2024 Presidential Election

[Pokey]

All I can say is, we'll see. I've been wrong before, and I'll certainly be wrong again. i was most definitely wrong in my analysis of what was going to happen in the election on Tuesday. What I'm right about is that the lawfare failed.

Sounds like you honestly believe that any other citizen would have been able to choose partisan judges, and delay proceedings so long that the public can’t see the evidence. I guess you believe the courts and the Supreme Court has been totally above board and haven’t treated him any different than the common man. They effectively made him a king far above the law. This stunt the partisan judges made gives him more power to enjoy doing whatever he wants as long as THEY say it’s a duty of his job. crazy IMO
Your whataboutism saying Biden’s few documents, not worthy of charges, is somehow equivalent to the volume and depth of the secrets Trump stole and repeatedly hid. Wonder what leadership role Jenny Thomas and Alito’s wife will fill in this glorious administration?

 

[cowboyinexile]

The fact that the majority voted for a felon convinces me of nothing. The same majority also think that the covid vaccine killed more than it helped (not even close to true) and that the 2020 election was stolen (also not true).

I don't know if a majority of Americans believe these things or if they just didn't care if they were true or not.

We seem as a society to care more about right now than anything else. And right now, people have the perception that their grocery bill is too high and that they can't getting a new vehicle is expensive because they are paying 7% interest on it. It doesn't matter if those things are true or if they are better or worse globally-it's how they feel right now. And Trump's handlers did a better job of making enough of them believe it is the current administrations fault.

 

[Donnyboy]

The point is if a "democrat" prosecutor can make a fake case against a candidate for president and get it through a grand jury and get 34 convictions and several other cases would have been possibly getting the same outcome if he wasn't re-elected then we have a system problem not a "democrats took it too far" problem. If the motives are transparent to the average citizen, then the system should have tossed it. But that isn't what happened. We either have citizens believing a disinformation campaign or a system that is failing us.

The fact that the majority voted for a felon convinces me of nothing. The same majority also think that the covid vaccine killed more than it helped (not even close to true) and that the 2020 election was stolen (also not true).

The fraud case was targeted and you are probably guilty of what they fined him 500M for on a smaller scale. Anyone that has taken an asset based loan and listed the collateral as higher than taxable value has done that. It took minutes for someone to post Jon Stewart’s tax data from New York after he went off on the verdict….comes to find out he is doing the same thing according to tax roll data. Lock him up right? Candidates for prosecutorial positions ran on the fact they would go after Trump, not clean things up, go after Trump before a single doc was filed. It was targeted. RFK was targeted. Keep your head in the sand if you want most folks didn’t. I know Harris voters that 100% agree they were after opponents and don’t care because to them the ends justify the means. It’s more than just his voters that feel the same. They took it too far. Then they come out and say he will target political rivals….and he will….and that’s wrong….but your message has no power when you are in the news all the time for the same thing.

As Huck said they had him on real things that should disqualify one for being president and dropped the ball horribly in GA and lost in court on Jan 6th which is the one he should be in jail for. They hurt themselves with the threat to democracy line everyday…..do I feel Trump is a threat to democracy yes I do. Is there evidence yes there is. Is the current leadership of the DNC that has installed two of their last three candidates, removed a sitting President from a ticket, and sued in a dozen states to keep people off the ballot as a threat to democracy yes they are… is there evidence yes there is. They overplayed the legal hand and it backfired. They lost the folks in the middle….not fringe right wing extremist. They lost your neighbor, your kids teacher, they lost union members, they lost minorities….there is no defense of the strategy. We can beat up details of cases for days and we are going end up a lot closer than you think we are. The difference is a lot of folks especially ones directly impacted by the economy and border saw this for what it is.

I have a hard time believing more than 50% of Americans believe the vaccine killed more people than it helped since 80% are vaccinated. I think a majority know it doesn’t do what they said it would but isn’t killing millions. Again 81% of people didn’t get a shot they thought would kill them. That’s more of the talk that lost the election. The majority of Americans got tired of the condescending stuff like that and voted for someone else.

Dem supporters if you ever want to win again stop with the everyone is dumb and constant gaslighting and run on something tangible. You have undeniable evidence it’s not working.

