US Southern Baptists condemn IVF procedure

[Polds4OSU]

June 12 (Reuters) - The Southern Baptist Convention, the largest Protestant denomination in the U.S., on Wednesday voted to condemn the use of in vitro fertilization, signaling the campaign by evangelicals against abortion is widening to include the popular fertility treatment.
Earlier at its annual meeting, a proposed amendment to the church's constitution that would have banned women as pastors fell just short of the two-thirds majority vote it needed to pass.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-southern-baptists-effort-enshrine-ban-women-pastors-falls-short-2024-06-12/

 

[Polds4OSU]

Does this mean that they think that IVF kids aren't Gods creation and can't go to heaven?

Do they also ban IVF kids from marriage??

 

[Stillwater Townie]

Does this mean that they think that IVF kids aren't Gods creation and can't go to heaven?

Do they also ban IVF kids from marriage??

Maybe they are opposed to IVF, so they won't have to worry about facing such questions before their God. In that case, it's another live and let live matter. If you have fertility issues and IVF is against your religion, then please don't become involved with it.

 

[Polds4OSU]

Maybe they are opposed to IVF, so they won't have to worry about facing such questions before their God. In that case, it's another live and let live matter. If you have fertility issues and IVF is against your religion, then please don't become involved with it.

What I'm saying is if they are opposed bto the procedure then that implies they are also opposed to the outcome and results of that same procedure

So what are the rules for people born via IVF now?

 

[steross]

Unless they decided to worship a different God than they had in the 1970s, this isn't about religion. This is about politics, power, and control:

The Southern Baptist Convention has not always opposed abortion, and Southern Baptists have not always opposed in vitro fertilization. This week’s adoption of an anti-IVF resolution by messengers to the SBC annual meeting represents yet another rightward shift in the nation’s largest Protestant denomination.

Abortion was not a litmus-test issue for Southern Baptists until it became a political wedge issue for Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority in the 1970s. Notable SBC pastors — including W.A. Criswell of First Baptist Church in Dallas — publicly stated support for abortion in early stages of pregnancy and in case of rape, incest and deformity.

That all changed with the rise of the Religious Right, which identified abortion as a rallying cry after the racism of white Christians became unfashionable. The U.S. Supreme Court handed Falwell and company a megaphone with the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion up to a certain point.

Here’s what you need to know to understand that SBC resolution opposing IVF – Baptist News Global

Within the SBC, the abortion debate tagged along with the “conservative resurgence” — which allegedly was about biblical inerrancy — to hitch the denomination not only to the Republican Party but to the anti-abortion crusade.

baptistnews.com

 

[steross]

Their 1977 resolution on the subject is similar to how I feel about it:

Resolution On Abortion - SBC.net

RESOLVED that this Convention reaffirm the strong stand against abortion adopted by the 1976 Convention, and, in view of some confusion in interpreting part of this resolution we confirm our strong opposition to abortion on demand and all governmental policies and actions which permit this. The...

www.sbc.net

RESOLVED that this Convention reaffirm the strong stand against abortion adopted by the 1976 Convention, and, in view of some confusion in interpreting part of this resolution we confirm our strong opposition to abortion on demand and all governmental policies and actions which permit this.

The 1976 resolution on abortion is as follows:

WHEREAS, Southern Baptists have historically held a biblical view of the sanctity of human life, and

WHEREAS, Abortion is a very serious moral and spiritual problem of continuing concern to the American people, and

WHEREAS, Christians have a responsibility to deal with all moral and spiritual issues which affect society, including the problems of abortion, and

WHEREAS, The practice of abortion for selfish non-therapeutic reasons wantonly destroys fetal life, dulls our society’s moral sensitivity, and leads to a cheapening of all human life.

Therefore be it RESOLVED, that the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention meeting in Norfolk in June, 1976 reaffirm the biblical sacredness and dignity of all human life, including fetal life, and

Be it further RESOLVED, that we call on Southern Baptists and all citizens of the nation to work to change those attitudes and conditions which encourage many people to turn to abortion as a means of birth control, and

Be it further RESOLVED, that in the best interest of our society, we reject any indiscriminate attitude toward abortion, as contrary to the biblical view, and

Be it further RESOLVED, that we also affirm our conviction about the limited role of government in dealing with matters relating to abortion, and support the right of expectant mothers to the full range of medical services and personal counseling for the preservation of life and health.)

