I've run across that one. Another good one that has influenced me much is "How to read the Bible for all it's worth" by Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart. My literary approach to scripture is heavily influenced by them.
Philosophy & Religion Thread
- Thread starter GratefulPoke
- Start date
Psalms 23
A PSALM OF DAVID.
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
3 He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.
Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. This was the topic of tonight's mini-sermon in our recovery group at church. The lesson afterwards was on "God's discipline". The problem with all of it is people conflate discipline and punishment. They are not the same thing. The pastor talked about how the staff provided guidance when a sheep would wander astray and bring the sheep back into the fold. Good. But then he talked about the protection provided by the rod. When a sheep wandered a little farther the rod might have to be applied and cause a little pain to get the sheep back into line. Oh no. That is not at all what the rod represents in the psalm. It represents protection alright. From predators. It is used.... against wolves. Not against the sheep. A shepherd, a good shepherd would understand that.
Discipline is routines and practices intended to produce good behavior. Think of practicing sports or music or anything that it takes great discipline to get good at. Punishment is retribution for bad behavior. Tackling drills are discipline. Prison is punishment. Spanking is not discipline, it is punishment.
I've heard this illustration from the pulpit before:
Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
Substitute the word "punish" for "make disciples of" and it really turns the Great Commandment on its head, "Go therefore and punish all nations". Why would anyone want to be a disciple if it meant punishment? Self-discipline and self-punishment would mean the same thing, and they are very, very different.
In the Book of Job, Job's friends tried multiple times to convince Job that what was happening to him was because of sin in his life, that it was retribution for something he had done. But God had declared at the beginning of the book that Job was righteous man. This does not mean that Job was sinless, of course he wasn't. It means that when Job sinned he dealt with it righteously. God said to Job's friends, "You have not said of me what is right." The book of Job is a specific refutation of retribution theology, also known as tit for tat.
Hebrews 12:7-11
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
The Greek word translated "discipline" is παιδεία paideia, or education and training. Again, it means routines and practices intended to bring about good behavior. Not punishment. God does not punish us to bring about good behavior.
1 John 4:8 God is love.
A PSALM OF DAVID.
1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters.
3 He restores my soul.
He leads me in paths of righteousness
for his name’s sake.
4 Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.
5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies;
you anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me
all the days of my life,
and I shall dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.
Your rod and your staff, they comfort me. This was the topic of tonight's mini-sermon in our recovery group at church. The lesson afterwards was on "God's discipline". The problem with all of it is people conflate discipline and punishment. They are not the same thing. The pastor talked about how the staff provided guidance when a sheep would wander astray and bring the sheep back into the fold. Good. But then he talked about the protection provided by the rod. When a sheep wandered a little farther the rod might have to be applied and cause a little pain to get the sheep back into line. Oh no. That is not at all what the rod represents in the psalm. It represents protection alright. From predators. It is used.... against wolves. Not against the sheep. A shepherd, a good shepherd would understand that.
Discipline is routines and practices intended to produce good behavior. Think of practicing sports or music or anything that it takes great discipline to get good at. Punishment is retribution for bad behavior. Tackling drills are discipline. Prison is punishment. Spanking is not discipline, it is punishment.
I've heard this illustration from the pulpit before:
A young lamb kept wandering off. It is well-known in Christian circles that before the shepherd placed the lamb on his shoulders, he broke its leg, so it could not run away again. By the time the leg has healed the lamb has learned to stay near the shepherd. This was common practice in Jesus’ day, and so is implied in this and other shepherding texts. Because the shepherd uses this cruel-to-be-kind tactic, we can expect that there will be times when Jesus, our Good Shepherd, will do the same to us. And we, as shepherds of our children, will need to use corporal punishment to teach them not to stray.
There may be consequences to our behavior. But God does not purposefully hurt us "for our own good." After hearing this I actually emailed the editor of an academic journal dedicated to sheep and asked her if it could be true and she said that most likely the lamb would die and that it couldn't possibly be true. She also told me an interesting story that her sheep know the pitch of her truck engine and will gather to be fed when they hear her truck coming. "My sheep know my voice." They won't gather for the pitch of another truck engine, just hers. "My sheep know my voice."Matthew 28:19-20
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.
