Philosophy & Religion Thread

[RxCowboy]

Yeah.....their cosmology is VERY VERY VERY different. I used to invite the local missionaries in to my house every Wend to talk or just hang out and I would ask them questions and they would attempt to convert me.

I had heard of Kolob from others and I decided to ask them about it one day. It was two missionaries and an Elder and Below is an AI summary of what they told me.

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Joseph Smith while traveling America in the 1800's ran into a traveling merchant where he purchased Egyptian papyri and mummies in 1835. Among the mummies was a hypocephalus, a small circular funerary disc placed under a mummy’s head for protection and for illuminating the deceased in the afterlife.

Per their beliefs Joseph Smith was able to interpret the Hypocephalus hieroglyphics and determined it told the story of a Planet called Kolob.


Egyptologists, however, note that:

• The hypocephalus depicts Egyptian deities, especially Re, Hathor, and Amun‑Re.
• The central figure Smith calls Kolob is traditionally the god Re seated in a solar bark or sometimes the four‑headed ram god representing divine creative power.

So Kolob is Joseph Smith’s reinterpretation of Egyptian images, not an ancient Egyptian concept itself.

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Although “Kolob” is not Egyptian, parts of the cosmology described in Abraham 3 resemble ancient Near Eastern and Egyptian thought. Scholars argue that:

a. Ancient Egyptian astronomy was geocentric​

Both Egyptian and other ancient cultures imagined:

• stars and heavenly bodies fixed in ordered spheres,
• higher/outer bodies governing the lower ones.

The Book of Abraham describes:


This hierarchical slow‑movement = higher authority principle matches Egyptian cosmological symbolism, where:

• encircling something connotes governing it,
• outer celestial bodies were associated with greater power.

b. The hypocephalus itself symbolizes divine light and cosmic order​

Egyptian hypocephali were designed to:

• bring heat/light to the deceased,
• represent cosmic creation,
• depict the daily rebirth of the sun.

Joseph Smith’s interpretation uses similar themes:

• governance,
• proximity to the divine throne,
• cosmological hierarchy.

c. The symbolic parallel: Kolob as “the governing one”​

Modern LDS‑affiliated Egyptologists sometimes argue that Kolob functions symbolically like:

• the Sun (Ra)—the chief governing celestial body,
• the central star in an ordered cosmos.

In LDS commentary, Kolob even functions as a symbol of Christ, the “nearest to God.” [informedsa...castos.com]

These symbolic roles overlap with how Egyptians viewed the solar deity.


So in their summary what they told me was

Kolob is a celestial body somewhere in space. They describe it as a Giant very bright planet like object that is actually the Home Planet of God and Jesus or is Actually God (I was never clear on that). The Closer you are to God the closer to the Planet Kolob you get to reside in the afterlife. The further away from God you are on Earth, the further away from Kolob you will be in the afterlife. Kolob is the source of all light in the area of Space it is located and if you are a sinner , then you can't be in the light of Kolob in the afterlife and you are cast into the "Outer Darkness" (they don't believe in Hell).

And those beliefs are all based on Joseph Smith buying and translating old artifacts found in ancient Egyptian Mummies and Egyptian Papyrus Scrolls written in Hieroglyphics ...where he was able to buy these Egyptian artifacts and mummies from a traveling sales person

Ohh and the Garden of Eden is somewhere in the continental US

And Dinosaurs were an Alien species that traveled to Earth on an Asteroid and some of them were able to survive their asteroids impact on Earth and then multiplied and was an Alien species that Ruled Earth for a few Million Years before they died off because this wasn't their home Planet and they couldn't adapt enough to survive.

Some Native Americans are descendants of ancient Israelites and are called Lamanites and at one point they used to teach that ALL Native Americans were Lamanites. (For Many Years they taught that the natives darker skin was their marking as a Lamanite and through Righteousness God would turn their skin lighter until they turned White.)

At one time they taught that all Native Americans came from the Jewish Family called Lehi who was an Israelite prophet from Jerusalem in 600 BC and they left Israel right before the destruction of the Tower of Babylon, Built Ships on God's command and sailed across the Ocean and settled in America "The Promise Land"

Which all sounds a whole lot like a mix of new age mysticism and Platonic gnosticism and...

 

[steross]

Honestly, and I hope this isn't offensive, I'm always fascinated when people of faith in a religion, no matter which one, that makes no objective sense to people who are not of that religion discuss the errors and strange beliefs of other religions. And, yes, by nature of my personal geography, I have heard it from Christians more than others. But, I have chatted in Indonesia with Muslims and Buddhists in Sri Lanka, listening to them explain the issues with the other competing religions in their areas. I had a couple of beers with a Mexican who was adamant that Catholicism was the only way due to the certainty of the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe (Mary) in Mexico City.