 

[cowboyinexile]

Does this mean that they think that IVF kids aren't Gods creation and can't go to heaven?

Do they also ban IVF kids from marriage??

It's not about the IVF kids. It's about the embryos that are unused. If you believe all life begins at conception it's consistent.

Personally I never gave it much thought until my ex wife and I were struggling to conceive a second child. We looked into it and started the process (got my swimmers looked at-stuff like that) but fortunately were able to conceive naturally early in the process. It felt weird for me when we were discussing it with the medical staff-they made it pretty clear what was going to happen. The thought of me having potential children stuck in a freezer somewhere or just chucked out like the trash was something I struggled with. I don't have any clear answers one way or the other but I can get how someone who is truly pro life and not just anti abortion can have serious reservations about the technology.

 

[Polds4OSU]

It's not about the IVF kids. It's about the embryos that are unused. If you believe all life begins at conception it's consistent.

Personally I never gave it much thought until my ex wife and I were struggling to conceive a second child. We looked into it and started the process (got my swimmers looked at-stuff like that) but fortunately were able to conceive naturally early in the process. It felt weird for me when we were discussing it with the medical staff-they made it pretty clear what was going to happen. The thought of me having potential children stuck in a freezer somewhere or just chucked out like the trash was something I struggled with. I don't have any clear answers one way or the other but I can get how someone who is truly pro life and not just anti abortion can have serious reservations about the technology.

The hardcore Baptist I know when I ask about this subject point me to Jerimiah 1:5

They tell me that God only knows children that were formed IN THE MOTHERS WOMB and only GOD can form a child in a womans womb.....and any child conceived/created etc outside of the womb is NOT a child of God but a Man made abomination.

I've lost Baptist friends over this scripture and them insisting that these IVF kids are NOT God's Creations and me insisting they are full of crap.

while I do understand and get your point, NOT ALL Baptist are arguing the same reason to Condemn IVF here.

 

[cowboyinexile]

The hardcore Baptist I know when I ask about this subject point me to Jerimiah 1:5

They tell me that God only knows children that were formed IN THE MOTHERS WOMB and only GOD can form a child in a womans womb.....and any child conceived/created etc outside of the womb is NOT a child of God but a Man made abomination.

I've lost Baptist friends over this scripture and them insisting that these IVF kids are NOT God's Creations and me insisting they are full of crap.

while I do understand and get your point, NOT ALL Baptist are arguing the same reason to Condemn IVF here.

What do you think they are arguing then? I'm curious because outside of my experience I'm not sure what the argument is.

 

[Polds4OSU]

What do you think they are arguing then? I'm curious because outside of my experience I'm not sure what the argument is.

I've had one person tell me point blank that IVF and Test Tube babies are abominations created of man made scientific evil and they can not enter heaven, they are not Gods children, and they shouldn't be allowed to marry Christians as they can't be saved and argued that this was the position of all Baptists.

Which I KNOW is incorrect as I know a SBC preacher and his wife who are currently and have been undergoing IVF in attempts to get pregnant for years now.

And he and his wife were DEVESTATED yesterday by the SBC vote, but he posted that while he did not agree with the ruling he would respect it. I don't know if that means he an his wife are going to stop trying IVF now or not. They've already adopted 2 kids, but really wanted one of their own.

I have a great friend who did an Ancestry DNA test, it popped up he had 30+ Siblings (now over 40 siblings 3 years later). When he confronted his mother she denied at first, but after a while admitted she had participated in a program in the early 80's at Baylor Univ (Baptist University) where they were doing IVF treatments as part of testing and that he was a product of that.

So I know not all Baptist are against it as Baylor University IS currently and HAS been one of the PREMIER IVF research centers in the WORLD since the 70's

1. IVF Program: Baylor Medicine’s IVF program has celebrated over 1,700 IVF babies. In IVF, eggs are surgically retrieved, fertilized outside the body, and then placed in the woman’s uterus, bypassing the fallopian tubes2.
2. Legacy of Dr. J. Michael Putman: Dr. Putman, a prominent figure in fertility care, was associated with Baylor Hospital from 1977 to 19853.