Substitute the word "punish" for "make disciples of" and it really turns the Great Commandment on its head, "Go therefore and punish all nations". Why would anyone want to be a disciple if it meant punishment? Self-discipline and self-punishment would mean the same thing, and they are very, very different.
In the Book of Job, Job's friends tried multiple times to convince Job that what was happening to him was because of sin in his life, that it was retribution for something he had done. But God had declared at the beginning of the book that Job was righteous man. This does not mean that Job was sinless, of course he wasn't. It means that when Job sinned he dealt with it righteously. God said to Job's friends, "You have not said of me what is right." The book of Job is a specific refutation of retribution theology, also known as tit for tat.
Hebrews 12:7-11
7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. 11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
The Greek word translated "discipline" is παιδεία paideia, or education and training. Again, it means routines and practices intended to bring about good behavior. Not punishment. God does not punish us to bring about good behavior.
1 John 4:8 God is love.
How do I know that the rod in Psalm 23 is for protection against predators? Because David has a testimony:
1 Samuel 17:34-36
(NASB) But David said to Saul, “Your servant was tending his father’s sheep. When a lion or a bear came and took a lamb from the flock, 35 I went out after him and attacked him, and rescued it from his mouth; and when he rose up against me, I seized him by his beard and struck him and killed him. 36 Your servant has killed both the lion and the bear; and this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, since he has taunted the armies of the living God.”
1 Samuel 17:34-36
(NASB) But David said to Saul, “Your servant was tending his father’s sheep. When a lion or a bear came and took a lamb from the flock, 35 I went out after him and attacked him, and rescued it from his mouth; and when he rose up against me, I seized him by his beard and struck him and killed him. 36 Your servant has killed both the lion and the bear; and this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, since he has taunted the armies of the living God.”
Hey friends. Current pastor of a small and very broken congregation. If you ever want to smoke a cigar with a pastor, give me a holler.
I am dying to know what your dissertation was on and where you studied.
We need to talk because pastoring a small, broken bunch of hurting people interests me.
Almost a year ago to the day began the hardest and yet joy-filled year in life/church. Would love to chat anytime.
My dad was a pastor of a small-town Word of Faith church for 20 years. He has the biggest heart of anyone I know and was an amazingly caring ‘shepherd’.
One member didn’t like how he was spending money on updating the church and constructing a new building. They started spreading rumors and the church was headed for a schism. My father cared more about the church community than his own job, so he proposed that he would stay on a short time until the church was out of debt and had selected a new pastor. That’s what happened.
My father moved on without any bitterness, but we all knew how much this hurt him. He had come in and rescued this church from the brink of failure. He had poured his heart into caring for these people. In the end, many of them rejected him and were frankly hateful.
I hope this doesn’t happen to either of you. But the church is people. People are flawed. That is why they need this type of leader. It is also why they hurt and reject compassionate and visionary leadership—biting the hand that feeds them.
One member didn’t like how he was spending money on updating the church and constructing a new building. They started spreading rumors and the church was headed for a schism. My father cared more about the church community than his own job, so he proposed that he would stay on a short time until the church was out of debt and had selected a new pastor. That’s what happened.
My father moved on without any bitterness, but we all knew how much this hurt him. He had come in and rescued this church from the brink of failure. He had poured his heart into caring for these people. In the end, many of them rejected him and were frankly hateful.
I hope this doesn’t happen to either of you. But the church is people. People are flawed. That is why they need this type of leader. It is also why they hurt and reject compassionate and visionary leadership—biting the hand that feeds them.
Yeah, no, people suck. Love them perfectly and they hang you on a cross. But still love them.
Something similar has already happened, and we all are coming to the end of the saga, Lord willing. But God has been incredibly kind to reveal my shortcomings and sin through it all. I have come to love the calling of being an under-shepherd more and thus the folks Jesus shed his blood for. Even when they bite.
Polds4OSU
Marshall
Multiple US officials as Whistleblowers have confirmed the existence of Aliens and UFO's publicly for the first time ever in the last few years
Key Claims:
Key Claims:
Key Claims:
Key Claims:
Key Claims:
Key Claims:
Obama said it just last week that statistically it is almost impossible that Aliens don't inhabit other planets but said we have not had any contact yet
Then TODAY we have this story
A US congressman claims a foreign nation is in possession of a crashed alien spacecraft so massive that authorities have had to construct an "entire building around it".
