S.-Mexico border for the past three years. Those restrictions are known as Title 42, because the authority comes from Title 42 of a 1944 public health law allowing curbs on migration in the name of protecting public health.

 

[Bowers3]

u seriously have no idea what Title 42 was do you. Title 42 was in place for 3 YEARS where we were not admitting asylum seekers into the US based on COVID.....it was finally ended this last summer by Biden, and that is why all the Immigrants are now flooding the border. For 3 years they have been traveling to the US border and WAITING IN MEXICO to seek asylum when the US finally took down Title 42

The changes come with the end of coronavirus restrictions on asylum that have allowed the U.S. to quickly turn back migrants at the U.S.-Mexico border for the past three years. Those restrictions are known as Title 42, because the authority comes from Title 42 of a 1944 public health law allowing curbs on migration in the name of protecting public health.

It had an expiration date. The Biden administration just ended it a few months early. Also, the "shutdowns" happened during the Trump administration. Gogetum's rant was chalk full of falsities.

 

[Polds4OSU]

It had an expiration date. The Biden administration just ended it a few months early. Also, the "shutdowns" happened during the Trump administration. Gogetum's rant was chalk full of falsities.

Even his numbers are off. $130 Billion this year alone ? In the last Year and a HALF we have sent $76.8 Billion

How Much Aid Has the U.S. Sent Ukraine? Here Are Six Charts.

Six graphics illustrate the extraordinary level of support the United States has provided Ukraine in its war against Russian invaders.

www.cfr.org

 

[Llcoolw]

When I owned my construction company I refused to hire illegals or any subs who did. “Juan has a cousin” has almost decimated the building trades as a career at least in S Texas and I’m guessing much farther north. One of the residential roofing contractors I used told me once after Hurricane Ike I believe that he was getting killed by a couple of competitors, one of which was getting guys straight out of the river. These guys were literally working for a spot to sleep on the floor and something to eat. How does a guy paying taxes, providing a decent wage to his workers, following safety guidelines, paying insurance and actually sticking around to cover any warranty work compete with that? It’s cool you got your roof done but if the company was using illegals there’s definitely more of a cost associated with it than you probably realized. Used to be that a guy could be a journeyman level finish carpenter or painter or whatever and make a decent living for his family, now you hear people saying that Mexicans (generalization) do the jobs that Americans won’t or refuse to do. That’s just not true, Americans can’t afford to choose those jobs as a career anymore and thrive, so guys don’t get into it for the long term, which in return creates more jobs for illegals, etc. We’re cutting our own throats to save a few bucks. Maybe it’s different in Northern states or states that are more Union based, but not here.


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This is the only property I don’t do the yard work personally on. Too damn hot for oldy like me. Believe it or not. All high schoolers. And they are awesome at it.

As far as quotes go, I can’t shop based on price. I need HOA approved trades. . So these are some of the more costly groups. Some of these guys have been doing this for generations. They’re just that good. They are masteres with Oklahoma flagstone.

 

[gopokes83]

This is the only property I don’t do the yard work personally on. Too damn hot for oldy like me. Believe it or not. All high schoolers. And they are awesome at it.

As far as quotes go, I can’t shop based on price. I need HOA approved trades. . So these are some of the more costly groups. Some of these guys have been doing this for generations. They’re just that good. They are masteres with Oklahoma flagstone.

Of course not all Hispanics are illegally here, I’d never even hint at something that ignorant. Spain began settling here in Texas in 1680! Im speaking only of companies that hire illegals today and the damage being done to American contractors of all ethnicities by them.

Edit* The roofing contractor I was speaking about is Hispanic. The Mexican Americans here really don’t care for the illegals either.


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[DxCowboy]

Hrm,

You know the entire industry could Unionize, Create a Union situation where only people who can consistently prove they aren't using illegal workers will be allowed into the Union. Then you could work with Local Law makers to require all Jobs bid and done be done by Union Business's and force out any one not in the union or anyone using Illegal Labor.

I mean that is what the Teamsters and Cabbies did in NY and they have a strangle hold over that entire market and which companies operate and what/who can they can't they hire etc

However, the Right in this county has become so indoctrinated to this wild idea that Unions are bad that this isn't even something on the table in Right leaning states.

Unionize, take back your industry, work with the Local Lawmakers to ensure you industry is Union Only and push them out. Entire industries have already done this and did it 100 years ago. There is a historical precedence to follow and be successful with.

