Philosophy & Religion Thread

[Polds4OSU]

Do you mind me asking where you grew up? I've met people that were raised very similarly to you and they are almost always from rural eastern Oklahoma. If you don't care to answer, no hard feelings.

Middle of No-Where between Checotah and Eufaula in Rural Eastern Oklahoma.....but didn't get REALLY into the crazy stuff with Race in the Church until I lived in rural Louisiana.

Everything from Church to School in Calcasieu Parrish in Louisiana was very Heavily based on Race and Racial tensions in that area were VERY high. Never seen anything quite like it that since. It was a DAILY topic and led to race inspired fights on a weekly basis at school.

This was where I heard with my own ears the reason our Pastor (which we moved with from Oklahoma to Louisiana and helped him build his church there) wouldn't marry a couple in the church was because the guy was a Person Of Color and the Pastor flat out told the family those people were not welcome at our church.

That was when I first noticed something wasn't right because the things school, the world, Life was teaching me wasn't lining up with what this Pastor was saying. I had Two Best Friends when this happened. One was Black and one was Hispanic. We lived in the same Trailer Park Together and my church was telling me they were different and dangerous and that Christians shouldn't associate with them.

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[osuwhit]

Middle of No-Where between Checotah and Eufaula in Rural Eastern Oklahoma.....but didn't get REALLY into the crazy stuff with Race in the Church until I lived in rural Louisiana.

Everything from Church to School in Calcasieu Parrish in Louisiana was very Heavily based on Race and Racial tensions in that area were VERY high. Never seen anything quite like it that since. It was a DAILY topic and led to race inspired fights on a weekly basis at school.

This was where I heard with my own ears the reason our Pastor (which we moved with from Oklahoma to Louisiana and helped him build his church there) wouldn't marry a couple in the church was because the guy was a Person Of Color and the Pastor flat out told the family those people were not welcome at our church.

That was when I first noticed something wasn't right because the things school, the world, Life was teaching me wasn't lining up with what this Pastor was saying. I had Two Best Friends when this happened. One was Black and one was Hispanic. We lived in the same Trailer Park Together and my church was telling me they were different and dangerous and that Christians shouldn't associate with them.

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Man.. I'm sorry you went through that.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

I didnt fully remember until about 4 years ago. My family basically just ignored it(they did stop it) between remembering that and the reasons I ended up divorced has caused me to be very open about subject that are uncomfortable or embarrassing. I've realized one of the big reasons we have the mental health issues we have is because we try and avoid those feeling and lock them away until the cause so many other problems we lose ourselves. I know that this has caused me to swing to far the other way at times. It also has made me a lot more sensitive to how others treat others, which causes me to sometimes go to far with how I treat those that I feel don't treat others as they deserve to be treated. It's also caused me to talk about the molestation a lot and man it's eye opening the epidemic we have of people being molested. It feels like it's been like 60 percent of people I have told that have said they were also.

Thank you both. I think everything I have gone through has made me want more conversations about religion and faith because it's I just don't understand how people can see the things in the world and be so sure there's a god.

Doesn’t have to prove the existence for you bc that’s your journey, but to me the way your posts come across showing compassion and empathy for the marginalized after the trauma and loss you have experienced shows me that maybe there is something out there. That’s to me and me only. Doesn’t have to be yours or anyone else’s life experience. To have the strength and courage you show is amazing.

 

[Fl_Poke]

If anyone is interested in the differences between UPC, Word of Faith, etc. i would be happy to discuss.

My wife's family is UPC. Their legalism and treatment of women is unbearable.

My mother-in-law currently lives with us and watching hershows me how fear based their cult is. They all have a huge fear of death because if they aren't saved at the moment of death they are hell bound. You can lose your salvation at any moment. She even refuses to look at the TV.

I could go on for days about how wrong and nutty they are.

Deny the trilogy, must be baptized in the name of Jesusonly, must be baptized for salvation andmust speak in tongues for salvation.

Zero grace.

They started at a revival in L.A. in 1935. That means everyone before that went straight o hell.

They use very little of the Bible. Gotta keep the people in the dark about what the Bible really says.

Ok, forcing myself tonstop.

