This.
It's sad that Trump is so bad when we have things like this, that would have been looked at as Trump is now of this was 15 years ago.
US continues to go forward
- Thread starter JTOSU
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It's sad that Trump is so bad when we have things like this, that would have been looked at as Trump is now of this was 15 years ago.
The "there's not a thing anyone in the world can do about it" part was pretty weird.
But is there a level of patriotism that you're comfortable with? It feels like it's en vogue to be a self loathing American hyper-focused on all the wrong the United States has done in the past. When is it okay to appreciate that Western-style liberal democracies are still in a position of (very fragile) power over authoritarian dictatorships?
I mean those countries he listed aren't exactly beacons of human rights.
If the post was 85 years ago and said "Look at the board. Germany's economy is being eaten alive from the inside. Japan's growth is low. Italy can't fuel an airplane...The US is operating from a position of strength!" would it be so weird?
Anyway. America!
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Well, it was a single sentence. I wasn't claiming, "If Trump were the ideal president, this is exactly what I would want him to say." What I am saying is compared to the usual drivel we hear from that side about this war strategy (listen to anything from the secretary of war) I thought this was better stated.
I'm honestly pretty shocked that all I did was post a different perspective, one I even stated was somewhat hyperbolic but don't have the knowledge to agree or disagree with the actual points only to be attacked like this. I was hoping someone could say, "Well, this is inaccurate because China had XXXXX" but instead just bland partisan attacks. Essentially doing the other side of what is whined about.
Patriotism in this country has been sold to the highest bidder. I love my country. Patriotism to me is caring enough to understand we aren't better or worse than other countries. We have major problems that need to be fixed and spouting that we have no rival is just the opposite of that to me.
I also posted an opinion and you acted like I attacked you which is something that MAGA does. I didn't say you were wrong. I posted my opinion like you did.
I mean I think it's fine to think we're better than the countries in question.
Good point!
Are really though? We've been killing outlets own citizens for years and has gotten worse under Trump. He's trying to act just like Putin. I see us as the same right now as them.
I probably could have used my words better.
The United States is the same as Russia right now. That is a heavy, heavy anti-American bias, sir.
I know it ain't perfect and Trump absolutely sucks. But calm down. Jeezth.
You are always welcome to post a different perspective and have a different opinion than me or anyone else here. My post was not intended as an attack. My point is: Sure, that statement by Bill Brindley is more polished than Trumps usual nonsense, but it still misses the mark by a mile and has the same problematic worldview that is behind at least a part of Trump's. People that think they are special are some of the worst people to interact with in my experience. Its no different with countries.
Jingoism directly impacts the amount of foreign adventurism and death overseas, which also leads to harm at home. There is a litany of evidence at this point and it isn't just when the US does it.
I hoped that someone could refute or confirm his actual points not the way it was said regarding the Russian and Chinese economies, strategic alliances etc.
https://www.reddit.com/r/okc/s/JJgqlF6INcAre you proud to be an American, bro!? That's a microcosm, bro! You better check your privilege!
Yay our corruption is better than the other countries corruption.
Man I know we aren't THAT bad but I don't know how much good we have really done in the world in the post WW2 era. Don't take me the wrong way as we have done a lot of good but a bunch of it has been in our best interests. Take Iran for example-best thing we could have done with them was leave them alone back in the 50's. But they wanted to nationalize their oil industry and we couldn't have that. Then we screwed with them for 25 years until they turned to a charismatic nutcase and suddenly now the current conflict is their fault for hating us for so long.
Heck you go back before that we have a war with Spain that we orchestrated because we wanted imperial overseas territory. We dared Mexico to go to war with us because we wanted California and in the end we only took that plus the lesser populated parts of their country because places like Mexico City had too many brown people living in it. We committed genocide on the indigenous population to get the territory we wanted.
Again don't take this the wrong way. Ill be happy if my kids make it to adulthood with all their fingers the way we celebrate the 4th and Im damn glad I was born here instead of any place in the world but we do have a lot of red ink on our ledger.
Totally agree with all that.
But may I introduce you to the entirety of human civilization history? It’s bloody and for the most part f***ing terrible.
We can admit all of the awful things our government has done. But which empire would you pick as better? What era was better?
Zoom out.
Really none. And you make a good point-in viewing this from our current perspective things like wiping out civilizations or promoting slavery for decades seems horrific but it's hard to question if they were morally acceptable in that era or if we just had charismatic monsters as leaders. It's why I don't hold certain events that are deplorable now (for example Washington and Jefferson owning slaves) against otherwise decent men in their era. Im sure many of us told jokes or did things as teenagers that we would never do now as society has evolved.
However if you are going to use that as justification for our current behavior you have to apply the same standard to other nations. I think we can all say Russia invading Ukraine is wrong and the world would be better off if they left them alone. But how come it's been ok for stronger states to invade their neighbors for millenia and suddenly as of February 2022 it's morally bad? Can't Putin just use the logic of Rome, Greece, Britain, heck Russia has been doing it for thousands of years and that's just one continent but suddenly we're the problem?
It's hard to draw a line between a justified and unjust conflict when the winners have been justifying their actions ever since some cavemen thought the tribe over the hill looked at them funny.
We are in the safest era of Human history. But stop looking so damn Macro. We have so many people hurting in this country and all we have for them is either pick yourself up by the bootstrap or ignore them. It BS we haven't done better than we have because we as humans are essentially sycophants that don't demand better from our leaders and continuously elect corrupt people because we care so much about Effing prrception instead of the effing truth.
Sorry @Bowers3 im not trying to rail against you at all. Not of this is at you personally. But this is what bothers me about the moderates. They act Like because it's better now we don't need to talk about the problems as much. And that's to me is one of the biggest reasons why there is so much suffering still in the world. We would rather just live and ignore the bad things because they don't affect us. I get it. But at the same time if we would just do the things we need then we would all be able to just enjoy instead of those fortunate to live like that at this point in history.
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