Sure. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. My point still stands.
Gundy on Robert Allen Show
- Thread starter Chairman of the Board
- Start date
OrangeFanatic2
Deputy
My only real issue or concern with Gundy is the decision he made to change the offensive identity away from what it was under Holgerson/Monken. I know Yurcich had great numbers and IMO is a good OC but I never understood getting away from what was so successful. I'm a Gundy supporter and this is no knock on him but has always been odd to me that he made this decision years ago.
Soothsayer
New member
It's just the truth that Gundy's recruiting classes are typically middling at best. That doesn't mean the program doesn't produce good players. Gundy has been the coach for 18 years--of course, everything, recruiting or otherwise, is because of him. I am not a firm believer in recruiting stars when it comes to evaluating individual talent, but there is no denying that the more stars on a roster, the more likely a program will be successful (UT and A&M, notwithstanding). There is no reason for OSU to be 9th in the (old) Big 12 recruiting or 54th in the nation.
Except now you cannot just look at a class from the high school/JUCO ranks. You have to look at the overall class that includes portal transfers. If you do that we move up some to 7th in the conference and 42 nationally (yes I know we still need to be better but those rankings are very suspect),
Soothsayer
New member
Wilson is a good player, I'll give you that.
Stribling. He has good size and numbers. A good pick up.
Bruce. Being the leading slot on Iowa doesn't tell you much. Iowa had the next to last worst offense in D1.
Cooper. Does the Sun Belt equate to the Big 12? Really?
Johnson. 50 catches in 4 years on the 3rd worst offense in D1.
Collins. Agree that he has potential.
I notice you left off the D3 and D2 transfers.
What you basically have is 3-4 proven players and a few others who had success as freshmen a few years ago and several who are unproven against real competition. Not a bad transfer class--a very good one, in fact. I still don't think it matches what was lost. Nevertheless, my questions were what you call a rhetorical device, meant to provoke thought and discussion--not meant to be taken literally.
I'm still astonished that Gundy can give an interview with the most friendly of all "media" where he brushes off criticism as being "blown out of proportion" and some of y'all just eat it up. It wasn't all bad apples that left. There were no coaching changes (offense) and you are just assuming there will be offensive scheme changes. Btw, if you change from zone to gap blocking, you are changing the plays you can call to a certain extent (options, reads, etc.), but to a larger extent, it's not going to change your ability to execute a run or pass play (even if slightly different plays). The line still has to block no matter what's called. I also think it's fair to criticize the hiring of a D2 coordinator who had mediocre numbers. You won't see any other team in the Big 12 doing so.
I was hoping this new board would have a lot of discussion, but it seems like it just going to be Gundy apologists with their orange colored glasses on. I'll just leave it at this: within the next 4 years, the Gundy era will come to an end and it will do so spectacularly. And I don't mean with a national championship.
You keep calling out the mediocre numbers on Nardo, but you are only looking at his last year, which was his first year at that school. Instead look at his previous stops and how much he improved the defense in just the one year at Gannon. When he was at Emporia St his defenses AVERAGED 25+ takeaways a year and his defenses were normally ranked among the best. By just saying he had a middling defense last year then you might as well say the same about Knowles when he came here. Of course we all know that was not the end of the story.
Note this is the so called discussion you are asking for, not just statements you hope people will just agree with.
broncopoke
New member
I think most everyone agrees on Dickey, who you note was evidently retained, much to everyone's confusion. How can anyone say "he's been put on notice?" How do we know that? How is any of this credible? Gundy doesn't even acknowledge the failure of last season. Gundy was on RA's show bragging about how different the vibe in his office is compared to the public perception around his program in freefall.
