C'mon now. You know if the Clintons had been able to, the bodies never would have been found.
WSJ: What’s Missing in the Trump Indictment
- Thread starter RxCowboy
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C'mon now. You know if the Clintons had been able to, the bodies never would have been found.
Conservatives and their weird obsession with the Clinton’s while at the same time bitching at Democrates with trump. It’s a wild phenomenon.
Don't disagree and this subject goes weirdly both ways. It is the perfect time to use this:
HacklemanPoke
Deputy
He is a serial liar who has cheated on all 3 wives. He initially claimed knowing nothing about the payments and then when the tape between he and cohen came out discussing the payment for coverup of another alleged affair w Karen McDougal (for which he paid $150,000). If you look at the 2 stories of the women they share remarkable similarities. And the amounts to “make both stories disappear” are in the same ballpark.
She’s lost in court on defamation incidents bc she sued him and had to pay attorneys fees.
Clinton had to pay not to cover up but to settle sexual harassment. 2 completely different issues. Now I’m sure he tried to pay hush money but his payment was a result of a public settlement approved by a court. That isn’t remotely in the same ballpark as paying hush money to a porn star 6 days before an election.
October of 2016 was an absolute shit show for the trump campaign. 1st week is the Access Hollywood. 3 weeks later this is about to explode and it would have absolutely had an impact. It’s why he paid the money and why cohen had to hurriedly take out a second mortgage. The money couldn’t come from trump and they couldn’t reach out to anyone else for fear of story getting out.
Also interesting is that Melania has been no where close to this fiasco. Didn’t go to NYC to support her husband. Didn’t attend the presser back at Mar-a-Lago when he returned that night.
There is no one to blame for this but Trump. No one. No what about Bill. Not SoL. He made every decision that led to the Grand Jury.
And Bill Clinton is a choir boy?
My biggest problem with Clinton, and one that you won't even acknowledge, is that Lewinski was in fact an employee of his and that the power difference between them was the biggest imaginable, an intern and the leader of the free world. Thus there isn't a chance in hell that the relationship was consensual in any understanding of the term, or that it wasn't coercive or abusive. On the other side you have Trump, a well known scum bag and serial cheater, and two women of zero repute and you want me to give a damn about it. I'm sorry, it's the first one, the abuse of power that gets me angry. The only reason it doesn't you is because of what team Clinton plays for.
I can't stand Trump. There isn't anything that we can find out about Trump that can make me have any more contempt for him. But this prosecution is also wrong. Two things can be true at the same time.
You don’t know me. Clinton abused his fudging power and shouldn’t have been able to stay in office. I hate Hillary. You are the one that defends bad people because dems. I don’t talk about the Clinton’s because they hold no position of power any more. Get the fuck over it. Trump has always and will always try and skirt the law. He was a piece of shit in the 70’s and he’s a piece of shit now. I also never heard you say anything about Trump trying to investigate his political opponents. He did so with Hillary and with Biden.
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You really should ask someone’s position on a subject before opening your fudging mouth. But you assume you know because like everyone else you are party over country even though you try and say other wise.
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You've already made your position known...
Now I've made my position on my problem with Clinton pretty damn clear. And instead of dealing with it you're all "you don't know me". It's a wild phenomenon. Trump is a scumbag and serial cheater, as is Clinton, but Trump hasn't come anywhere near the abuse of power that Clinton did with Lewinski.
HacklemanPoke
Deputy
Bill should have left office (forced to leave) when the truth about Lewinsky came out. But I can’t figure out why you’ve staked the position on this w trump that you have. My recollection from some of your previous posts going back to the old board is that while conservative you were always well reasoned and took time to read articles and made sure they tied to your point. But w Trump you seem to be rushing to carry water. Abusing your power or using your perceived power to get your way is always despicable. But both of those guys are equally despicable. Trump is an effing billionaire and he is grifting off of people who can’t afford lunch tomorrow. Then he brags about it. And to pretend he doesn’t abuse women??? Get real. Listen to his own words “And because you’re a star they let you do it. You can just walk up and grab em by the p****.” Go read the story of how he conned both Stormy and McDougal. They didn’t work for him but he definitely used his power and position the same way Bill did w Monica all for his own gratification.
