ICE

[osuwhit]

Absolutely that’s what protestors are yelling at ICE about.

And you’re going to have to cite a source other than ACLU when you’re trying to convince a lawyer/prosecutor that claims about Obama’s alleged violations of due process and Trump’s violations of due process/Constitution which I have seen repeatedly and almost daily are even remotely similar.

Finally, that ACLU press release is a comment on a change in the law allowing for immediate deportation without an individualized hearing if they’re picked up within 100 miles of the border. Due process under the law is what I’m talking about and that’s the very definition of due process constitutionally.

So, the due process that Obama violated is different than the due process that Trump is violating?

 

[osuwhit]

So, the due process that Obama violated is different than the due process that Trump is violating?

Zzzzing everything is lame, @CowboyJD. I asked a legit question. Simple yes/no should suffice. If you want to go into details, that's appreciated too.

 

[GratefulPoke]

Read it still didn't answer the question.

This is what they used as definitions:

This brief defines left-wing terrorism as that which is motivated by an opposition to capitalism, imperialism, or colonialism; black nationalism; support for LGBTQ+ rights; support for environmental causes or animal rights; adherence to pro-communist, pro-socialist beliefs or “anti-fascist” rhetoric; opposition to government authority under the belief it is a tool of oppression responsible for social injustices; support for decentralized political and social systems, such as anarchism; or partisan extremism, where violence is justified against political opponents and parties perceived as advancing right-wing agendas.

Right-wing terrorism as used in this analysis includes incidents motivated by ideas of racial or ethnic supremacy; opposition to government authority, believing it is tyrannical and illegitimate; misogyny, including incels; hatred based on sexuality or gender identity; belief in the QAnon conspiracy theory; opposition to abortion; or partisan extremism, where violence is justified against political opponents and parties perceived as advancing left-wing agendas.

So to those definitions, you say:

Serious question how do I tell which of these lunatics are far left or far right. Many of them are socialist groups yet labeled far right. Is it political belief or the nature of the crime that determines far left or far right? Trying to politically label people that belong in a long closed psych ward makes my head hurt. Their political beliefs make 0 sense and cross lines going in every direction.

What groups do you think are labeled far right but are actually socialist? How big are they and how active are they? EDIT: also, what acts of violence have they perpetrated?

Otherwise, I am thinking this meme might be appropriate:

 

[CowboyJD]

So, the due process that Obama violated is different than the due process that Trump is violating?

Provide some proof that Obama violated due process under the law, and we’ll talk.

That press release from the ACLU doesn’t do that, and doesn’t even really argue that he did. It argues that a law change allowing immediate deportation without an individualized hearing for aliens detained 100 miles within the border was improper.

 

[Vakarian74]

Tough. If they acted like civil servants and treated people appropriately, they would not be all over video looking like thugs and there would be no reason to dox them. Border patrol has been arresting people for deportation for decades with no worries. This is not the correct response to the problem.

Obama ICE did not do this. Do you really think that if citizens were being ripped out of job sites and ICE agent were walking up and breaking car windows that nobody in 2016 would have bothered to film it? Do you really think if it was filmed that it would not be all over social media? IMO, no that is not a realistic claim.

Could it be possible that Obama ICE wasn't under the same type of scrutiny because they didn't continually violate due process and the constitutional rights while deporting a whole bunch of folks.

Nah-uh both sides bad. No nuance.

 

[GratefulPoke]

So, the due process that Obama violated is different than the due process that Trump is violating?

Yes, they are different. Obama didn't follow due process abroad and was the judge jury and executioner of american citizens there. Trump has continued those abuses, but has also become the judge jury and executioner domestically.

So where these abuses are occurring is different, but the whole thing is predicable. Its the imperial boomerang in action.

 

[CowboyJD]

Zzzzing everything is lame, @CowboyJD. I asked a legit question. Simple yes/no should suffice. If you want to go into details, that's appreciated too.

I’ll zzzz what I want, when I want.

Thanks for the advice though.

And your question wasn’t legit….it was loaded with what you think is a “gotcha”…but I answered it anyway.