I worked in private and union electrical shops as a project manager. The waste I saw on the union side was absurd and shocking when I first got on board with the IBEW.

Your union only stance is ignorant.

 

[Polds4OSU]

I worked in private and union electrical shops as a project manager. The waste I saw on the union side was absurd and shocking when I first got on board with the IBEW.

Your union only stance is ignorant.

You do realize that not all unions are created the same and you can run a efficient and effective union right

 

[gopokes83]

You do realize that not all unions are created the same and you can run a efficient and effective union right

Most trade unions I’ve dealt with cause as much harm as they do good for their members, but I guess they may be able to keep illegals out.


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[steross]

Oh it's all nuanced but we are welding border gates open now. 43K or in between the population of Stillwater and Owasso the 10th and 11th biggest cities in Oklahoma walked through those gates in Tucson in July alone. We can stop that. Buses are stopping in plain sight of the border to let folks out to just walk across....that doesn't happen anywhere else on Earth. There is zero resistance to cross the border now. That has to stop...are you going to catch everyone, no....do we have to leave the door open with a "Come on in" sign, no. Love or hate Trump or Biden or both the dynamic changed at the election....the data is undeniable.

We can institute a robust worker visa program and tax it to at least pay for itself. We can fine property owners and businesses that hire illegals. We can create an actual decent path to citizenship. That will take time. What you can't do is label people crossing to get here for any reason asylum seekers to hurt the other party....or have states try to gain war powers. But something has to be done and nothing is being done now at the federal level.

Sort of like the fentanyl and meth problems. Rehab and treatment takes time. Trying to stop the cartels is impossible because they have such huge resources. But the problem is bad right now so we just need to enforce laws against drug users to stop people from using drugs right now. That will work, right?

You guys are looking in the wrong direction. We have a worker shortage. We have an inept government regarding immigration laws. We have countries with people desperate for jobs and businesses (who control government) wanting to hire them. The idea that we can stop that huge economic need by building fences and "closing the border" is on the same logic level as stopping the drug economy by arresting meth/fentanyl users.

 

[steross]

When I owned my construction company I refused to hire illegals or any subs who did. “Juan has a cousin” has almost decimated the building trades as a career at least in S Texas and I’m guessing much farther north. One of the residential roofing contractors I used told me once after Hurricane Ike I believe that he was getting killed by a couple of competitors, one of which was getting guys straight out of the river. These guys were literally working for a spot to sleep on the floor and something to eat. How does a guy paying taxes, providing a decent wage to his workers, following safety guidelines, paying insurance and actually sticking around to cover any warranty work compete with that? It’s cool you got your roof done but if the company was using illegals there’s definitely more of a cost associated with it than you probably realized. Used to be that a guy could be a journeyman level finish carpenter or painter or whatever and make a decent living for his family, now you hear people saying that Mexicans (generalization) do the jobs that Americans won’t or refuse to do. That’s just not true, Americans can’t afford to choose those jobs as a career anymore and thrive, so guys don’t get into it for the long term, which in return creates more jobs for illegals, etc. We’re cutting our own throats to save a few bucks. Maybe it’s different in Northern states or states that are more Union based, but not here.


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But you cannot fix this problem on the worker side. It must be fixed on the employer side.

 

[gopokes83]

But you cannot fix this problem on the worker side. It must be fixed on the employer side.

Sure. I’m sure you got it, but to reiterate the point of that post was that Americans no longer see those trades as a viable long term careers because they are no longer able to make a decent living doing them. That’s why you see unreliable meth looking dudes and drunks working construction giving American dudes a bad rap as being lazy and not as good of workers as illegals. They’re willing to work cheap. Contractors that will hire illegals aren’t going to pay a top carpenter 26-30 bucks an hour plus when he can hire two or three guys that are kind of good at what they’re doing for that. You said in another post that we have a worker shortage. We don’t, what we have are people using that rationale to hire cheap illegal labor to keep cost down and maximize their profits. So yes, you’re absolutely correct, until we actually enforce our laws and penalize the employers and the consumers this will be a real problem.