 

[cowboyinexile]

Sounds like you honestly believe that any other citizen would have been able to choose partisan judges, and delay proceedings so long that the public can’t see the evidence. I guess you believe the courts and the Supreme Court has been totally above board and haven’t treated him any different than the common man. They effectively made him a king far above the law. This stunt the partisan judges made gives him more power to enjoy doing whatever he wants as long as THEY say it’s a duty of his job. crazy IMO
Your whataboutism saying Biden’s few documents, not worthy of charges, is somehow equivalent to the volume and depth of the secrets Trump stole and repeatedly hid. Wonder what leadership role Jenny Thomas and Alito’s wife will fill in this glorious administration?

I don't think that's what he is saying at all.

 

[JTOSU]

They lost the folks in the middle….not fringe right wing extremist. They lost your neighbor, your kids teacher, they lost union members, they lost minorities….there is no defense of the strategy.

The majority of Americans got tired of the condescending stuff like that and voted for someone else.

Dem supporters if you ever want to win again stop with the everyone is dumb and constant gaslighting and run on something tangible.

100% agree with above

 

[JTOSU]

To be honest, we sort of live in a post-truth world. The "truth" that people see is the "truth" they want to see.

I also 100% agree with this

 

[Pokey]

I don't think that's what he is saying at all.

I don’t call being tried and convicted by his peers as wrongful law fare. Whatever that’s supposed to imply.

 

[TheMonkey]

And vice versa. No?

Yep. I never said otherwise.

 

[steross]

The fraud case was targeted and you are probably guilty of what they fined him 500M for on a smaller scale. Anyone that has taken an asset based loan and listed the collateral as higher than taxable value has done that. It took minutes for someone to post Jon Stewart’s tax data from New York after he went off on the verdict….comes to find out he is doing the same thing according to tax roll data. Lock him up right? Candidates for prosecutorial positions ran on the fact they would go after Trump, not clean things up, go after Trump before a single doc was filed. It was targeted. RFK was targeted. Keep your head in the sand if you want most folks didn’t. I know Harris voters that 100% agree they were after opponents and don’t care because to them the ends justify the means. It’s more than just his voters that feel the same. They took it too far. Then they come out and say he will target political rivals….and he will….and that’s wrong….but your message has no power when you are in the news all the time for the same thing.

As Huck said they had him on real things that should disqualify one for being president and dropped the ball horribly in GA and lost in court on Jan 6th which is the one he should be in jail for. They hurt themselves with the threat to democracy line everyday…..do I feel Trump is a threat to democracy yes I do. Is there evidence yes there is. Is the current leadership of the DNC that has installed two of their last three candidates, removed a sitting President from a ticket, and sued in a dozen states to keep people off the ballot as a threat to democracy yes they are… is there evidence yes there is. They overplayed the legal hand and it backfired. They lost the folks in the middle….not fringe right wing extremist. They lost your neighbor, your kids teacher, they lost union members, they lost minorities….there is no defense of the strategy. We can beat up details of cases for days and we are going end up a lot closer than you think we are. The difference is a lot of folks especially ones directly impacted by the economy and border saw this for what it is.

I have a hard time believing more than 50% of Americans believe the vaccine killed more people than it helped since 80% are vaccinated. I think a majority know it doesn’t do what they said it would but isn’t killing millions. Again 81% of people didn’t get a shot they thought would kill them. That’s more of the talk that lost the election. The majority of Americans got tired of the condescending stuff like that and voted for someone else.

Dem supporters if you ever want to win again stop with the everyone is dumb and constant gaslighting and run on something tangible. You have undeniable evidence it’s not working.

Personal attack me all you want about my head in the sand when I have given no personal opinion at all. I started this by saying I don't know enough to make a strong opinion. But, I can certainly make an opinion about the stories being told. Frankly, they seem very far-fetched.

This is similar to the "stolen election" thing. If we really had a stolen presidential election, that is revolution level stuff. The response is not to whine about it and run again 4 years later and see if you can "stop the steal." That is a joke.

And, if we really has such prosecutorial malfeasance that they ran saying they would take out a presidential candidate for false means the answer is not to vote for him to show them up.

We are supposed to be a first world country. If these acts are reality and the workarounds are what you are saying we are not even functioning at banana republic level.

