KU at OSU

[MT Cowboy]

It’s about to be 20 years since we’ve even made the sweet 16. The Athletic Department is all in on football. Boynton’s contract has too rich of a buyout unless major donors chip in, but with the past 20 years as a reference will the AD even find a coach that’s better? It’s going to take a major commitment to turn it around, and we’re already heavily committed to football. This program is long gone without some major help. Brad Underwood leaving and the NCAA probation are likely nails in the coffin. Fan support will not recover with the thunder in OKC even if we can loop some good seasons together. I’ve haven’t even been watching our basketball games for about 3 years. Only really see the box scores. Every time I try to watch it’s crappy basketball and it feels like we only win when our opponents also play crappy basketball. Boynton absolutely has to go, but I have no confidence the athletic director can find anyone that’s either better or will last for the long term.

Your first sentence echoes my thought. Final 4? Final 4!? We're just trying to make it out of the first round! Haven't even sniffed the sweet sixteen in 20 years!

Looking it up, of the teams that will constitute the Big 12 starting next season, only 2 have fewer tournament wins since our last sweet sixteen appearance (2005) than what we do. Only 2. My fear is basketball has fallen into the opposite realm of what we talk about our football team being in. With football, kids that are now in high school have only known OSU to be a good to great program, not horrid like we were through the 90s. Basketball? Kids in high school now will only distinctly remember OSU for being bottom tier outside of maybe the years we had Marcus Smart and Cade Cunningham. I pray it's not too far gone to be able to overcome that and get back to even just relevance.

 

[MT Cowboy]

Sadly this is spot on…especially the new administration heavily committed to football! If only we kept Brad underwood

Exactly what my fears point to. Preface this by saying Brad Underwood was a snake and partially product of the current environment (no loyalty just a whore for the highest bidder), but I worry we'll only see more like what happened with him. We've been bottom tier for so long that we're not seen as a desirable destination anymore. So unless we write a huge check, which we seem unwilling to do for basketball, all we're going to see is good coaches using us as a 1-2 year stepping stone to better jobs.

 

[HacklemanPoke]

Sadly this is spot on…especially the new administration heavily committed to football! If only we kept Brad underwood

This to me is where it gets interesting. IMO college football is headed for a “Premiere League” situation w 24-32 schools. There is no way networks continue to fork over billions to conferences to get an Indiana vs Minnesota or Kentucky vs Arkansas. I do not think we will be a part of that.

Players will get revenue shares and more than likely unionize. I’m not sure how sustainable the Premiere League is bc NFL is the 800 lb gorilla and the fans of schools left out won’t watch w regularity.

So what’s left is for the next level 70ish schools to reform back into geographical conferences. There will still be a market but not as rich as we see now.

I think this would likely happen early 2030’s but could happen more quickly if the ACC gets blown up ahead of their GoR.

Where does basketball factor? Football revenue and media rights (driven by football) allow us to pay for basketball. Right now we’ve got a 5 maybe 8 year window to get basketball back on track before our athletic revenues take a hit. I think the Ath Dept knows this and will move with urgency to correct bc after that revenue window closes our ability to attract and retain will be so much more difficult and basketball success will be 25-30 yrs in the rear view mirror.

 

[Cowboy4life9688]

Exactly what my fears point to. Preface this by saying Brad Underwood was a snake and partially product of the current environment (no loyalty just a whore for the highest bidder), but I worry we'll only see more like what happened with him. We've been bottom tier for so long that we're not seen as a desirable destination anymore. So unless we write a huge check, which we seem unwilling to do for basketball, all we're going to see is good coaches using us as a 1-2 year stepping stone to better jobs.

I think if the job were to open, I think there would be some quality candidates that would apply and want to stay but we’ll see.

 

[Oklapokes]

Man. I remember when we were really close to getting Bill Self to leave Kansas. My how much this program has fallen. It makes it REALLY hard to care about it.

I don't think that was remotely close.

 

[Poke Skywalker]

I don't think that was remotely close.

Yeah, wasn’t that right after Self had won his first NC at KU? Then Holder flew up there, probably asked him to take a pay cut and “Ride for the Brand!”

 

[PorcupinePoke]

I don't think that was remotely close.

That is not what I heard from people on the OP board back when it was going on. Note by this I mean I was told it by them in person, not I read it on the board.

Anyway, I heard he was all set to and changed his mind to keep from uprooting his family. All his kids are out of school now. Maybe someone else here with more information can speak up.

 

[alex1fly]

Can y'all explain to me like I'm 8 - why is Boynton not having success on the court? There's so much to like about the guy. Emotions aside, and recognizing that athletic success rides on a heck of a lot more than just a head coach - what pieces are not falling into place?