Missouri congressman Eric Burlison says he has heard reports of a crashed UFO located somewhere outside the US that is so enormous it can never be moved. "I'm not going to mention the country because I heard of it inside of a closed setting, and I want to protect my classification level," he added. It comes as a Pentagon whistleblower releases 'high-res image of alien mothership' in sign of UFO life.
Speaking to Rob Finnerty on Newsmax, Rep. Burlison voiced his frustration at being unable to personally investigate the alleged craft, despite widespread reports the US government is set to release a significant update on its research into UFOs later this year.
"I'm having a difficult time getting access to facilities that are just within a few miles from my office in Washington, D.C.," Burlison said. He added: "So, to try to attempt to go to another country and get permission at that level is going to be somewhat insurmountable. But it doesn't mean that I'm not going to continue to try."
Burlison added that if he were ever to obtain concrete proof of alien visitors' existence, he would not hesitate to make it public: "If I come under any hard evidence, whether it's physical or video evidence that is absolutely definitive, whilst I'm going to do what I can to protect our national security and our nation's interest, I will not hold back on telling the American people that we are alone or not alone in this universe."
Rep. Burlison added: "That is something that no government has the right to withhold from its people."
Whilst he declined to identify the nation reportedly harboring the "craft", renowned UFO investigator Dr Steven Greer who appeared alongside Burlison in the Newsmax interview, proved far more willing to share specifics.
He stated that he has contact with someone involved in a classified Pentagon program examining these rumored interstellar craft, and this contact "specifically knew of one [alien spaceship] in the mountains outside Seoul, South Korea. It was so huge they had to build a structure around it".
Noting that as a private individual he is not subject to the same secrecy requirements as Rep. Burlison, Greer asserted that multiple alien craft had been "brought down," and that some of them were "bigger than a football field."
Now all that said....I grew up in a family where I was specifically taught that Aliens, Cryptozoological sightings and Ghost (which I've experienced Personally) were ALL created by and tools of Satan and the Devil was creating these things to entice Humans to question the Belief in God and it was some big psyop being run by Satan on the Human Race.
So questions
Are they Real?
if they Are real ..are they Children of God?
Is it possible Satan has entire planets of beings dedicated to him as God?
The Bible Tells me specifically there is a very real and vibrant spirit world....wouldn't this make Ghost Extremely real and viable ?
Is it possible that God created other inhabited planets and they have their own version of the Bible and maybe even their own different path to salvation, relationship and story with God?
1. David Grusch
Former U.S. Air Force intelligence officer and representative to the Pentagon’s Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Task Force.Key Claims:
- Alleged the U.S. government has retrieved several “non‑human origin technical vehicles”, some containing “dead pilots.” [stripes.com]
- Testified under oath that the U.S. has run a multi‑decade crash retrieval and reverse‑engineering program. [newsnationnow.com]
- Claimed individuals with direct knowledge told him about non‑human craft and biological remains.
2. Ryan Graves
Former U.S. Navy pilot and Executive Director of Americans for Safe Aerospace.Key Claims:
- Testified that U.S. sensor and video data would change the national conversation if the public could see it.
- Did not allege extraterrestrial craft directly, but supported claims that UAP encounters demonstrate extraordinary, unexplained technology.
[stripes.com]
3. David Fravor
Former U.S. Navy Commanding Officer, known for the 2004 USS Nimitz “Tic Tac” encounter.Key Claims:
- Testified about personal encounters with UAP showcasing flight characteristics beyond known U.S. capabilities.
- Did not explicitly claim extraterrestrial craft but provided testimony backing the idea that some UAP may not be human-made.
[newsnationnow.com]
4. Tim Gallaudet
Retired Navy Rear Admiral and former oceanography commander.Key Claims:
- Testified about encountering UAP showing “flight and structural characteristics unlike anything in our arsenal.”
- Stated such encounters occurred in operational Navy training environments.
[newsweek.com]
5. Michael Gold
Former NASA official.Key Claims:
- Testified that secrecy surrounding UAPs is obstructing scientific progress.