 

[osuwhit]

I grew Episcopalian and not a very good one in that we went through seasons of our lives going and then getting lazy and not attending. I was confirmed in the church when I was 13. I still remember Father Ken telling me he'd confirm me into the church if I promised to go to church every Sunday. What was I supposed to say? I'll try my best? I still feel bad about not going often enough, but it was a good church and I appreciate my experience there.

In college I wasn't a good Christian. I wasn't awful to people, but I sinned and without care. I went through a really sad atheist stage, but realized it wasn't healthy for me.

As an adult, and thanks mainly to my wife, I've become a better Christian and church goer. I have a lot to work on.

 

[RxCowboy]

My wife's family is UPC. Their legalism and treatment of women is unbearable.

My mother-in-law currently lives with us and watching hershows me how fear based their cult is. They all have a huge fear of death because if they aren't saved at the moment of death they are hell bound. You can lose your salvation at any moment. She even refuses to look at the TV.

I could go on for days about how wrong and nutty they are.

Deny the trilogy, must be baptized in the name of Jesusonly, must be baptized for salvation andmust speak in tongues for salvation.

Zero grace.

They started at a revival in L.A. in 1935. That means everyone before that went straight o hell.

They use very little of the Bible. Gotta keep the people in the dark about what the Bible really says.

Ok, forcing myself tonstop.

You find *some* of that among almost all Pentecostals, and to varying degrees among evangelicals depending on where they fall on the Calvin-Arminius spectrum. I have heard AG ministers say that they don’t want to die with unrepented sins because they could go to hell even though that isn’t consistent with AG doctrine.

My own understanding of hell is not consistent with AG doctrine.

 

[RxCowboy]

The United Pentecostal Church is the largest of the "oneness" pentecostal churches. The doctrine that makes them most distinct from other Christian church is their doctrine of the Godhead.

The vast majority of Christian churches are trinitarian, they believe that the Godhead is The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, God in three persons who coexist on one God, coequal eternal and inseparable and yet distinct. It is difficult to explain and comprehend. I've used an analogy of a taco. In order to have a taco you have to have meat, cheese, and tortilla. Without meat, with only cheese and tortilla, you do not have a taco. Without cheese, with only meat and tortilla, you do not have a taco. With only tortilla, with only meat and cheese, you do not have a taco. When you have meat, cheese, and tortilla, coexistent, coequal, inseparable, and yet distinct, you have a taco. That's the Godhead.

The UPC has a different view. God has existed in different modes. They believe that God once was the Father. Then was Jesus. And now is the Holy Spirit. The analogy is a loaf of bread: first was the wheat, then was the flour, now is the loaf. The Trinitarian world declared this heresy at the council of Nicaea in 325 AD and again at the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD.

I can't remember all the code language that UPC uses, it has been many years since I've interfaced with them. The major code, though, is "Have you been baptized in The Name?" Unlike Trinitarians they do not baptize "In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." They "baptize in the name of Jesus." They also believe that you have not been saved unless you've spoken in tongues, which is "an outward sign of the indwelling" of the Holy Spirit. They focus on "holiness" which means following rules, which means they are a very works-based faith. They are Arminian, which means they believe that you can reject salvation and back slide, and indeed, they believe that you could be condemned to hell (I'll talk about hell in another post) if you die with unrepented sins. It is a VERY fear-based faith. My very first encounter with UPC was through Chick tracts, which were very popular in the 70s and 80s and are just awful.

 

[OrangeFan69]

I'll go with any religion that gets up back at the top of the Big 12.

 

[RxCowboy]

I'll go with any religion that gets up back at the top of the Big 12.

 

[PF5]

We have left behind the American church primarily bc of how it treats people. I realize that is a gross generalization made worse by social media. But I want no part of a religion or “faith” that treats people so anti Jesus.

The question is do you BELIEVE by how you treat people. Not just the person in your Life Group or who you sit beside on Sunday. But how do you treat the person w a different orientation. Different religion. Different nationality. We treat people from other faiths so bad just bc we won the birth lottery of being born in America.

these two statements really hit me...I wholeheartedly agree and have felt the same way for many moons! thanks for sharing...

 

[RxCowboy]

these two statements really hit me...I wholeheartedly agree and have felt the same way for many moons! thanks for sharing...