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I’m the one not defending either. You continue to say my side isn’t as bad as the other.
Not "my side". I'm not a Trumpian. I didn't want him in 2016. I voted for Kasich in the Ohio primary. I voted for the Libertarian candidate in the 2020 general election, the first time in my life I've voted for a non-Republican in a national election because I couldn't vote for Trump and I wasn't about to vote for Biden (can't even remember who the Libertarian was). After the Jan 6 BS I'm no longer registered Republican because I don't want to be associated with that garbage. You keep making partisan statements "Conservatives and their weird obsession with the Clinton’s" and then calling others partisan while not seeing your own partisanship. It's BS.
Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing, Trump may have done with either porn stars is as bad as what Clinton did what Lewinski not because of the parties involved, but because of Clinton's abuse of power over a young girl. In the Oval Office. Then committed perjury. Period. Stop evading it.
Stop. The power difference isn't even close to the same. It can't be. These women aren't Trump's employees. They aren't White House interns and he was not the Leader of the Free World. It is difficult to imagine a greater power difference between two people. You are just excusing it because of the D behind Clinton's name.
HacklemanPoke
Deputy
I’m not excusing it at all. I’m saying once the facts came out on bill he should have had to suffer all consequences in accordance w the law and processes for dealing w such. I have zero problem w him being impeached for lying under oath for oral sex. Same for suspended law license.
If someone acts in a manner that is in violation of law or w just plain indecency they shoul be afforded the protections our processes and systems and societal norms lay out and suffer the consequences as laid out.
That’s why I’ve said w trump that if he didn’t want to be charged don’t Cheat on your wife (which while not illegal carries consequences that he suffered which include financial consequences and familial consequences). Don’t cry when your lies and coverups are exposed. And don’t moan when you potentially violate the law by committing violations in your business. If he did those things he should go through the legal process and if a jury finds him guilty suffer the consequences.
Sure, except there are problems with the charges. Trump should not be above the law, nor should the DA. We're going to have to see how the DA is going to get the charges to survive the motions to dismiss because of the jurisdiction and limitation problems with the charges. There is also the 6th amendment issue. If you are going to allege concealment, then you have to specify what crime is being concealed so that the defendant can prepare a defense. Bragg said he didn't have to in the indictment. Every analyst on every news channel I've watched has said that's untrue. At some point he's going to have to specify what crime he is alleging Trump was trying to conceal.
HacklemanPoke
Deputy
And if there are problems with the charges and/or SoL were expired (which will be an incredibly fascinating legal process) then if he walks my problem won’t be with the process or system it will be with the 70ish million fellow citizens that think a serial cheater/con/grifter is the best answer we have.
We currently have zero challenges to the theory that a sitting President cannot be charged. We also have zero challenges to the theory that SoL are tolled while a President is in office. Not to mention the potential challenges to state executive orders tolling SoL. If I’m his team I’m trying to bust those and I’m sure they are. This will end up in SC.
Right now we have at least 12 fellow citizens who saw/heard enough evidence to say “Yep let’s bring charges”. That’s the way the system works. Whether it’s right or wrong or we agree/disagree. Next step is for pre trial motions. Let the system play out. I see know way this is resolved before nov2024.
It’s interesting that we hear/read legal “experts”opine and I’ve also watched some of these “experts” say he’s in real trouble here and the only thing that might save him is the process.
I think he has more serious issues to battle on the legal front in the months ahead. I think the documents case and potential obstruction charges have to be the most serious threat. I mean the guy went on Hanity and basically admitted to keeping the documents to extort the government. Sean couldn’t get out of that line of questioning fast enough and trump kept word vomiting.
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I think a New York GJ is like 20 or so. The GJ doesn't have to be unanimous (maybe 2/3s? can't remember), the rules of evidence are different, and there is no defense. There is no voir dire of a GJ and the defense doesn't get to object to anyone sitting on a GJ. So, the fact that a GJ hands down an indictment isn't per se evidence of guilt.
You can indict a ham sandwich. Seems like I heard that before