Frozen embryos are now considered Children in Alabama per State Supreme Court
- Thread starter Polds4OSU
- Start date
I honestly can't fathom what the problem with IVF is? I know it's just a distraction from Trump, but....why?
It makes more babies, something the GOP has put front and center. I would assume the families that get IVF are typically more well off, because it costs ~$15k, so that's probably a bonus...?
I just don't get it. I have 4 different friends who have had started families via IVF that otherwise could not.
Somebody please explain to me why these people are so against it now.
It makes more babies, something the GOP has put front and center. I would assume the families that get IVF are typically more well off, because it costs ~$15k, so that's probably a bonus...?
I just don't get it. I have 4 different friends who have had started families via IVF that otherwise could not.
Somebody please explain to me why these people are so against it now.
Stillwater Townie
Deputy
Actually, most people on the left and right are not opposed to IVF by large margins. Probably, though, people who wrote and voted for that Alabama law were too ignorant for it to occur to them that a judge might interpret it as meaning that frozen embryos are the same as children already birthed.
At the federal level House Republicans have wanted to pass a bill that says life begins at conception and is also when human rights begin, but it's also written in an ignorant way, since there is no exception made for IVF. By now, many Republicans in elective office have come to realize that they are so ignorant that they don't know what to think about IVF. Somehow, ignorant laws written by ignorant people must not be passed.
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Stillwater Townie
Deputy
Republicans Increasingly Reveal They Barely Know Where Babies Come From
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/where...o&utm_campaign=Weekender-125&utm_medium=emailStillwater Townie
Deputy
Oklahoma lawmaker on Alabama IVF ruling: ‘This is not the position’ of Republican Party
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...n&cvid=19d32c87820842a29333805035e57219&ei=40
I wish someone would ask him, "How is it not?'
If life begins at conception and that life at a few cells in size is considered more important than the rights of a woman when it is already implanted in her, how is a different conception not given those same rights when it has not yet been implanted in a woman?
They created this shitshow passing all these laws based on those beliefs. But, now that those laws are affecting them and people like them, "Well, hey, that ain't us!"
Seems the Republican position is pro-abortion, as long as the "life" they are extinguishing is not in a woman.
Tennessee GOP blocks IVF protection bill in committee over abortion concerns
www.tennessean.com
Tennessee GOP blocks IVF protection bill in committee over abortion concerns
Republicans on a House subcommittee raised abortion concerns and argued IVF protections are unnecessary, since the procedure isn't currently threatened in Tennessee.
www.tennessean.com
Okstatekerr
Sheriff
Because unfortunately it gets roped into the abortion debate too often. As someone who has went through infertility and had to stop because IVF was too expensive its infuriating.
The primary push of the anti-abortion movement is that human beings begin at conception. They claim that is "science" therefore an abortion is murder.
Well, of course, in IVF multiple embryos typically are conceived. They are frozen. Now, common sense tells us that an embryo that can be frozen is not a human being as we cannot be frozen and revived despite centuries of people trying to figure out how.
But, they are stuck. "Human life begins at conception" works well for their lobbying. But, IVF is something they would not be against other than the pesky problem of hundreds of thousands of "frozen human beings" that they feel have the exact same rights as you. So, many take the position of "Yep, it is a life so we have to stop this 'eugenics' and no more IVF." Others typically who have been affected by infertility in some way, tend to be more like "Yes, life starts at conception, but only for a conception that has implanted in a uterus."
It is just like everything with abortion. It is a difficult conundrum and requires nuance. The concrete thinkers of the world want to make it straight forward and when they do, it always causes traps like this.
The Wild part for me is the Republicans don't even think about it , they create the trap, fall in the Trap and then Defend the Trap because it would require them to admit they were wrong and updo the Trap they created themselves and would show the entire process had a HUGE GLARING absence of Critical Thinking Skills
Stillwater Townie
Deputy
Some Republicans simply tell themselves a frozen embryo isn't fully life until it's in a woman's womb.
Here is a Quandary created by ignorant Republican Lawmakers
This is Gods own words “I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb."