 

[osuwhit]

Provide some proof that Obama violated due process under the law, and we’ll talk.

That press release from the ACLU doesn’t do that, and doesn’t even really argue that he did. It argues that a law change allowing immediate deportation without an individualized hearing for aliens detained 100 miles within the border was improper.

Hell yeah. That fell into my lap quickly.

Sauce:

Yes, they are different. Obama didn't follow due process abroad and was the judge jury and executioner abroad. Trump is not only that, but also the judge jury and executioner domestically.

So where these abuses are occurring is different, but the whole thing is predicable. Its the imperial boomerang in action.

 

[osuwhit]

I’ll zzzz what I want, when I want.

Thanks for the advice though.

And your question wasn’t legit….it was loaded with what you think is a “gotcha”…but I answered it anyway.

I'm sorry you feel that way. You shouldn't because it was absolutely legit and posed to a SME, but no worries. Grateful Poke was able to answer me.

 

[GratefulPoke]

Provide some proof that Obama violated due process under the law, and we’ll talk.

That press release from the ACLU doesn’t do that, and doesn’t even really argue that he did. It argues that a law change allowing immediate deportation without an individualized hearing for aliens detained 100 miles within the border was improper.

Anwar al-Awlaki - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm pretty sure that violated due process.

But I otherwise agree with you: they are not the same as what Trump is doing.

 

[Rob B.]

So, the due process that Obama violated is different than the due process that Trump is violating?

*[D]ifferent

 

[Rob B.]

lol.

Not once has he called prosecution and conviction by a jury “persecution”.

Now who is gaslighting?

 

[Polds4OSU]

 

[CowboyJD]

Anwar al-Awlaki - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm pretty sure that violated due process.

But I otherwise agree with you: they are not the same as what Trump is doing.

I would agree that incident violated that al-Awlaki’s due process.

That wasn’t even what the ACLU article he cited was alleging though.

 

[CowboyJD]

Now who is gaslighting?

 

[GratefulPoke]

View attachment 17411

Just wait: in less than 5 years there will be a realistic deep fake photo of some "public enemy" doing heinous sh!t that is not real.

Its going to happen and it is going to happen soon.

 

[CptnQuirk]

 

[DeerePoke]

This is what they used as definitions:

So to those definitions, you say:

What groups do you think are labeled far right but are actually socialist? How big are they and how active are they? EDIT: also, what acts of violence have they perpetrated?

Otherwise, I am thinking this meme might be appropriate:

Yes, if you go down to the next paragraph in the article it says this.

Note that terms such as “left-wing terrorism” and “right-wing terrorism” as used in this brief do not correspond to mainstream political parties in the United States, such as the Democratic and Republican parties, nor do they correspond to the overwhelming majority of political liberals and conservatives in the United States.

In many cases, clear ideological categorization of perpetrators is difficult. Former FBI Director Christopher Wray once referred to a “salad bar of ideologies,” where perpetrators of violence choose among an array of causes, many of which do not align with a traditional right-left dichotomy or other easy ideological classification.

My question is why do we label these groups left and right at all? Politically they are neither.

BTW both the Clan and NEO NAZI's are socialist just to pull two off the top of my head. Although they are racist first and foremost and will cross political lines if they feel it agrees with their racist agenda.

 

[Pokey]

Just wait: in less than 5 years there will be a realistic deep fake photo of some "public enemy" doing heinous sh!t that is not real.

Its going to happen and it is going to happen soon.

This is just the administration to advance these false created images to prosper. You see things live, then later they’ll show you fabricated images and talk about your lying eyes. Pure evil Satan is the father of all lies. Wonder where this President and limp fawning Rebumplicans appear on that list.

 

[cowboyinexile]

BTW both the Clan and NEO NAZI's are socialist just to pull two off the top of my head. Although they are racist first and foremost and will cross political lines if they feel it agrees with their racist agenda.

What so nazis have to do with a more equitable distribution of wealth? If you are confusing more government control with rich people being less rich so poor people are less poor I think you are thinking of authoritarian ideology. And I don't know what the clan stands for aside from racial purity but would assume traditionally they want less government control not more.