US continues to go backward...

From Van Jones today (posted on Twitter and Facebook):

When we’re arguing about I.C.E., we’re not actually arguing about immigration policy. We’re arguing about legitimacy. And we’re doing it while watching two completely different movies…

I spent the last week really listening to the voices on all sides of this conflict. ICE agents. Protesters. Conservatives. Progressives. Undocumented families. Police Officers. Gov’t officials. Here’s the uncomfortable truth:

Each side thinks it is the reasonable one. Each side thinks the other side is lying or insane. And each side—at SOME level—actually has a point.

Conservatives see law enforcement under attack. Progressives see unchecked federal power running roughshod over neighborhoods. Same events. Totally different data sets and frameworks.

This outcome isn’t by accident. Algorithms are feeding us different videos, headlines and emotional cues. Again: we are not watching the same movie!

From inside the conservative worldview: If enforcement fails, we lose the country. Blocking ICE looks like blocking firefighters.

From inside the progressive worldview: If ICE overreach isn’t resisted now, authoritarianism becomes normal. NOT protesting feels like surrendering democracy.

Neither side is pretending. Both are reacting to real fears. But both are missing critical parts of the picture. Here’s a test of good faith when discussing the I.C.E. issue: Can you name the other side’s deepest fear in a way they’d agree is fair?

We can have constitutional enforcement and legitimate protest. Safety and freedom. But not if we keep letting social media trick us into believing the absolute worst about everyone who disagrees with us.
I don't think it's a stretch to say I'm one of the most "leftist" people on this board. I'm trying to see it from the other side, I really am. I'm not sure there's a day I wake up that I don't think "am I crazy? am I being manipulated by social media? Is trump really not that bad? Are we really not heading towards authoritarianism"?.

I just can't bring myself to understand the "we won't have a country if we don't deport every single immigrant" point of view. I do believe it's a very "real" fear people have, that's not based in reality.

We have ICE agents killing people, kidnapping people, raping people, busting down doors without warrants, racial profiling, etc. The Constitution is being violated on an hourly basis. That's not to mention the 10,000 other horrific things trump has done in the last 12 months.

So which is more likely? Our country falling because of immigrants, or because it's being systematically dismantled on purpose (as was laid out very plainly in P2025)?

Are my fears based in reality? Or am I crazy?
 
They aren't the same, but they are not as different as you seem to think. Funding of government vs benefits received are more complex than what you wrote.

The government allowing me to keep some of my own money vs the government requiring me to fund their programs with some of my money is different by definition of their own rules. Until they change the rules, a tax credit isn't comparable to a tax fund.
 
I think it's important to "zoom out" and remember that the United States has been a force for anti-fascism in the world especially during the 20th century. That we are still trying to live up to our founding principles. I think people are scared of the changes they see coming in the second half of this century. Donald Trump (Stephen Miller) conned a lot of people by hitting on those fears. It's not that MAGA doesn't have legitimate concerns, they just elected a wolf in sheep's clothing. I do very much believe we have a fascist executive branch right now.

But a fascist country? No. I believe if you think the US is a fascist country that your bar for fascism is too low. Ask an immigrant. They'll tell you one thing that annoys them most is how ignorant Americans are of how good we have it here.

As for being in "the middle," I just think social media has supercharged division. I've deleted all social media, I haven't "doom scrolled" in months and I can already feel the difference. It's just completely different than reality. So when my liberal friends talk down to conservatives or vice versa, I don't know it just irks me. People only have their opinions of other peoples opinions that have been filtered by an algorithm only meant to confirm beliefs.
I disagree that the US has been a force for anti-fascism in the world outside of World War II. We weren't even a force for anti-fascism right after the war, as we supported the fascist Fransisco Franco in the Spanish Civil War and he remained in power until 1975 when he died. We had a similar trajectory with Peron in Argentina. Fascism is not that common in world history, so I think it is important to take it seriously when it arises and when movements meet those criteria in word and deed, to treat them as they are.

You mentioned that only our executive branch is fascistic, but it would not wield the power it has without the supreme court giving it that power and more importantly republicans in congress falling in line every step of the way to bend to trump's will. Look at what they say, what they do, what laws they pass and what actions they support. Its nearly the entire republican party at this point.
 
Sure if you think straight white married Americans are the gatekeepers of heaven and people with gage earrings and dyed hair are going to burn in hell.
Do you even know who the woman in the picture is? Or did you just knee jerk because I'm the one who posted it? Wow!
 
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Do you even know who the woman in the picture is? Or did you just knee jerk because I'm the one who posted it? Wow!
Settle down there MAGA boy. It was my reaction bc the picture basically encapsulated all of my critiques of modern American “Christianity.”

Regardless of identity it portrays a straight white couple wrapped in Americanism in front of what are supposed to be the Gates of Heaven while making a judgement about people based on how they look while they burn and are tortured in a literal hell.
 
