Border problem.

[Bowers3]

This is one of the big changes....

The demographics changing of who is crossing now has contributed to the surge. We have always had tons of folks crossing....too many....regardless who is in office but with the current policies in place the word is out to everyone. Come on over we aren't doing anything about it. Unaccompanied minors and persons from places other than Mexico have gone through the roof. I read an article saying the change in policy has dramatically lowered the costs. Used to be you had to figure out a way to get from your home to the border then pay a hefty amount or perform dangerous tasks in order to get your escort across the border because if you were caught you were more than likely expelled.....now you just need a bus ticket to walking distance. While the bulk is still is people from Mexico/Central America persons from as far as China have been apprehended walking across to Texas.

Absolutely. I just also think a big part of the discussion needs to be about "why" they feel the need to come. I just read an article about the two back-to-back major hurricanes that hit the Honduras/Guatemala/Nicaragua/El Salvador region that turned large swaths of farmland into lakes. Farmers who lost everything and can't rebuild, and yes with the more "open" border it's less expensive to put yourself in the hands of US law than to try and farm again. There's also the recent lawlessness with MS-13 taking over whole towns. It's bad down there.

What I also find ironic is that Central Americans are largely religious conservatives. They vote blue because of the Republican immigration rhetoric. If Republicans would change that rhetoric and maybe propose common sense immigration reform (easier pathway to citizenship, etc) they may never lose an election again.

 

[Donnyboy]

If you average out the years and look at projections for 23 (for what they are worth) you are in the the neighborhood of the population of Kansas, New Mexico, and Nebraska have crossed during Biden's term. Or combine them and the population of Mass our 15th most populated state have come over. It's completely unsustainable. Border states can't handle that kind of flow of people and no one else wants them.

 

[Bowers3]

If you average out the years and look at projections for 23 (for what they are worth) you are in the the neighborhood of the population of Kansas, New Mexico, and Nebraska have crossed during Biden's term. Or combine them and the population of Mass our 15th most populated state have come over. It's completely unsustainable. Border states can't handle that kind of flow of people and no one else wants them.

Poor timing for the Democrats I guess with the influx the last couple years. They need get on it and formulate an actual policy.

 

[Donnyboy]

Absolutely. I just also think a big part of the discussion needs to be about "why" they feel the need to come. I just read an article about the two back-to-back major hurricanes that hit the Honduras/Guatemala/Nicaragua/El Salvador region that turned large swaths of farmland into lakes. Farmers who lost everything and can't rebuild, and yes with the more "open" border it's less expensive to put yourself in the hands of US law than to try and farm again. There's also the recent lawlessness with MS-13 taking over whole towns. It's bad down there.

We can't fix the why....we will never fix the why. We can't build thriving economies all over the globe....we don't control the economic policies of these places...we can't control disasters in these areas....we can't change the resources of all these nations...we are currently tanking our own as fast as we can. You have to stop it at the line. I don't blame anyone crossing I would do the same.

We also aren't anywhere close to capturing the total cost of this. Schools have no idea what to do with the influx of non-english speaking kids for example. The other one that I have highlighted that never gets discussed is wage suppression. I mentioned this on the old board but my dad used to some residential construction work. In small town Eastern Oklahoma in the 90's I made 10 bucks an hour working on other crews....electrician helper, laborer etc....entry level construction work... a few years back between jobs I was a project manager for a custom home builder in DFW. The craft was 99% latino and they were all making $10-12/hour for the entry level jobs...a great deal of it cash payments. So the same work has had little to no wage increase from 90's small town OK to 2018 in one of the hottest construction markets in the nation. That's one reason folks can't make it. If you take the lowest year averages of crossings at 400K we have 12 million (number is easily twice that) people here now willing to do the work for less. People can't make a living wage at these jobs anymore in huge parts of the country....you can't count on work like this to bridge gaps between better employment.

 

[Donnyboy]

Poor timing for the Democrats I guess with the influx the last couple years. They need get on it and formulate an actual policy.

It's more than timing it's also the reversal of Title 42. Used to be the primary practice after apprehension was immediate expulsion back to the country of origin or last country of transit. Now you are processed and given a court date and disappear. This dramatically reduced the cost and the downside of crossing in one fell swoop.