 

[casew]

Can y'all explain to me like I'm 8 - why is Boynton not having success on the court? There's so much to like about the guy. Emotions aside, and recognizing that athletic success rides on a heck of a lot more than just a head coach - what pieces are not falling into place?

His teams always seem to have very exploitable weaknesses in areas of their game. I struggle to gauge just how much the NIL, transfer portal & NCAA penalties have hurt him. He seems very good at building relationships, but those relationships haven't exactly created any loyalty. Losing Cisse protecting the rim was likely a big loss on defense. Some of those close non-conference games likely turn into wins if he was still here & playing.

I don't really understand the relationships with the assistant coaches. Do they have an input, but as a coaching staff they aren't capable of implementing it? The assistants seem to be pretty loyal, so I would think he would listen and respect their abilities. Are the players he recruits just not disciplined enough to take instruction & play in a system? Is it that he's too nice & just can't instill discipline into a game setting?

Obviously the constant turnover is a huge issue, but the quality of play and coaching hasn't shown any sign of consistently improving.

 

[MustangPokeFan]

I agree with your premise, but I think I (and most of our fanbase) would have been totally underwhelmed if we had cut Boynton loose a couple of years ago and turned around and hired Tang, another assistant without D1 HC experience. We would love to have him now, but I don't think it would have gone over well before we saw what he did at ksu his first season.

You’re completely missing the point. He really hasn’t done that much at KSU…..yet, but I predict he will. The reason KSU hired him is they knew what everyone paying attention knew which was Tang was largely responsible for Baylor being in several Final Fours and winning an NCAA title. He recruited those players and was the primary recruiter on the team. Look at Baylor with him gone, they have taken a step back. They barely beat us. As you can also see now, in addition to being a recruiting genius, he can also coach and motivate players. He is also a master at recruiting the portal. If KSU can do its homework and hit a home run, why can’t we?

 

[MustangPokeFan]

Man. I remember when we were really close to getting Bill Self to leave Kansas. My how much this program has fallen. It makes it REALLY hard to care about it.

In your wild dreams……lol

 

[Duke Silver]

The NCAA didn’t hurt him. He has recruited the 2nd best or 3rd best roster in the conference.

 

[Duke Silver]

In your wild dreams……lol

You are wrong.

 

[MustangPokeFan]

You are wrong.

There was never a chance in hell that Bill Self was coming here nor would he ever. He’s been at KU, an elite Blue Blood for 20 years. You honestly think he ever considered coming to a place he spent 4 years as a player getting a degree? He’s not a “fan” like us, this is his profession. You don’t leave as the CEO of a major corporation to role up your sleeves at a start up. That would be the equivalent of Nick Saban leaving Bama to come coach the Cowboys. It would never happen in a million years. Heck, you do realize if Eddie had not been forced to resign in shame at Kentucky, we’d have never had any shot of landing him either. It was literally the only scenario where that would have been possible.

 

[Duke Silver]

There was never a chance in hell that Bill Self was coming here nor would he ever. He’s been at KU, an elite Blue Blood for 20 years. You honestly think he ever considered coming to a place he spent 4 years as a player getting a degree? He’s not a “fan” like us, this is his profession. You don’t leave as the CEO of a major corporation to role up your sleeves at a start up. That would be the equivalent of Nick Saban leaving Bama to come coach the Cowboys. It would never happen in a million years. Heck, you do realize if Eddie had not been forced to resign in shame at Kentucky, we’d have never had any shot of landing him either. It was literally the only scenario where that would have been possible.

You are wrong

 

[MustangPokeFan]

You are wrong

Prove it….

 

[Icculus]

Don't anybody take the bait

 

[jobob85]

There was never a chance in hell that Bill Self was coming here nor would he ever. He’s been at KU, an elite Blue Blood for 20 years. You honestly think he ever considered coming to a place he spent 4 years as a player getting a degree? He’s not a “fan” like us, this is his profession. You don’t leave as the CEO of a major corporation to role up your sleeves at a start up. That would be the equivalent of Nick Saban leaving Bama to come coach the Cowboys. It would never happen in a million years. Heck, you do realize if Eddie had not been forced to resign in shame at Kentucky, we’d have never had any shot of landing him either. It was literally the only scenario where that would have been possible.

Prove it….

 

[H2Orange]

$9 million buyout. Until that is in place, Boynton isn’t going anywhere.

 

[Stargazer]

$9 million buyout. Until that is in place, Boynton isn’t going anywhere.

Even tho I hope he's gone immediately following the conclusion of this season, I think he'd be fired at the beginning of next season, so to keep recruiting class intact. And that is a massive buyout. Holder convinced Boone to completely change OSU football. He was successful in doing so

Regarding the basketball program, Holder completely failed. He gave Ford an insane contract, and did so with Boynton. It's frustrating, to say the least