Settle down there MAGA boy. It was my reaction bc the picture basically encapsulated all of my critiques of modern American “Christianity.”

Regardless of identity it portrays a straight white couple wrapped in Americanism in front of what are supposed to be the Gates of Heaven while making a judgement about people based on how they look while they burn and are tortured in a literal hell.
All you had to say was "yes, knee jerk", Libby girl.

Hint: the woman in the picture isn't "straight". Nor are they a "couple".🙄
 
All you had to say was "yes, knee jerk", Libby girl.

Hint: the woman in the picture isn't "straight". Nor are they a "couple".🙄
It’s no wonder you’re the perfect mark for your loved leader. I read your posts and your attempt at witty responses and like Trump it drips w the same maturity as his Nobel Peace Prize letter to Norway.
 
It’s no wonder you’re the perfect mark for your loved leader. I read your posts and your attempt at witty responses and like Trump it drips w the same maturity as his Nobel Peace Prize letter to Norway.
Typical, ignore the subject and throw out personal insults. It's no wonder you're the perfect mark for indoctrination.
 
Typical, ignore the subject and throw out personal insults. It's no wonder you're the perfect mark for indoctrination.
I responded to the subject in my first post. What more do I have to address other than the fact you throw out what I’m guessing is an attempt at an insult by calling me a girl. Misogynist much?

Why is the gender fixation so prevalent in Magastan?
 
I responded to the subject in my first post. What more do I have to address other than the fact you throw out what I’m guessing is an attempt at an insult by calling me a girl. Misogynist much?

Why is the gender fixation so prevalent in Magastan?
You started that b.s. with the maga boy comment. Dish but can't take. Libby Lou.
 
Good old GOP Values.

We've come to the point if your a Republican you are fully supporting Racist values, policies and views.

Republican unapologetic after leaked chat exposes her message advocating for segregated schools, says it’s ‘a win-win proposition’​


link


James Fishback pushes white nationalism into Florida GOP's race for governor​

link

Nick Fuentes is well known as a white supremacist and anti-semite. That hasn't stopped Trump and at least 5 GOP lawmakers from associating with him since 2017.​

link
 
I'd like to hear from some of our resident MAGA's about their concerns with Kamala, and what the country would look like under her.

My understanding is that the main fears were:
  • Economy crashing (?)
  • World leaders not taking us seriously
  • Open borders
  • Socialism (?)
  • New wars
  • Mandatory trans surgeries (lmfao)?
Our economy is crashing, world leaders are literally telling our president to f*ck off, and we're starting new wars like it's our job.

I think the main concern was open borders. Ok, so what would happen, realistically, if immigrants flooded the country? Not Fox news talking points, like what would the negative ramifications actually be? Biden apparently let in 25 million undocumented immigrants. What has been the main negative result of that? My guess, and what you won't say out loud, is that it threatens the American 'way of life', whatever that means.

Every single concern that I had with trump being elected has come true, and then some.

I don't want to own Greenland or Venezuela. I don't want ICE to have a $28b yearly budget. I don't want to bomb Iran. I don't want pedos protected. I don't want the govt. telling me what I can and can't do with my body, or what I can or can't teach my children. I don't want our status in the world being eroded every single day. I don't want to be embarrassed to be an American

I want healthcare for every single American citizen, regardless of job status. I want lower cost of living - housing and groceries. I want every single person associated with Epstein to face consequences. I want to wake up every morning and not have to think "what fresh hell is this regime getting us into today". I want to be proud to be an American again.
 
The funny thing about this is Don Lemon published this on his own social media accounts.
Do you think a misdemeanor justifies what ICE is doing in Minnesota? Or is this just a super lame attempt at a gotcha?

Key Characteristics of Misdemeanors:
  • Criminal Offense: It's a violation of criminal law, meaning a prosecutor must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
  • Lesser Severity: More serious than minor infractions (like jaywalking) but less severe than felonies (like murder or burglary).
  • Punishments: Usually involve jail time in a county jail (under a year), significant fines, probation, or community service.
  • Examples: Common examples include disorderly conduct, trespassing, first-time DUI, and minor vandalism
 
Do you think a misdemeanor justifies what ICE is doing in Minnesota? Or is this just a super lame attempt at a gotcha?

Key Characteristics of Misdemeanors:
  • Criminal Offense: It's a violation of criminal law, meaning a prosecutor must prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
  • Lesser Severity: More serious than minor infractions (like jaywalking) but less severe than felonies (like murder or burglary).
  • Punishments: Usually involve jail time in a county jail (under a year), significant fines, probation, or community service.
  • Examples: Common examples include disorderly conduct, trespassing, first-time DUI, and minor vandalism

A bunch of men who did nothing but seek asylum were sent to a foreign prison for torture by our government.
- Meh, so.

A CNN correspondent called a misdemeanor not a crime.
- OMFG! This country is going to hell !!!!!!!!!!!
 
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