And no I've never listed collateral high on a loan. But, I work for the government and I have a government pen or two at my house which is not legal. I don't think they will ever go after me for that theft of property. But, a basement hallway that I use to get to the bike rack at work has pallets full of government computers, medical equipment etc. I've often thought how easy it would be to walk off with one of them. (though I would never do it.). Now theft at that level, while technically the same, would cause them to go after me.

 

[Donnyboy]

@steross sorry for the head on the sand comment. I meant it as the Dems the way it is written it 100% reads personal. I’ll do better.

We’re 36 trillion in debt and our president just got removed because he is too senile to engage in a debate. That’s pretty banana republic. Things are bad. The economy sucks and two wars with multiple nuclear powers are on going. The Dems ran on primarily on Donald Trump bad…..then they did a horrible job of establishing that and stuff like 34 felonies for porn star checks hurt them. Small business owners perked up when he got hit with a 500 million dollar fine for loan that was paid off and the financial institution testified on his behalf when the loan was years old and asset was in another state. If they can do it him….. Abortion was overplayed. Threat to democracy was overplayed as they are one as well…..they don’t care who you voted for or want to vote for and that can’t be argued after Clinton and Harris were chosen and RFK was argued both ways. The economic policy was tax the rich…..that has nothing to do with costs at homes that used to have expendable income. Calling everyone dumb, racist, misogynistic it backfired…..you can’t say someone is divisive then list a string of character flaws that you feel half of American has if they don’t agree you. It was a truly horribly campaign.

None of what I have said is to defend Donald Trump. Any of you who have done project management know lessons learned is one of the most important parts….now is that time and when they are starring them in the face the same delusion is still carrying the day.

 

[steross]

@steross sorry for the head on the sand comment. I meant it as the Dems the way it is written it 100% reads personal. I’ll do better.

We’re 36 trillion in debt and our president just got removed because he is too senile to engage in a debate. That’s pretty banana republic. Things are bad. The economy sucks and two wars with multiple nuclear powers are on going. The Dems ran on primarily on Donald Trump bad…..then they did a horrible job of establishing that and stuff like 34 felonies for porn star checks hurt them. Small business owners perked up when he got hit with a 500 million dollar fine for loan that was paid off and the financial institution testified on his behalf when the loan was years old and asset was in another state. If they can do it him….. Abortion was overplayed. Threat to democracy was overplayed as they are one as well…..they don’t care who you voted for or want to vote for and that can’t be argued after Clinton and Harris were chosen and RFK was argued both ways. The economic policy was tax the rich…..that has nothing to do with costs at homes that used to have expendable income. Calling everyone dumb, racist, misogynistic it backfired…..you can’t say someone is divisive then list a string of character flaws that you feel half of American has if they don’t agree you. It was a truly horribly campaign.

None of what I have said is to defend Donald Trump. Any of you who have done project management know lessons learned is one of the most important parts….now is that time and when they are starring them in the face the same delusion is still carrying the day.

Thanks for the apology.

Man, I 100% agree with you that the dems at times seem to be thinking "Trump is so bad we can pump out our worst side and it won't even matter."

I think Trump is a horrible person. Mainly the stories of him bullying small time contractors like architects, builders etc with legal wrangling to get out of paying his bills. As I said, I don't know enough to know if the prosecutions were after the right stuff, but I feel pretty confident there is stuff.

But, he is the president now so I have to hope that maybe after taking care of himself first he will put the good of the people second, not third like most politicians. Because we really need to get the huge corporate influence out of government. I've heard discussion that he is on board with that. I guess we will see.

 

[RxCowboy]

I don't think that's what he is saying at all.

Nope, wasn't saying any of that.

 

[RxCowboy]

As Huck said they had him on real things that should disqualify one for being president and dropped the ball horribly in GA and lost in court on Jan 6th which is the one he should be in jail for. They hurt themselves with the threat to democracy line everyday…..do I feel Trump is a threat to democracy yes I do. Is there evidence yes there is. Is the current leadership of the DNC that has installed two of their last three candidates, removed a sitting President from a ticket, and sued in a dozen states to keep people off the ballot as a threat to democracy yes they are… is there evidence yes there is. They overplayed the legal hand and it backfired. They lost the folks in the middle….not fringe right wing extremist. They lost your neighbor, your kids teacher, they lost union members, they lost minorities….there is no defense of the strategy. We can beat up details of cases for days and we are going end up a lot closer than you think we are. The difference is a lot of folks especially ones directly impacted by the economy and border saw this for what it is.