Obama's numbers were low. Part of this was the economic collapse immediately prior to his term creating less supply of jobs part of this was stronger security. Then Trump came along and invoked Title 42 and blathered on about a wall (which I never was a fan of but looks better and cheaper all the time). There were still crossings but the policy was if you are caught you are kicked out. The whole asylum seeker narrative that was purely political forced the dems to treat anyone that showed up at any place for any reason to go through the courts. Courts that can't process 2.7 million a year.

 

[Bowers3]

It's more than timing it's also the reversal of Title 42. Used to be the primary practice after apprehension was immediate expulsion back to the country of origin or last country of transit. Now you are processed and given a court date and disappear. This dramatically reduced the cost and the downside of crossing in one fell swoop.

Obama's numbers were low. Part of this was the economic collapse immediately prior to his term creating less supply of jobs part of this was stronger security. Then Trump came along and invoked Title 42 and blathered on about a wall (which I never was a fan of but looks better and cheaper all the time). There were still crossings but the policy was if you are caught you are kicked out. The whole asylum seeker narrative that was purely political forced the dems to treat anyone that showed up at any place for any reason to go through the courts. Courts that can't process 2.7 million a year.

Wasn't Title 42 just a pandemic policy? And didn't it have an expiration date? Man, I don't know. Just seems like you're playing the blame game as usual in US political discourse. I try not to do that. Everyone wants the same thing. Just different ideas on how to get there.

 

[Donnyboy]

Wasn't Title 42 just a pandemic policy? And didn't it have an expiration date? Man, I don't know. Just seems like you're playing the blame game as usual in US political discourse. I try not to do that. Everyone wants the same thing. Just different ideas on how to get there.

But US politics fits here....I'm not blaming one side either.

I keep highlighting that Obama had low numbers to show this isn't a GOP closes it up Dems are a free for all. The political side is on steriods now. It is currently political forces that are making this a disaster. The whole asylum seeker thing was purely political to make the first tough talking pres look racist playing to the base....the bussing around is purely to make these liberal cities/states look bad playing to the base. There are as you have alluded to tons of reasons people want to leave there situation. But we will never have control of that. Ever. It's political BS that caused the numbers to quintuple...it political BS that will have folks freezing in tents brought to you by the same people that drove the bus that put them there. There are clips that a five second search to find of current politicians saying a few years ago the opposite of what they are now...dems saying "we have to stop the flow of illegal immigration" when Obama is in saying "these policies are racist towards asylum seekers". Life didn't change that much in the entirety of Latin America....the rules for seeking asylum didn't change at all. Ever hear the term sanctuary city before 2016 I'm sure they existed but could you name one or ever hear it on the news? I don't think it's coincidence that the strongest measures in left leaning state like Illinois' Trust Act started Spring of 17. Border towns have been reeling for years ever see GOP governors bus people under Clinton or Obama? It's not a coincidence that just started to make Dems look bad. You have both sides going to the border and acting like a tough guy that is gonna stop it or taking fake photo ops crying. We have a crisis with hundreds of symptoms but the disease is politics. You can't promise to close the border and build a wall then do nothing....you can't call what's be done racist and then do nothing. It's a truly horrible situation but it is one of our own making playing politics....it's the culmination of years from both sides instead of working for solutions.

 

[Polds4OSU]

It's more than timing it's also the reversal of Title 42. Used to be the primary practice after apprehension was immediate expulsion back to the country of origin or last country of transit. Now you are processed and given a court date and disappear. This dramatically reduced the cost and the downside of crossing in one fell swoop.

Obama's numbers were low. Part of this was the economic collapse immediately prior to his term creating less supply of jobs part of this was stronger security. Then Trump came along and invoked Title 42 and blathered on about a wall (which I never was a fan of but looks better and cheaper all the time). There were still crossings but the policy was if you are caught you are kicked out. The whole asylum seeker narrative that was purely political forced the dems to treat anyone that showed up at any place for any reason to go through the courts. Courts that can't process 2.7 million a year.

and our Immigration court...EVERY judge has a 300 yr back log assigned to them right now.

We don't have enough Immigration Judges, Immigration Lawyers or COURT ROOMS to process these immigration cases.