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[steross]

Sure. I’m sure you got it, but to reiterate the point of that post was that Americans no longer see those trades as a viable long term careers because they are no longer able to make a decent living doing them. That’s why you see unreliable meth looking dudes and drunks working construction giving American dudes a bad rap as being lazy and not as good of workers as illegals. They’re willing to work cheap. Contractors that will hire illegals aren’t going to pay a top carpenter 26-30 bucks an hour plus when he can hire two or three guys that are kind of good at what they’re doing for that. You said in another post that we have a worker shortage. We don’t, what we have are people using that rationale to hire cheap illegal labor to keep cost down and maximize their profits. So yes, you’re absolutely correct, until we actually enforce our laws and penalize the employers and the consumers this will be a real problem.


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I think both can be true. If you look at demographics, without immigration we have a large shortage of workers due to decreased birth rates.

If we wanted this to actually stop the immigration, we would not just need to enforce the laws which amount to slap-on-the-wrist fines, we would need to change the system and prosecute with jail time and/or loss of business license.

Here is an example, 14 yo immigrant working overnight shift in chicken plant gets his arm shredded off. No penalty for the employer. But, we will just focus on the border and blaming the poor.

The Kids on the Night Shift

For Marcos Cux — and thousands of other migrant children — working dangerous jobs that violate child-labor laws is the only American dream there is.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Okstatekerr]

Of course not all Hispanics are illegally here, I’d never even hint at something that ignorant. Spain began settling here in Texas in 1680! Im speaking only of companies that hire illegals today and the damage being done to American contractors of all ethnicities by them.

Edit* The roofing contractor I was speaking about is Hispanic. The Mexican Americans here really don’t care for the illegals either.


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That’s how my grandmother on my dad’s sides family got here. They came over from Spain in the 1500s and eventually settled in Texas. They stayed after Texas gained its independence. That side of the family are all staunch republicans and Trump supporters. I don’t talk to them very much.

 

[Llcoolw]

Of course not all Hispanics are illegally here, I’d never even hint at something that ignorant. Spain began settling here in Texas in 1680! Im speaking only of companies that hire illegals today and the damage being done to American contractors of all ethnicities by them.

Edit* The roofing contractor I was speaking about is Hispanic. The Mexican Americans here really don’t care for the illegals either.


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Wasn’t intending you implied that. Sorry if it reads that way.

I did hear an interesting tidbit and don’t know the veracity of it.

I’m helping a recent first generation Brazilian family settle in Fort Worth. They told me something pretty racist that not only they believe in but said most of central and South America blue collar workers live it.

Those who are more obviously from Spanish decent sit higher in these societies than those of Mayan decent. Basically, red tints in your skin gives you a higher likelihood of being in manual labor.

I never thought or heard of or noticed it. But now that it’s in my consciousness, I did notice the ones directing the labor weren’t red. And the ones hammering and working and sweating were. Now that’s just a sample size of about 30 but I couldn’t but help notice it now.

 

[Llcoolw]

I think both can be true. If you look at demographics, without immigration we have a large shortage of workers due to decreased birth rates.

If we wanted this to actually stop the immigration, we would not just need to enforce the laws which amount to slap-on-the-wrist fines, we would need to change the system and prosecute with jail time and/or loss of business license.

Here is an example, 14 yo immigrant working overnight shift in chicken plant gets his arm shredded off. No penalty for the employer. But, we will just focus on the border and blaming the poor.

The Kids on the Night Shift

For Marcos Cux — and thousands of other migrant children — working dangerous jobs that violate child-labor laws is the only American dream there is.

www.nytimes.com

Hmmmmmm. 14 year old Hispanic arm meat. Ok. Curiosity got me, I’ll try it.

 

[gopokes83]

That’s how my grandmother on my dad’s sides family got here. They came over from Spain in the 1500s and eventually settled in Texas. They stayed after Texas gained its independence. That side of the family are all staunch republicans and Trump supporters. I don’t talk to them very much.

Give ‘em a call, might learn something!! J/K


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[gopokes83]

Wasn’t intending you implied that. Sorry if it reads that way.

I did hear an interesting tidbit and don’t know the veracity of it.

I’m helping a recent first generation Brazilian family settle in Fort Worth. They told me something pretty racist that not only they believe in but said most of central and South America blue collar workers live it.

Those who are more obviously from Spanish decent sit higher in these societies than those of Mayan decent. Basically, red tints in your skin gives you a higher likelihood of being in manual labor.

I never thought or heard of or noticed it. But now that it’s in my consciousness, I did notice the ones directing the labor weren’t red. And the ones hammering and working and sweating were. Now that’s just a sample size of about 30 but I couldn’t but help notice it now.

Absolutely! Being called an Indio is almost like the N word around these parts. Fightin words!!


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