The Georgia case is the one that really rubs me raw, because I think it's real and it's really a big deal. I think "find 11,780 votes" is pretty clear. But as I said, Fani Willis screwed the pooch.

Really, no matter how you feel about him, you shouldn't campaign on "I'm going to get that guy". It gives away the motives. The Soviets would have been proud, show me the man and I'll show you the charges.

As for threat to democracy, there are people on twitterx and reddit now claiming the election was stolen, which four years ago was a threat to democracy to say, and coming up with all kinds of ways that Kamala can still end up in the White House through chicanery, including refusing to certify the election, which is a "threat to democracy". And they're saying that she should do it because Trump is a "threat to democracy". It's high comedy.

There are also a bunch of liberal women on social media who all the sudden have discovered chastity and the second amendment. They have sworn off sex for the next four years and they are going to buy guns to shoot white men.

 

[RxCowboy]

None of what I have said is to defend Donald Trump. Any of you who have done project management know lessons learned is one of the most important parts….now is that time and when they are starring them in the face the same delusion is still carrying the day.

I've come to the conclusion that delusion is now one of the stages of grief.

 

[RxCowboy]

Now that he has been elected, "we'll see" isn't going to be the same as it would have been.

I think calling this "lawfare" is a load of crap. This is how our system works. He was indicted by a grand jury. He had is day in court. He was convicted. Unless you are claiming that the entire basis of how we chose to prosecute criminals is a scam, calling it lawfare is wrong. That was a grand jury of citizens who felt there was enough wrong to go to trial. Elected officials should be accountable to the same standards as the rest of us, if not more.

We have a billionaire that is so sleazy that instead of making his small hush money payment out of personal funds that he easily could have afforded, he created this false business expense to get it covered. That is a stupid, incompetent move, even if minor in the scheme of things. I could easily purchase medical equipment that I use at the VA under my S corp but the savings isn't worth the hassle if caught. He is used to skirting the law and ripping people off. He didn't think becoming president would require changing his ways. Basically, he FAFO.

When you have District Attorneys whose campaigns were "I'm going to get Trump" then it's openly political, lawfare.

The false business filing is a misdemeanor and past the statute of limitations. Lawfare.

Is he a sleezy businessman? Of course he is. Swing a dead cat in New York City and you'll hit a sleezy businessman. Is he the king of sleezy businessmen? Maybe so, there have certainly been and are plenty of sleezy businessmen. Should being sleezy have disqualified him from being president. Abso-freaking-lutely. But a majority of our fellow voters disagreed with us. I am still a disaffected Republican without a party. I would still like MAGA purged from the Republican Party, but that isn't happening any time soon.

 

[cowboyinexile]

The Georgia case is the one that really rubs me raw, because I think it's real and it's really a big deal. I think "find 11,780 votes" is pretty clear. But as I said, Fani Willis screwed the pooch.

Really, no matter how you feel about him, you shouldn't campaign on "I'm going to get that guy". It gives away the motives. The Soviets would have been proud, show me the man and I'll show you the charges.

As for threat to democracy, there are people on twitterx and reddit now claiming the election was stolen, which four years ago was a threat to democracy to say, and coming up with all kinds of ways that Kamala can still end up in the White House through chicanery, including refusing to certify the election, which is a "threat to democracy". And they're saying that she should do it because Trump is a "threat to democracy". It's high comedy.

There are also a bunch of liberal women on social media who all the sudden have discovered chastity and the second amendment. They have sworn off sex for the next four years and they are going to buy guns to shoot white men.

People are going to say stupid stuff. I'd bet a large portion of those saying it on Twitter either aren't human to begin with or are foreign actors seeing an opportunity to stir stuff up. I could say it's a conspiracy theory that Elon is pushing stuff like that with an algorithm but he's the world's richest troll so it probably wouldn't be much of a conspiracy. Reddit, by design, can be an echo chamber so I'd me more inclined to believe the chatter there are true believers, but I can also confidently say they are idiots.

The average American believes Trump won and even if they didn't, the VP is an adult and statesman so it doesn't matter. There isn't really a concern about certifying election results in a few weeks.