We should be hiring 80,000 Immigration Lawyers and Judges and expanding court room access at the border instead of hiring IRS agents.

It is unrealistic to give an immigrant a court date and then have your judge with a 300 year back log. There IS a simple answer. Massively expand the immigration courts, relocate them to the border, expand the number of public immigration lawyers that can represent these immigrants and hire a bunch of judges so the back log is only 1-2 weeks.

THEN we close the borders, get caught up on ALL of the back Log. Then re-open the borders with the expectation that an immigrant shows up at the border, is taken into custody, they are assigned a Lawyer within a couple days while detained and get a court date and appearance within a week and then are either accepted and admitted or rejected and deported.

NO ONE wants to take this approach and fix the problem because there is No Political Advantage that can be gained from RESOLVING the issue. Both the GOP and the DEM parties get Positive political points with their base on the topic. Therefore they won't fix it, because then it is one less platform they can count on to drum up votes.

It is a side effect of NOT having term limits and people trying to remain in political power for decades upon decades. Without term limits the entire political game is about amassing wealth and power year after year and any lever you have that you can pull to get votes is a POWEFUL tool you don't ever want to be taken away......no resolving or fixing problems

 

[Donnyboy]

Shouldn’t you close the border first? How many judges are you gonna hire? 2.76 million last year…1.8 the year before….over 2 already this year….hire 80k judges, which I doubt there are that many qualified; and you still have over 60 cases a piece just from the last three years not counting the lawyers and others required to support this. We have to stop the flow now or you will never hire enough people to keep up. We have to close then border that’s step one. Close and maintain as much as possible the southern border. Then get to work on everything else. Illegal crossings aren’t new. 2.7 million is what’s new. We can do a lot to stop that now.

And at what cost? Can you set up a judges office for a million a year? Salary, staff, we don’t that courtrooms so real estate, admin cost benefit costs….has to be a million right? So 8 billion a year and not stop the flow?

 

[Vakarian74]

My issue with the immigration issue today is to me we have gone from “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" to we only want you if you can give us value. I understand things change but that seems really far from where came from in this country.

 

[Polds4OSU]

My issue with the immigration issue today is to me we have gone from “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" to we only want you if you can give us value. I understand things change but that seems really far from where came from in this country.

We've also gone for a country that implemented social Security at a time when corporate profits were taxed at a 71% rate and are now down in the upper 20's and low 30's and expect Social Security can still continue and be a thing

We've also gone from a Tax the Corporate Wealth for the good of all American's to a screw you stop taking MY MONEY

 

[Polds4OSU]

Shouldn’t you close the border first? How many judges are you gonna hire? 2.76 million last year…1.8 the year before….over 2 already this year….hire 80k judges, which I doubt there are that many qualified; and you still have over 60 cases a piece just from the last three years not counting the lawyers and others required to support this. We have to stop the flow now or you will never hire enough people to keep up. We have to close then border that’s step one. Close and maintain as much as possible the southern border. Then get to work on everything else. Illegal crossings aren’t new. 2.7 million is what’s new. We can do a lot to stop that now.

And at what cost? Can you set up a judges office for a million a year? Salary, staff, we don’t that courtrooms so real estate, admin cost benefit costs….has to be a million right? So 8 billion a year and not stop the flow?

Then you get into a COVID Title 42 sitation. It doesn't matter if the border is open or closed, they are going to keep coming. Thats what Title 42 was all about, they kept coming and kept coming and kept coming and hanging out in Mexcio, and then the US ended title 42 and NOW we have a crap ton flood of imigrants. Just because we close it doesn't mean they aren't going to stop coming.


REALITY check. our current Immigration law REQUIRES you to report yourself in PERSON at the Point of Entry BEFORE you can apply for immigration status.

How about we take that online huh and STOP requiring them to show up at the border in PERSON.

They are showing up because we REQUIRE them to as part of the law.

At the very least we should require them to present themselves at the nearest US Embassy OR Online and that is the Only way they can apply for immigration.