I have a friend who pastors a small Pentecostal church way out in the bayou of Louisiana. I don’t know if they still do or not, but they used to work the gay pride parade in New Orleans every year. He asked me once about relationships. One thing that I’ve learned through my marital travails is that when communication breaks down the relationship breaks down, without communication there is no relationship. So at the gay pride parade this little Pentecostal church from the bayou served coffee and donuts and talked with people. They did not preach, they didn’t quote scripture. They communicated. They created relationships. If someone asked a direct question they would answer, but they would speak the truth in love in a non judgmental way.

And that’s where “othering” fails. Jesus called us to reach the world with the Gospel. You cannot reach those that you other, that you reject, that you break off communication with. Without communication there can be no relationship.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

I have a friend who pastors a small Pentecostal church way out in the bayou of Louisiana. I don’t know if they still do or not, but they used to work the gay pride parade in New Orleans every year. He asked me once about relationships. One thing that I’ve learned through my marital travails is that when communication breaks down the relationship breaks down, without communication there is no relationship. So at the gay pride parade this little Pentecostal church from the bayou served coffee and donuts and talked with people. They did not preach, they didn’t quote scripture. They communicated. They created relationships. If someone asked a direct question they would answer, but they would speak the truth in love in a non judgmental way.

And that’s where “othering” fails. Jesus called us to reach the world with the Gospel. You cannot reach those that you other, that you reject, that you break off communication with. Without communication there can be no relationship.

Key point is communication and its root word.

Fellowship. Sharing life over bread.

 

[cowboyinexile]

I'll go with any religion that gets up back at the top of the Big 12.

 

[RxCowboy]

If anyone is interested in challenging what you think you know about The Holy Land. I would HIGHLY recommend checking out Simcha Jacobovici's series that he did called "The Naked Archeologist"

His name is Simcha Jacobovici and he is a controversial Jewish Emmy winning journalist and amateur archeologist

This TV show basically travels the Holy Lands looking to examine Biblical Stories for archeological evidence to prove them. Some of his theories are wild and out there, some are very believable and sometimes the Evidence they seek and find and the story seem to Prove or Disprove Biblical stories in a context that is pretty hard to argue sometimes.

He will interview Theology folks (they get upset with him alot because he ask hard questions they can't always answer, he interviews archeologist, scientist, collectors etc.

Some of his interviews are sketchy and some are down right thought provoking.

The Naked Archeologist Series streams on Prime and Tubi.

Here is a 1 Hour pod cast he did about the "Family Tomb of Jesus" He was funded by Hollywood Legend James Cameron for this. Basically Jewish burials were once done in ossuaries but only for a VERY short period right before the Jesus Death and through the 1st Century AD. There was as tomb that contains names that would indicate they were Joseph, Mary, A brother to Jesus and Mary Magdalene (suggesting she was Jesus Wife and buried there as well with the family) .......as well as a ossuary with the name Jesus son of Joseph carved on the side of it that has been proven by them to be of period and authentic

on Youtube

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The discovery of the Talpiot Tomb in 1980 by James Cameron and Simcha Jacobovici has been a subject of much debate and controversy. The tomb, located in the Talpiot neighborhood of Jerusalem, contained ten ossuaries, some of which were inscribed with names that appear to be those of Jesus' family. The ossuaries included names such as "Y'shua bar Yosef" (Aramaic for "Jesus son of Joseph") and "Yehuda bar Yeshua" (possibly Aramaic for "Judah son of Jesus"). The filmmakers argue that these names suggest the presence of Jesus' brother James and Mary Magdalene, Jesus' wife. However, this claim has been met with skepticism from scholars and critics, who point out that the tomb was a common burial site for the wealthy in the first century, and that the names found were not unique to Jesus' family. The discovery has sparked discussions about the historical context of Jesus' burial and the implications of such claims


If you are interested in streaming the Entire Documentary called "The Lost Tomb of Jesus" which is a documentary just about this Jesus Family Tomb

it can be found on the following

The Lost Tomb Of Jesus streaming: where to watch online?​

Currently you are able to watch "The Lost Tomb Of Jesus" streaming on Pluto TV for free with ads.
You can also stream the title for free on Hoopla.

Synopsis​

Academy Award winning director James Cameron and Emmy Award winning investigative journalist Simcha Jacobovici have joined forces and produced a documentary film claiming to have identified the tomb and physical remains of Jesus of Nazareth.

I love The Naked Archaeologist. Simcha is awesome.