Now, when we talk threat to democracy, we would have a larger conversation if the election results were different. This wasn't nearly as close as was anticipated but we both know that if it went the other way in a similar fashion the losing candidate would be telling everyone that would listen he got screwed. I was reading an article about how voter confidence in the outcome of the election is much higher than it was a month ago. The reason why is because people who weren't sure their candidate would win did so. Nothing changed with how votes were counted in a month-just the results went a certain way. I saw people on Facebook surprised that the results they saw trending Tuesday night held into Wednesday morning.

Thats a problem. You can't say an election is fair only if it goes your way. And the president elect has trained his core voting block to believe that. Historically mid terms go against the incumbent. Is he going to rant and rave about how things are rigged if the senate changes hands in 2026? And say things need to change in 2028 to save the country? We don't know yet, but it's a possibility.

 

[Stillwater Townie]

I don't know if a majority of Americans believe these things or if they just didn't care if they were true or not.

We seem as a society to care more about right now than anything else. And right now, people have the perception that their grocery bill is too high and that they can't getting a new vehicle is expensive because they are paying 7% interest on it. It doesn't matter if those things are true or if they are better or worse globally-it's how they feel right now. And Trump's handlers did a better job of making enough of them believe it is the current administrations fault.

As an example of what inflation is like, salad at Walmart used to be 96 cents. It's now $2.18. It comes from Mexico, so Trump better not put tariffs on food from Mexico.

 

[RxCowboy]

People are going to say stupid stuff. I'd bet a large portion of those saying it on Twitter either aren't human to begin with or are foreign actors seeing an opportunity to stir stuff up. I could say it's a conspiracy theory that Elon is pushing stuff like that with an algorithm but he's the world's richest troll so it probably wouldn't be much of a conspiracy. Reddit, by design, can be an echo chamber so I'd me more inclined to believe the chatter there are true believers, but I can also confidently say they are idiots.

The average American believes Trump won and even if they didn't, the VP is an adult and statesman so it doesn't matter. There isn't really a concern about certifying election results in a few weeks.

Now, when we talk threat to democracy, we would have a larger conversation if the election results were different. This wasn't nearly as close as was anticipated but we both know that if it went the other way in a similar fashion the losing candidate would be telling everyone that would listen he got screwed. I was reading an article about how voter confidence in the outcome of the election is much higher than it was a month ago. The reason why is because people who weren't sure their candidate would win did so. Nothing changed with how votes were counted in a month-just the results went a certain way. I saw people on Facebook surprised that the results they saw trending Tuesday night held into Wednesday morning.

Thats a problem. You can't say an election is fair only if it goes your way. And the president elect has trained his core voting block to believe that. Historically mid terms go against the incumbent. Is he going to rant and rave about how things are rigged if the senate changes hands in 2026? And say things need to change in 2028 to save the country? We don't know yet, but it's a possibility.

No, there isn't an actual concern about the election being certified or the election being stolen, I just think it is ironic to hear these things come out of people's mouths after hearing them called a "threat to Democracy" for the past four years. And, yes, there is every reason to think that if Trump had lost that the morning after would have been... bad. Much worse than histrionic women swearing off schmex for four years* (they are actually using that term) and getting blue heart tattoos and shaving their heads. Like remember when Michigan survivalists couldn't take two weeks of isolation before they stormed the capitol building kind of bad. And yes, Trump primed them for it. Just like he did on Jan 6. Which, again, was the last straw for me.

*Do you really think they are going to last four years?

 

[PF5]

Dem supporters if you ever want to win again stop with the everyone is dumb and constant gaslighting and run on something tangible. You have undeniable evidence it’s not working.

worked for trump

 

[RxCowboy]

The point is if a "democrat" prosecutor can make a fake case against a candidate for president and get it through a grand jury and get 34 convictions and several other cases would have been possibly getting the same outcome if he wasn't re-elected then we have a system problem not a "democrats took it too far" problem. If the motives are transparent to the average citizen, then the system should have tossed it. But that isn't what happened. We either have citizens believing a disinformation campaign or a system that is failing us.

The fact that the majority voted for a felon convinces me of nothing. The same majority also think that the covid vaccine killed more than it helped (not even close to true) and that the 2020 election was stolen (also not true).

Old saying, "you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich". Let's wait and see what happens with the appeals.