I find it hilarious we tell them in the law to come to the border and present themselves for immigration consideration and then we bitch and moan when they actually show up at the border. IT IS ALL POLITICAL THEATRE

 

[Polds4OSU]

I also find it extremely hilarious that some "news" outlets have convince large swaths of Americans that terrorists from ISIS, Hezbollah, Taliban etc etc have their foot soldiers marching across the Mexican border into the US

What a crock

The US has an entire process to BYPASS immigration completely if you can prove your willing to and have the means to invest at least $500k on US soil.

All these major terrorists organizations aren't going to risk their foot soldiers getting captured crossing the Rio Grand...they are intelligent, control entire counties and have access to vast supplies of Middle Eastern oil money

They will buy their way here and then "hire" and relocate their foot soldiers on work visas to the US and not take any risk of being caught or exposed at a border crossing

 

[OSU79]

My issue with the immigration issue today is to me we have gone from “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" to we only want you if you can give us value. I understand things change but that seems really far from where came from in this country.

Haha, that's a good one. You quote the inscription on the Statue of Liberty as if it were government policy instead of simply a gift from France. Ellis Island, where early immigrants were processed, was used to check immigrants for disease and detain them until they had a job or a sponsor to ensure they could contribute to their own support. Many, many immigrants were held for months at Ellis Island before they were allowed "into" America. I don't know when any such policy was last enforced, but we've been through many admistrations for each party since.

 

[JTOSU]

We've also gone for a country that implemented social Security at a time when corporate profits were taxed at a 71% rate and are now down in the upper 20's and low 30's and expect Social Security can still continue and be a thing

We've also gone from a Tax the Corporate Wealth for the good of all American's to a screw you stop taking MY MONEY

How are you equating changes to effective corporate tax rates and SS viability?

BTW, I don’t think there has ever been a non-war time that America has been “Tax the Corporate Wealth”.

 

[Vakarian74]

Haha, that's a good one. You quote the inscription on the Statue of Liberty as if it were government policy instead of simply a gift from France. Ellis Island, where early immigrants were processed, was used to check immigrants for disease and detain them until they had a job or a sponsor to ensure they could contribute to their own support. Many, many immigrants were held for months at Ellis Island before they were allowed "into" America. I don't know when any such policy was last enforced, but we've been through many admistrations for each party since.

No crap it was our mentality that has changed.

 

[gopokes83]

No crap it was our mentality that has changed.

Not really, we passed the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882 shortly before the SoL was erected that banned almost anyone from China from immigrating to the US for 10 years but actually stuck around in one form or another well into the 20th century. We’ve never been that accepting of one group or another since colonial times.

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[Polds4OSU]

Not really, we passed the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882 shortly before the SoL was erected that banned almost anyone from China from immigrating to the US for 10 years but actually stuck around in one form or another well into the 20th century. We’ve never been that accepting of one group or another since colonial times.

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The Irish were actually the first group of people the US banned from immigration to the US in the 1840s

The Irish were the first targets of deportation policy in the US

In the 1840s, destitute Irish-Americans were seen as foreign and often sent back to Europe

www.irishtimes.com

 

[gopokes83]

The Irish were actually the first group of people the US banned from immigration to the US in the 1840s

The Irish were the first targets of deportation policy in the US

In the 1840s, destitute Irish-Americans were seen as foreign and often sent back to Europe

www.irishtimes.com

Lots of folks discriminated against before the Irish, but sure! I was just saying at the time the poem The New Colossus was put on the Statue of Liberty things weren’t all Kum Ba Ya here in the states.


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[Llcoolw]

I gotta say this. Service in north Texas has been outstanding at all things manual. The craziest roof I’ve ever owned, was assaulted by 20 highly skilled roofing craftsmen. What took a week to do 12 years ago was done in 14 hours. And far superior.

Fencing. Tree doctors and trimmers. Concrete. Stone work. Doors and windows. ACs and hot water tanks. Floor sanders. Painters. Literal ditch digger. Window cleaner. Landscaper. Pool custom tile work. Garage door installers. Furniture delivery.

Come to think of it, the movers I dealt with on this latest move, were the only non hispanic folks involved. And they were terrible. The white guys think they can lift more than they actually can. The 2 black guys had a thing about turning furniture just right as to hit every door frame. The young lady and her wife out hustled both groups but I’m pretty sure it was the meth working.

Welp, that’s Yelp.

Should be their motto