- Suggested non‑human technology may be involved but did not claim first‑hand knowledge.
[nbcnews.com]
6. Luis Elizondo
Former Pentagon official who once directed the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP).Key Claims:
- Asserted in congressional testimony that “UAP are real” and interacting with humanity.
- Implied advanced intelligence may be involved but did not explicitly claim recovered alien craft.
[yahoo.com]
Obama said it just last week that statistically it is almost impossible that Aliens don't inhabit other planets but said we have not had any contact yet
Then TODAY we have this story
Congressman says there is a stranded UFO in a country outside of the US that is so big 'there's a building built around it'
A US congressman claims a foreign nation is in possession of a crashed alien spacecraft so massive that authorities have had to construct an "entire building around it".
Missouri congressman Eric Burlison says he has heard reports of a crashed UFO located somewhere outside the US that is so enormous it can never be moved. "I'm not going to mention the country because I heard of it inside of a closed setting, and I want to protect my classification level," he added. It comes as a Pentagon whistleblower releases 'high-res image of alien mothership' in sign of UFO life.
Speaking to Rob Finnerty on Newsmax, Rep. Burlison voiced his frustration at being unable to personally investigate the alleged craft, despite widespread reports the US government is set to release a significant update on its research into UFOs later this year.
"I'm having a difficult time getting access to facilities that are just within a few miles from my office in Washington, D.C.," Burlison said. He added: "So, to try to attempt to go to another country and get permission at that level is going to be somewhat insurmountable. But it doesn't mean that I'm not going to continue to try."
Burlison added that if he were ever to obtain concrete proof of alien visitors' existence, he would not hesitate to make it public: "If I come under any hard evidence, whether it's physical or video evidence that is absolutely definitive, whilst I'm going to do what I can to protect our national security and our nation's interest, I will not hold back on telling the American people that we are alone or not alone in this universe."
Rep. Burlison added: "That is something that no government has the right to withhold from its people."
Whilst he declined to identify the nation reportedly harboring the "craft", renowned UFO investigator Dr Steven Greer who appeared alongside Burlison in the Newsmax interview, proved far more willing to share specifics.
He stated that he has contact with someone involved in a classified Pentagon program examining these rumored interstellar craft, and this contact "specifically knew of one [alien spaceship] in the mountains outside Seoul, South Korea. It was so huge they had to build a structure around it".
Noting that as a private individual he is not subject to the same secrecy requirements as Rep. Burlison, Greer asserted that multiple alien craft had been "brought down," and that some of them were "bigger than a football field."
Now all that said....I grew up in a family where I was specifically taught that Aliens, Cryptozoological sightings and Ghost (which I've experienced Personally) were ALL created by and tools of Satan and the Devil was creating these things to entice Humans to question the Belief in God and it was some big psyop being run by Satan on the Human Race.
So questions
Are they Real?
if they Are real ..are they Children of God?
Is it possible Satan has entire planets of beings dedicated to him as God?
The Bible Tells me specifically there is a very real and vibrant spirit world....wouldn't this make Ghost Extremely real and viable ?
Is it possible that God created other inhabited planets and they have their own version of the Bible and maybe even their own different path to salvation, relationship and story with God?
“There will be others, not of this fold.”
Congressman says there is a stranded UFO in a country outside of the US that is so big 'there's a building built around it'
It's Chernobyl isn't it.
It's Chernobyl isn't it.
Polds4OSU
Marshall
South Korea actually, in the Mountains
Alright fine. Where did you see this?
A reminder that there is a separate thread for discussing Christian nationalism.
So we have had a lot of posts on religion, how about a few on philosophy? What schools of philosophy or philosophers stand out to you?
I only took one philosophy class in college (Logic and Critical Thinking), and while it was an incredibly useful class, I am pretty much a novice in this topic.
I only took one philosophy class in college (Logic and Critical Thinking), and while it was an incredibly useful class, I am pretty much a novice in this topic.
Big guess we are all novices here on philosophy.
I've dabbled in some stoics, mostly Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus. Big fan of Epictetus, wish I could live up to his philosophy. Have mentioned secular Buddhism but honestly have just seen some videos and things.
Have this on my reading list, just have not gotten to it yet:
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