Until Gundy himself is put on notice, he's going to actively shield all of his staff from any of that.
broncopoke
New member
I will say this: As one of Gundy's biggest detractors, I'm fine with the Nardo hire. I was fine with Yurcich; it turns out most of the issues in that era were from Gundy micromanaging anyway. As it relates to Nardo, I think he found an up-and-comer who spent a lot of time in Kansas and Missouri, who may be a great cultural fit. It also sounds like Gundy has learned a lot about defensive schemes, so credit where credit is due. Now for some fair criticisms...
My concerns from the overall episode are: 1, losing an elite DC who clearly just didn't want to work with Gundy, and probably found Gundy to be more of the same as Bryan Harsin; 2, the wrong side of the ball had staffing turnover; and 3, I believe he lied about multiple SEC and ACC DC's being interested in a lateral move to a sinking ship, and I view honesty as a cardinal value. On that latter point, there's coach speak which is fine, and then there's outright lying through your teeth.
Based on this interview, I'm concerned that Gundy is lying to the fans (most of whom aren't buying it), the administration (who may find it convenient to give him the benefit of the doubt), and critically to himself, which calls his leadership into question. He generally refuses to acknowledge failure, which is plainly obvious in this case. Maybe I'm wrong about some of these, soon enough the proof will be evident. The win-loss record and attendance figures next season will prove all of this out, for better or worse.
I will always hope for the best, but I just don't see an off-ramp from the free fall we find ourselves in. I think we're in for a tumultuous year of more portal defections, anyone decent on staff leaving, losing millions in revenue, becoming a laughing stock of the new Big 12, more Gundy presser meltdowns, and banning anyone who dares question The Man. That buyout is a fixed cost, and may become a better deal as time passes.
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You just posted in another thread that you were leaving the board and then came right over to this thread and posted this.
broncopoke
New member
Maybe I'll stick around just to annoy you and the other browncoats
Glad to here it!
With a name like Broncopoke you're either a Denver fan or a bronc rider, so you're used to getting kicked in the nuts. I'd be grumpy too!
And when he did it, he said it was to protect the defense from being on the field 85+ plays a game. Which also made sense but for me, give me a team that can and will score 40+ every single game like clockwork and I don’t care if the defense plays a bunch.
If Dickey can coach zone better than gap then we will be ok. We need to face the fact that most of the transfers moved because there is going to be lots of competition at their position or they were butt hurt over SS being expected to act like a leader instead of an entitled child.
Some of the defensive transfers were because of the philosophy change from Knowlesism.
Gundy does need to realize that he has a very restless fanbase that expects results. Football at TOSU will continue after he's retired and, gasp, may continue to improve. Weiberg has proven to be an able leader, Shrum is not someone that will be ran over. Let the three do their jobs and the chips fall where they will.
Some of the defensive transfers were because of the philosophy change from Knowlesism.
Gundy does need to realize that he has a very restless fanbase that expects results. Football at TOSU will continue after he's retired and, gasp, may continue to improve. Weiberg has proven to be an able leader, Shrum is not someone that will be ran over. Let the three do their jobs and the chips fall where they will.
zone2poke
Ranger
Jim Knowles salary at OSU: $800,000 a year.
Jim Knowles salary at O$U: 1.9 million a year.
"The answer to all your questions is money." -- Don Ohlmeyer
OrangeFanatic2
Deputy
Did you mean if he can teach gap better than zone?
Mason had to work after the debacle at Auburn. He probably does need to recharge after three jobs in three years.
OrangeFanatic2
Deputy
Right. The thing is that your offensive tempo is typically the factor in how many snaps your D will be on the field. Which I get, I’m good with slowing down a bit to help the D out but that didn’t necessarily mean we had to change our entire offensive scheme. We could have continued with the same scheme but cut down on our tempo.And when he did it, he said it was to protect the defense from being on the field 85+ plays a game. Which also made sense but for me, give me a team that can and will score 40+ every single game like clockwork and I don’t care if the defense plays a bunch.
Except qb couldn’t do it.
That keeps getting missed somehow.
Good lord he threw that many interceptions running a vanilla offense. The bitchers need to grow a brain