So if an embryo outside the womb and frozen is now considered a child......now does this mean the Dr who joins the Egg and Sperm and harvest the fertilized eggs and freeze them and everyone who is in contact with that embryo outside the womb are now God ?
Because according to the Bible the entity that created you in the womb and knows you beyond the womb before anyone else is God
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Iowa GOP Shelve 'Unborn Person' Bill That Would Have Criminalized IVF
A fetal personhood bill that would have criminalized the death of "unborn persons" was shelved by Iowa Republicans Thursday after concerns about the effect it would have on the legality of In Vitro Fertilization (IVF), following the Alabama Supreme Court decision in February that effectively banned the procedure in that state.The bill, which would have criminalized "causing of death of, or serious injury to, an unborn person," which the bill defined as, "an individual organism of the species homo sapiens from fertilization to live birth," passed the Iowa House last week, but Senate Republicans refused to take up the bill.
Senate Judiciary Committee Chair Brad Zaun did not assign the bill to subcommittee citing potential "unintended consequences" for IVF. During debate on the bill in the House, Iowa Democrats highlighted the Alabama case and the effect fetal personhood laws have on infertile couples in the U.S. who use the IVF procedure to get pregnant. IVF has an 86% approval rating nationally, according to internal polling conducted by Trump campaign advisor Kellyanne Conway.
"The only reason this bill was stopped was because of Iowa Democrats and heroic allies shining light on how this bill would have effectively outlawed IVF in the state, similar to what we saw in Alabama last month,"
125 Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives, including Speaker Mike Johnson, have co-sponsored a bill called the "Life Begins at Conception" bill, which would grant legal personhood to all stages of human life from fertilization, exactly like the Iowa bill. Passage would have the effect of banning IVF nationwide.
But, but, but it's science! It is science that life begins at conception. That is what they have been claiming as the basis for regulating other people.
I guess it is only science for regulating poor people needing an abortion but it is no longer science when it is regulating wealthy people wanting IVF.
We like IVF as long as them US Military Veterans who are Single Women and Gays don't get em!!!
So let me get this straight for the GOP narrative on all of this. "Party of small government"
They want to legislate which Veteran's can chose to have children via IVF based on their Marriage Status or Sexual Preference
Want to restrict any Female Active Duty Veterans who accidently got pregnant or who are facing a non viable pregnancy to be punished if they seek an abortion
Want to punish Active Duty Veterans if they travel beyond the state borders where they are stationed to seek an abortion
BUT will Gladly allow tax payer money to be used to treat Hair Loss and Erectile Dysfunction medications.
All while completely dismantling the idea of Diversity, Equality and Inclusion for all military locations.
In a letter to VA Secretary Denis McDonough, Representatives Matt Rosendale, Bob Good, Mary Miller and Josh Brecheen call IVF — a procedure in which human embryos are fertilized in a laboratory setting and implanted in a woman’s uterus — “morally dubious” and say it “should not be subsidized by the American taxpayer”.
They cite the fact that IVF procedures produce extra fertilised embryos which must be frozen or discarded, a practice which fundamentalist Christians consider tantamount to murder, and call the Veterans’ Affairs’ policy “shocking not only on a moral level but on a political and legal level as well”.
“It appears that either the VA always had this authority and is responding to the appeals of activists or is possibly violating existing law,” they said, citing previous Democratic proposals to specifically enshrine IVF expansions into legislation as evidence that the VA programme is currently unlawful.
“The VA must focus on providing world-class healthcare and benefits to veterans, not trying to remake the nuclear family. We appreciate your attention to this letter and eagerly await your reply,” they said.
The right-wing representatives’ letter comes just weeks after the Alabama Supreme Court stoked controversy and outrage by effectively banning the practice of IVF in the Yellowhammer State, leading legislators there to pass legislation specifically allowing for the procedure to be practised there.
The Independent is the world’s most free-thinking news brand, providing global news, commentary and analysis for the independently-minded. We have grown a huge, global readership of independently minded individuals, who value our trusted voice and commitment to positive change. Our mission, making change happen, has never been as important as it is today.