The best though was when our Buddhist tour guide took us to a huge temple that was there to enshrine a small part of Buddha, like a tooth or a hair. It was only a little smaller than GIA. There was a very small Hindu shrine on the sidewalk leading up to this temple. As we walked up, our driver who was Buddhist went into the Hindu shrine and left an offering. Confused, I asked him why, and he said, "Well, just in case."

 

[RxCowboy]

Honestly, and I hope this isn't offensive, I'm always fascinated when people of faith in a religion, no matter which one, that makes no objective sense to people who are not of that religion discuss the errors and strange beliefs of other religions. And, yes, by nature of my personal geography, I have heard it from Christians more than others. But, I have chatted in Indonesia with Muslims and Buddhists in Sri Lanka, listening to them explain the issues with the other competing religions in their areas. I had a couple of beers with a Mexican who was adamant that Catholicism was the only way due to the certainty of the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe (Mary) in Mexico City.

The best though was when our Buddhist tour guide took us to a huge temple that was there to enshrine a small part of Buddha, like a tooth or a hair. It was only a little smaller than GIA. There was a very small Hindu shrine on the sidewalk leading up to this temple. As we walked up, our driver who was Buddhist went into the Hindu shrine and left an offering. Confused, I asked him why, and he said, "Well, just in case."

I kinda discussed this in another thread, can’t remember which one, when we were discussing “what is a cult?” A cult depends entirely on who is doing the defining. Christianity was certainly considered a cult by first century Jews and Romans.

Most of the world doesn’t get as hung up on particulars as do the fundamentalists of any particular religion, and most of the world are not fundamentalists. Maybe I had some fundamentalist leanings once upon a time but I certainly am not one now.

 

[Polds4OSU]

I kinda discussed this in another thread, can’t remember which one, when we were discussing “what is a cult?” A cult depends entirely on who is doing the defining. Christianity was certainly considered a cult by first century Jews and Romans.

Most of the world doesn’t get as hung up on particulars as do the fundamentalists of any particular religion, and most of the world are not fundamentalists. Maybe I had some fundamentalist leanings once upon a time but I certainly am not one now.

Trying to explain The Eucharist to a Non Christian can be VERY HARD to do...sometimes you sound like a cannibal , some times your explaining a spiritual event, and some times you just see it as a symbolic gesture.

I met multiple Muslims while at OSU and spent time dining with them and we swapped questions about our Religion. The thing was, they had Heard ALL 3 things below and wanted me to explain why one was right or better than the other....I struggled to do that

1. Catholics & Orthodox Christians​

• They believe the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus in a spiritual way.
• It’s a sacred mystery, not meant to be scientifically explained.

2. Many Protestants​

• They see the bread and wine as symbols that help them remember Jesus.
• Still important, but understood more as a memorial.

3. Some Churches (like Lutherans)​

• Believe Jesus is spiritually present in a special way, even if the bread and wine don’t literally change.

I also struggle with trying to explain the Triune God because while at the Core Catholics, Baptists and Lutherans all believe in it, they also teach it very differently and when someone has heard all 3 teachings and ask me to define all the nuances and why each branch has a slightly different teaching of it

 

[RxCowboy]

I also struggle with trying to explain the Triune God because while at the Core Catholics, Baptists and Lutherans all believe in it, they also teach it very differently and when someone has heard all 3 teachings and ask me to define all the nuances and why each branch has a slightly different teaching of it

Taco: meat, cheese, tortilla. The meat is not a taco…

 

[GratefulPoke]

Taco: meat, cheese, tortilla. The meat is not a taco…

Are you a panentheist?

 

[Bowers3]

Atoms and void and nothing else.

 

[CptnQuirk]

Atoms and void and nothing else.

Multi-dimensional is my take. God is the only being of the highest dimension, whether it’s 11, 33, 37 or any other higher order. The rest of the Heavenly beings, our souls included, are of a lower dimension. Our bodies are locked into this 4 dimension universe which we inhabit. That’s a semi-scientific explanation.

 

[RxCowboy]

Multi-dimensional is my take. God is the only being of the highest dimension, whether it’s 11, 33, 37 or any other higher order. The rest of the Heavenly beings, our souls included, are of a lower dimension. Our bodies are locked into this 4 dimension universe which we inhabit. That’s a semi-scientific explanation.

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[Polds4OSU]

Multi-dimensional is my take. God is the only being of the highest dimension, whether it’s 11, 33, 37 or any other higher order. The rest of the Heavenly beings, our souls included, are of a lower dimension. Our bodies are locked into this 4 dimension universe which we inhabit. That’s a semi-scientific explanation.

It is highly possible.
They are theoretically possible and Mathematically possible with the top 4 leading Physics theories predict 5-11 extra dimensions.

CERN has proven that information in quantum states can mathematically live in 37 dimensions at once