 

[Polds4OSU]

Here is a currently list of a Baptist Baylor University list of Services for IVF and Fertility treatments.

IMHO----and I could be WAY off base, 100% personal opinion

I'm pretty sure that SBC didn't really have ANY issue with it, until the part i Highlighted below became a Reality.. I think THAT is the ROOT of the SBC's objection to IVF as it is a process that allows Gay couples to have children, and they fundamentally reject that idea 100%...I think THIS is the REAL ROOT of the SBC rejection fo the IVF Process.

They already consider gay people as sexually impure as the SBC President made very clear in the 2011 meeting. I think the root is that a child can come from a process that is done by people they consider to be sexually impure and against Gods will and Thus see that product and that process as Evil and unpure.

 

[Donnyboy]

When dealing with people that believe donkeys talk and you can live in a fish for days logic does not apply.

 

[Polds4OSU]

When dealing with people that believe donkeys talk and you can live in a fish for days logic does not apply.

My Pastor in Bible study when someone starts to allude to these events as real and not just clever stories that convey messages and lessons...he starts yelling "PICUTRE LANGUAGE" "PICTURE LANGUAGE"

I've been to many Baptist churches and grew up in a Pentacostal church. I do not ever remember anyone in either of those churches ever saying that these could just be stories to convey a message or lesson and weren't describing actual events. I didn't hear that until I went to a Lutheran Church in my 30's

 

[Stillwater Townie]

When dealing with people that believe donkeys talk and you can live in a fish for days logic does not apply.

And that snakes in a garden can talk. Speaking as an agnostic, neither does it make much sense that God knew everybody before they were born. If true, why did God let so many great sinful, evil people be born, such as Hitler? If it's in God will making some pregnant women fatally ill to keep them from bringing forth evil to the world, then He has been doing a mighty poor, neglectful job of it.

For women who can't get pregnant normally, probably Baptists think such women should be thankful to God for saving their lives. He sensed such women would bring forth evil to the world and made them infertile, rather than trying to kill them with a fatal pregnancy.

 

[Verbal]

The hardcore Baptist I know when I ask about this subject point me to Jerimiah 1:5

They tell me that God only knows children that were formed IN THE MOTHERS WOMB and only GOD can form a child in a womans womb.....and any child conceived/created etc outside of the womb is NOT a child of God but a Man made abomination.

I've lost Baptist friends over this scripture and them insisting that these IVF kids are NOT God's Creations and me insisting they are full of crap.

while I do understand and get your point, NOT ALL Baptist are arguing the same reason to Condemn IVF here.

Have you asked them how god determines who is born healthy and who is going to be born with disabilities that will cause a lifetime of pain and hardship?

 

[Polds4OSU]

BREAKING: Despite claiming to support IVF, Senate Republicans blocked my Right to IVF Act.

This is the third time they've blocked legislation to protect IVF nationwide.
https://www.threads.net/@senduckwor...QGzRTjTRsNBwN_OaTK7CqoKoQCkUStkq7CAq5EsD8FCpA

Senate Republicans just blocked a Democratic bill to protect access to IVF. Just minutes after meeting with Trump. They are all aligned on this issue.

The Republican Party has one goal - total control. Women today across America are suffering because of MAGA's draconian laws on reproductive rights.

The Lincoln Project (@lincolnproject.us) on Threads

Senate Republicans just blocked a Democratic bill to protect access to IVF. Just minutes after meeting with Trump. They are all aligned on this issue. The Republican Party has one goal - total control. Women today across America are suffering because of MAGA's draconian laws on reproductive rights.

www.threads.net

 

[Stillwater Townie]

The Christian Right also doesn't approve of divorce. However, some people would have never existed as who they are if a woman thought she had to get married because she missed a period. But it turned out that it was just a missed period, not also a pregnancy. So, if the woman then has second thoughts and doesn't really love her new husband and wants a divorce, her Baptist parents will likely forbid it. They can likely look forward to having grandchildren that wouldn't be if they didn't forbid the divorce.

The Christian right is coming for divorce next

Some conservatives want to make it a lot harder to dissolve a marriage.

www.vox.com