So let me get this straight for the GOP narrative on all of this. "Party of small government"
They want to legislate which Veteran's can chose to have children via IVF based on their Marriage Status or Sexual Preference
Want to restrict any Female Active Duty Veterans who accidently got pregnant or who are facing a non viable pregnancy to be punished if they seek an abortion
Want to punish Active Duty Veterans if they travel beyond the state borders where they are stationed to seek an abortion
BUT will Gladly allow tax payer money to be used to treat Hair Loss and Erectile Dysfunction medications.
All while completely dismantling the idea of Diversity, Equality and Inclusion for all military locations.
Republicans object to ‘morally dubious’ IVF being offered to unmarried and same-sex couple veterans
A quartet of Republicans want the Department of Veterans Affairs to explain a recent decision to offer In Vitro Fertilization services to veterans who are unmarried or in same-sex relationships, citing “a plethora of ethical concerns and questions” raised by the announcement.In a letter to VA Secretary Denis McDonough, Representatives Matt Rosendale, Bob Good, Mary Miller and Josh Brecheen call IVF — a procedure in which human embryos are fertilized in a laboratory setting and implanted in a woman’s uterus — “morally dubious” and say it “should not be subsidized by the American taxpayer”.
They cite the fact that IVF procedures produce extra fertilised embryos which must be frozen or discarded, a practice which fundamentalist Christians consider tantamount to murder, and call the Veterans’ Affairs’ policy “shocking not only on a moral level but on a political and legal level as well”.
“It appears that either the VA always had this authority and is responding to the appeals of activists or is possibly violating existing law,” they said, citing previous Democratic proposals to specifically enshrine IVF expansions into legislation as evidence that the VA programme is currently unlawful.
“The VA must focus on providing world-class healthcare and benefits to veterans, not trying to remake the nuclear family. We appreciate your attention to this letter and eagerly await your reply,” they said.
The right-wing representatives’ letter comes just weeks after the Alabama Supreme Court stoked controversy and outrage by effectively banning the practice of IVF in the Yellowhammer State, leading legislators there to pass legislation specifically allowing for the procedure to be practised there.
The Independent is the world’s most free-thinking news brand, providing global news, commentary and analysis for the independently-minded. We have grown a huge, global readership of independently minded individuals, who value our trusted voice and commitment to positive change. Our mission, making change happen, has never been as important as it is today.
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Because the electorate no longer holds anyone accountable. We dropped the 1st George Bush for "Read my lips, no new taxes" which is child's play compared to the level of boldface lying that is simply accepted now. This won't hurt him a bit.
More lies:
“I support the ability for mothers and fathers to have total access to IVF and bringing new life into the world. I also believe human life should be protected,” Hyde-Smith said.
At the same time, Alabama lawmakers are scrambling to find ways to protect the treatments. And former President Donald Trump, the front-runner for the GOP presidential nomination, said he would “strongly support the availability of IVF.” Trump called on lawmakers in Alabama to preserve access to the treatment.
Many GOP lawmakers also reinforced their support for IVF services.
Soon after the decision, Alabama Sen. Katie Britt made calls to fellow Republicans, including Trump, to argue for the importance of supporting the treatments, emphasizing that they are pro-life and pro-family, according to a person familiar with the calls.
In a statement after the ruling, Britt said that “defending life and ensuring continued access to IVF services for loving parents are not mutually exclusive.”
Republicans block Senate bill to protect nationwide access to IVF treatments
Senate Republicans have blocked legislation that would protect access to in vitro fertilization, objecting to a vote on the issue Wednesday even after widespread backlash to a recent ruling by the Alabama Supreme Court that threatens the practice.
apnews.com
They know the truth. If undergoing IVF, there are going to be leftover embryos. Some are of lower quality so are not used. But, if they are "human beings" like these politicians claim, we don't get rid of lower-quality born humans. So they are lying by claiming the can "protect life" while allowing IVF. They get away with it because people don't understand the technology. The truth is if you believe that an embryo should have the rights of a person, you cannot support IVF as currently practiced.
This lady was 14+ pts down in the polls to her GOP opponent in a historically red district until this Alabama Supreme Court ruling